Dog With Consistently Runny Tummy

[kamuzz]

Veli came to live with us at the beginning of March, when he was 13 months old. He is an English Setter. His breeder was selling him because he wasn't cutting it as a show dog.

He hadn't seen a vet - there was no need. And because there was a pet shop in the family, he had been fed lots of different kinds of dry food. (Whatever was going out of date; had damaged packaging etc.)

My other two dogs are on ProPlan so we started Veli on the same food. He developed a runny tummy, which we attributed to the change in environment/food. A few days on chicken and rice seemed to clear it so back on his usual food. But then another episode of runny tummy. So off to the vet we went. And this pattern has been repeated over and over again.

And we haven't found a solution yet, and are getting more worried about Veli. For a while Metronidazole seemed to help. The vet thought it might be a food allergy so he suggested feeding Hills Science Z/D. Veli is now on his third bag with no improvement...

Veli has had blood taken to test his liver and kidney function with no abnormal results.

Apparently our next step is to have a ultra-sound which may lead to a biopsy.

I'm hoping the DOL brains trust will have a suggestion for me?

[persephone]

yep- ditch the processed food ..try him on chicken or some other raw(majority of meal) ..with rice (brown)and some cooked sweet potato and some probiotics. See how he goes on that for a few days ..ten maybe gradually add different meats/bones , .... There are all sorts of things he could be reacting to - including grains/colourings /fats....preservatives ...

[Salukifan]

PM Erny. She is the person I'd want to talk to in this situation.

The fact that the runs clear up on chicken and rice suggests to me that the right diet will sort this.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Scottsmum]

I'd be leaving him on what ever gives him solid poos while you try and sort it out - e.g. if Z/D is giving him the trots its got no more value to it then cardboard. If you're getting solid poos from chicken and rice - start there. Nothing worse then constantly having the trots. ;)

Scottie gets the squirts on a number of foods. One of the only non-squirt meals here is a (particular brand and flavour) supermarket wet food or raw chicken mince mixed with a little dry + an inner health plus (which I remove from the capsule)

A few other things I've picked up with my first ever reactive and fussy dog:

*read as much as possible here and other places - as much time as you can spare - read - everything you can lay your eyes on

*Find that base food that works for your dog and dont worry too much about going back to it often - low nutritional meals like white rice and chicken are by far better then the runs

*get a double and triple opinion - if the bloods and other tests are clear try looking for a nutritionist who might be able to help

*practice good hygiene - yes - I know they're dogs. Yes it probably more for me but I wash Scotties bowl immediately in hot soapy water when he's done with it. Remove any left over food, chuck anything which is dubious. I very strictly subscribe to "if I wont eat it, nether will he' (especially with left overs - not so much on the supermarket wet which he loves...)

Good luck :) Hopefully Erny or others will be a bit more help than I. (Erny did have a great post /update the other day)

[Dogsfevr]

I have ES and they can be sensitive to foods,my boy would get the runs once a month until i found a diet that suited .

Although i my first port of call would be a bowen or chiro ,

Dogs can pull muscles which can result in the runs & stomach spasms

When Proplan was still made in the US that is what i feed my ES ,now its made in Australia found it to be useless & dogs had issues .

Have you put him on a pro biotic ??

What other foods does he get ,treats

[HappyCamper]

I had a greyhound that had constant runs I put him on a grain free food and it cleared up, I also gave him chicken frames once a day.

[VizslaMomma]

Veli has had blood taken to test his liver and kidney function with no abnormal results.

Apparently our next step is to have a ultra-sound which may lead to a biopsy.

I'm hoping the DOL brains trust will have a suggestion for me?

Before going to the radical step of a biopsy, maybe also consider getting a full thyroid panel done. There may be issues there.

Rather than go on, please conside looking at posts by Erny. They have documented on here what steps they took with their dog that had issues.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/user/5887-erny/

With luck, Erny will see the thread & help too.

There's a chance of immune issues that correct diagnosis should help.

Hugs to Veli and I hope he recovers quickly.

ETA Erny has already been suggested :)

Edited June 15, 2014 by VizslaMomma

[RuralPug]

What everyone else has said...if he clears up on chicken and rice, then it is the food itself that is causing a problem with him. One commercial food can be great for Dog A but useless for Dog B.

You have been to the vet repeatedly and no long lasting joy so is probably not bacterial or structural.

I would first try probiotics, just in case his internal fauna is lacking, if that doesn't work then it's diet changes until you find what is right for him. And I would probably start with a grain free, if you prefer to feed kibble.

Surely you have already asked his breeder what they were feeding him?

[kamuzz]

Let me try and answer everyone's questions:

We have tried adding yoghurt to his food for just over 3 weeks - made no difference.

He gets his Z/D morning and night, and a chicken wing on a weekday morning. No other treats / food.

It will be interesting to try chicken and rice for longer than a few days to see if it was just co-incidence that his tummy seemed to clear up. On the Z/D now, he will have a few OK days and then the loose poo starts up again.

RuralPug, the breeder gave him whatever food was available from their pet shop so lots of different foods.

Is this the sort of probiotic being suggested?

[JulesP]

Has his pancreas been checked? Poo checked for parasites?

The fact Metronidazole was working makes me think this isn't a food allergy. Antibiotics don't do much for allergies.

Could also be IBD.

[Airedaler]

I would give him some slippery elm. Might need a few doses and if it is just a funny tummy without anything more serious behind it then it could help it fairly soon.

[Scottsmum]

Let me try and answer everyone's questions:

We have tried adding yoghurt to his food for just over 3 weeks - made no difference.

... ... ...

Is this the sort of probiotic being suggested?

I use this for Scottie - http://innerhealth.com.au/content/product/inner-health-plus-dairy-free

Yoghurt makes no change to him + he will sometimes refuse it. Hasn't refused this yet. (I open the capsule and mix it in his wet. One tablet, most days. 10 kilo foxie.)

[nedsur]

I have a boy that used to get loose stools until I tried him on a grain free food. Catch of the Wild Salmon. Now all good. We did try several brands with no success including pro plan sensitive.

[RuralPug]

.

RuralPug, the breeder gave him whatever food was available from their pet shop so lots of different foods.

Is this the sort of probiotic being suggested?

Ooops...selective memory on my part. Presumably he didn't have the runs at the breeders, so something has changed. It might be gut fauna and yoghurt doesn't always contain the right ones - best of the yoghurts is all natural with a preponderance of the live bifidus but a purpose made probiotic is way better.

I am not familiar with that brand of probiotics, but yes, that is the type of thing I am recommending. I can personally recommend the Protexin powder.

It might not be missing gut fauna that is causing the issue, but a good probiotic can't do any harm and is worth a try.

[kamuzz]

Yes he has been checked for pancreatitis.

Funny you should mention parasites, JulesP. There is no evidence of worms and he is on Sentinel. But to make sure, the vet is ordering in another wormer - fenbendazole - because previously they've had dogs where the first sign of worms was the ultrasound. So now they worm as "standard practise" when dealing with this sort of issue.

Airedaler, I should have put in my original post that I tried slippery elm on him when we first got him. But it didn't seem to make any difference and there was another poster on here who said it was bad to give slippery elm long term. (Although maybe we need to define what long term means?)

[nowstarin]

Have you checked for Giardia?

[_PL_]

:) I've had more than a couple with dodgey tummies. And elimination diets and z/d, roo etc etc are a looong loooong road. If I can just suggest my now first-in-line diet test.... and it may not be everybody's first choice.

Start a 2 - 4wk trial with barf, I use 'combo'. Just barf. Absolutely not even a crumb of biscuit, no fish, no egg, no dairy, nothing else. Treats: Only meaty bone with no fat and limited marrow.

A little sweet potato for the dogs who need more fibre.

If that works you just get a bit more adventurous from there. Get an upset - strike it off the list.

And have a tube of Prokolin+ paste on hand (I have to get mine from the UK, it passes customs no problem)

[teekay]

Lots of good advice on here. I had a similar problem with my puppy when I bought him home. Not sure exactly what cleared things up for him but I'll tell you what we did anyway.

At the first sign of a runny bum he went on the chicken and rice but one of the mistakes I think we were making was, once he seemed better we swapped straight back to the kibble (it was Black Hawk at the time) he would be ok for a day then get sloppy poos again. After receiving advice we put him back on the chicken and rice then once better, reintroduced the kibble very very slowly over a week and a half to two weeks just adding a little bit more kibble and reducing the chicken and rice each time. We also used a probiotic we got from the vets. Would probably just use inner health plus now but didn't know at the time. We did also change his food to Nutro.

He is now on a mainly raw diet. RMBs for breakfast and Leading Raw patties for dinner. He rarely gets an upset tummy anymore, unless he eats a load of moo poo that we put down the weekend

Actually someone did ask when he was getting the runs whether he could be eating any bird/duck poo in the garden. Could that be a possibility with your dog?

Hope you find out what's going on with him soon.

[kamuzz]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

This is what I've done so far:

Today I bought some Wellness Ocean and I'll gradually swap him over to this.

And I would probably start with a grain free, if you prefer to feed kibble.

and also got a bottle of this. It says one tablet for an adult, so I'm guessing one tablet for a 23 kg dog should be OK.

I use this for Scottie -

http://innerhealth.com.au/content/product/inner-health-plus-dairy-freeYoghurt

makes no change to him + he will sometimes refuse it. Hasn't refused this yet. (I open the capsule and mix it in his wet. One tablet,

most

days. 10 kilo foxie.)

Powerlegs, I'll hold onto your suggestion for round 2. It is difficult to feed bones in a multi-dog household, when one dog isn't supposed to have bones.

It will take some time before we can see if these changes have a positive effect, so now I have to be patient.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I've had a dog with Inflammatory Bowel Disease, he had to be on Ultra ZD and meds, it was a lengthy time for diagnosis - special diets etc etc. Finally an endoscopy which gave the answer.

You could try just the ZD diet, that's good for a lot of dogs with dodgy tums.