Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 There's another example when she asks the dog for a sit and visibly yanks it in position with the halter. I'm just confused about how she keeps on harping on about letting the dog make choices, but then puts the dog in a situation where it can't make any choice (being held head up tight on the halter). The dog made the choice to do its own thing (go after the balls or ignore the boss) and there was a consequence for that. SG talks about positive is not permissive. If she didn't redirect the dog into the sit - and allowed it to go after the balls - that's permissive and self reinforcing for the dog and you get more bad behaviour. It's a controlled environment - the dog has to be able to get it right there, before you could trust it off lead somewhere it could make a choice to "go play in the traffic" which is what LOH's GR would do. The dog wasn't overly upset about being stopped. And once it got some understanding about what choices were good choices, it was much happier. If a dog learns that acting sad or upset or stressed or frustrated - gets it more of what it wants right now - it's going to do more of that. My dog does. In the wider picture, a dog allowed to get its way when stressed instead of learning to deal with the stress, gets much less freedom because it can't be trusted to make good choices. There's stressed or frustrated and there's completely freaked out - the GR was not completely freaked out. And completely freaked out would not be asked to do that demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 She's put all the videos up again if you want to watch again. http://www.brilliantrecalls.com/fe/68435-video-1-recallers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I've joined up! I am really hoping it will give Del and I some much needed direction in the coming months :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Brilliant! Make sure you come and find us all on there :) Just played some crate games with my two - using a wire crate for Em and the soft crate for Zig. I will swap over once they start to get it. Em has done crate games as a demo dog in one of my classes where she never puts a paw wrong. But at home with all the distractions of her normal life she was quite awful :laugh: I helped her out too much at the beginning and then she was throwing behaviours in the crate like you wouldn't believe - drop, spin and play dead after which she just BARKED in frustration. It was nice to say "ah well" and switch to Zig who has done very little but picked it up fairly quickly. She finally got it but I had to watch what I was rewarding as she would spin, then sit, then shuffle backwards. Zig and I started playing "you're out, you're in" although I'm not sure where that comes into the levels. Did a bit more IYC (cheese on paws) with Zig whilst Em was barking and he was a Spotted star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gila Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 She's put all the videos up again if you want to watch again. http://www.brilliantrecalls.com/fe/68435-video-1-recallers Argh! I watched all the videos and now I want in! My dog is nearly 13 though and has been mostly trained with luring. I know it's not "too late" for him, but he is a creature of habit and im worried that he wont pick things up as easily as a dog 'starting fresh'. Also, I would only be able to use an iPad to access the course, would that be a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue & Waldo Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I am using an Ipad. No problems thus far - although the human operator can forget she is on an Ipad when watching tennis in the early hours of the morning! Take the plunge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Well I got the last chance email.... I clicked on the link ad, given that it is < $200 for repeaters, I signed up again. I'm atill doing the handling 360 course too / I don't know where I'll find the time :-). Fergs and Lucy will enjoy it, no doubt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 he wont pick things up as easily as a dog 'starting fresh'. Probably not. Nothing like starting at 4 weeks with the puppy you bred yourself - working on building tolerance to frustration and persistence in learning new things. But you can do these things with an older dog - and every year SG gets better at working out how to get the rest of us to make progress in the right direction with our dogs that have not had her dogs' upbringing. And it will be fabulous info to have for your next dog and any other dog you meet along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Brilliant! Make sure you come and find us all on there :) Thanks :) I think I found you on the map and have put myself up on the map too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 And we're up and running! Em is cracking me up at the moment with what is, I suspect, an extinction burst of frustration barking :laugh: She went bonkers a couple of times in her crate today when I was training Zig but I just put a blanket over her. I usually ask for a few tricks for her dinner and tonight she barked a high pitched bark in my ear which she never does…luckily she's small enough to pick up and pop in her crate. It took 3 attempts at feeding her before I could release her but it was good for both of us :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I started the foster Bella on the 'it's yer choice' base game (cookies/treats in your hand) - it took her two goes of coming forward and licking my hand to realise that if I sit back here a bit, I will get them. So I put them on the floor and she just sat there looking at them and then at me.. I think this girl will be a quick study. That was a no brainer for Zig - he already waits at the door, waits for his food and leaves food unless given the OK to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue & Waldo Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Can someone tell me what the "Your 'H' is on the record sheets is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Can someone tell me what the "Your 'H' is on the record sheets is? Your "habitat" :) It hasn't stopped raining here so our habitat has been the living room. If it clears up tomorrow just a tiny bit I will work them on the deck or downstairs. Still no dog car so can't take them on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) I started the foster Bella on the 'it's yer choice' base game (cookies/treats in your hand) - it took her two goes of coming forward and licking my hand to realise that if I sit back here a bit, I will get them. So I put them on the floor and she just sat there looking at them and then at me.. I think this girl will be a quick study. That was a no brainer for Zig - he already waits at the door, waits for his food and leaves food unless given the OK to have it. Fantastic! Sounds like it's time to ramp it up! Add super amazing treats, add some movement (dropping treats on the ground from on high) and try recalling them past the treats! Also, try setting them up and pretend to drop something whilst you're not officially training - I found that did their head in. Also 2 dogs together took it off the richter scale for Em. Then I added the cats into the mix - the extra competition really challenged her. Ask for a sit/drop/stand and then throw treats around them. Also change your own position - sitting on the floor for example. As you continue to build value for treats you might find the IYC games take on a different meaning for your dogs too. Edited June 30, 2014 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Zig already does all that - runs past treats, leaves them until given command. His super, best thing in the world is his tennis ball.. I have him recalling and running over the top of his tennis ball (that I drop half way between him and I when I walk away). It is harder with two dogs on totally different levels :) I will ramp it up for Bella tomorrow and see how she goes. Zig is going to be a challenge. He was supposed to do is CCD assessment last weekend but we didn't do it, as he won't sit stay for the whole minute - he keeps laying down right at the 'return to your dog' command.. His drop stay is perfect.. This has been an ongoing challenge this whole term (and is what failed us last assessment day).. I am going to get him a mat and take it out with us and get him to sit stay on that - I need to build that solid sit stay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Maybe use IYC for his sit stay then? Use the cue he lies down on - verbal cue? Your movement? Someone else's movement? Start close and add distance. I often find stay failures are actually a lack of understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 It isn't a lack of understanding.. The bugger will do them at home, at the off leash park (I use the park to train under distraction) and the town park, without breaking. Get him to our training ground and he just won't do it.. He is a bit challenging. Even if I am standing directly in front go him at training, he still lays down.. He only started it about half way through our first ccd term and has kept it up most of the time since. Every now and then he will stay sitting but mostly in class and at assessment, he lays down. I was going to pose this problem on the SG chat and see if anyone has any ideas. Our instructors and myself are totally out of ideas. I am hoping the relationship building, doing more frequent, small sessions will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue & Waldo Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I spoke to someone who had the same issue. They solved it by putting the dog in his crate as soon as he broke. No frog march or any punishment. Just ok you don't want to play by the rules you can't play. It didn't take very long to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Staffyluv, could it be a bit of anxiety/increased distraction about the sheer number of dogs at training? What S & W suggested could really work but I would work through a lot of the games first as they all involve some element of choice and consequence. If he likes to tug that could also help. Em had a sensationally "bad rehearsal" last night. Dizzy the Wondercat (who either has opposable thumbs OR is an unrecognised genius) managed to open the kitchen cupboard and then remove the lid from the tupperware type container full of cat food He shared his spoils with Em who, if IYC crossed her mind at all, had a "OH MY DOG I CHOOSE TO EAT CAT BISCUITS!!!" moment. I was seriously grumpy with them and was quite ready to toss them outside in the cold so I had a glass of red wine and laughed at their ingenuity instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah82 Posted July 1, 2014 Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 does everyone else only have access to the Collar Grab Game so far? I thought another game might be up by now but possibly it's a time zone issue and I just have to wait The collar grab game is great for Sarah, she doesn't like her collar being grabbed and generally either backs up or rushes forward if I need to grab her for anything, so we'll be spending a bit of time on this one. Also I've come across Natures Gift soft kibble to use as treats. I was about to get the Natures Gift 'Mini Treats' but after some investigating it's the same stuff as the normal kibble which of course is a lot cheaper :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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