Susan Garrett Recallers Online Course

[fbaudry]

Hey guys..... I caught the first two free videos and was hoping to catch up on the other two today but they seem gone. Am I doing something wrong or are they really gone now that registration is open (and really can't afford it right now :-( )?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

try this one for the egg and bacon poodle boy training session - or how to do IYC properly

http://www.brilliantrecalls.com/fe/68309-live-online-learning-session

It's 2 hours all up I think - that was yesterdays' live coaching call. It does have a wobbly start but gets going properly if you're patient. They had thunderstorms which messed with their recording and internet.

and here for the 4th promo video.

http://www.brilliantrecalls.com/sp/30004-test-sales-page?t=f6047896

I am signed up but I copied those links from IE - where I'm not "logged in".

I log in to the sites with firefox...

Hope that helps. I think they will only be up for the next couple of days.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[fbaudry]

Thank you Mrs Rusty Bucket!

It does work.... And makes me want to max the credit card!

[Leah82]

registration closes in 47 hours!

So Saturday around midday depending on what state your in

[Leah82]

Thank you Mrs Rusty Bucket!

It does work.... And makes me want to max the credit card!

The worst part is not knowing when she's going to doing it again, the last one was 18 months ago and that's a long time in doggy years.

Unfortunately I didn't have the will power to hold off this time

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Registration closes

Toronto (Canada - Ontario) Friday, 27 June 2014 at 11:55:00 PM EDT UTC-4 hours

Adelaide (Australia - South Australia) Saturday, 28 June 2014 at 1:25:00 PM ACST UTC+9:30 hours

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

If you've joined - bookmark the time converter - you will need it for coaching calls...

[The Spotted Devil]

Good idea - I will set the world clock on my iPhone!

Oh I had so much fun today with IYC. I have done it before but I really pushed the two of them today - cheese on paws, dropping cheese from on high. They also both know the collar grab game but Em never wears a collar so I reviewed that as well. Have realised I really need to work on crate games - the frustrated BARKING from Em when it wasn't her turn She was really, really feral and this from a dog that rarely barks. I have it all on tape too I will get the metal crate out tomorrow.

[J...]

this is the link - it's linked off a Susan Garrett Facebook post or if you've handed over your email - then you probably got an email about it.

An email, or a dozen? And that's for Recallers alone in June, it doesn't include PP or H360 emails.

Good idea - I will set the world clock on my iPhone!

Oh I had so much fun today with IYC. I have done it before but I really pushed the two of them today - cheese on paws, dropping cheese from on high. They also both know the collar grab game but Em never wears a collar so I reviewed that as well. Have realised I really need to work on crate games - the frustrated BARKING from Em when it wasn't her turn She was really, really feral and this from a dog that rarely barks. I have it all on tape too I will get the metal crate out tomorrow.

I reckon I can top the noise level, I video nearly all my training sessions now and review them later. The whining and yodelling I get from the merley one while I watch my training videos is incredible I need to work on it big time because he's going to get thrown out of the next handling seminar I do... 4 months to fix it!!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

You know those experiments where the pigeon pushs a button or a bar to get the treat...

I think I am that for my dog. So when nothing happens - the amount of fuss she makes is amazing. Poodle boy was quite polite really. Mine could break ear drums. But she's fast learner. She doesn't understand why she must pretend she's forgotten about the treats / dinner but she's added that to her trick offerings...

[The Spotted Devil]

Heh heh. Love it.

One thing I have picked up on.....when I walk Em out the front door or from the car to do retrieving I ask her to walk "with me." This is not a formal heel - she needs to walk in a relaxed manner by my side but look forward in case a bird flushes. However, because she knows that she will do some sort of retrieve (even a drill) at the end she can't help but dance half a body length in front. Normally I say "ah well" and stop. She flies back into position but she continues to dance forward. Thought about this.....then decided to change the approach. When she danced forward I said "ah well" but walked right back to our starting point (top of the stairs). Wow, but what a difference. She hasn't danced forward in several days. Turns out I was helping her too much :)

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

When she danced forward I said "ah well" but walked right back to our starting point (top of the stairs). Wow, but what a difference. She hasn't danced forward in several days. Turns out I was helping her too much :)

Strange how getting the response cost right - really fixes things.

I am becoming so aware of things I just "manage" instead of training a better way... like the number of times I have to put the lead on at the park in anticipation of some foraging (playground is a key target and around the football clubrooms) etc. And the number of times I let her ignore me in the back yard. Hmm.

[fbaudry]

Ok, more questions from dumb me...

There's no need to submit videos, right? (If one was to register at the last minute)

I've got a little Ms Whiney here when she's trying to figure things out, or wants something, of thinks she's missing out on something, which really drives me nuts at times. Am I likely to see an increase in this behaviour if I do the course (just going from the above comments about barking / whining)

Not sure it's appropriate to discuss here, but was anyone else uncomfortable watching the 3rd promo video with the segment on the ball obsessed Golden Retriever?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

but was anyone else uncomfortable watching the 3rd promo video with the segment on the ball obsessed Golden Retriever

I'm sure it's ok to discuss. There's no point signing up with a trainer whose techniques you're not happy with.

I find head halters on dogs uncomfortable to watch. SG trains her dogs to be thrilled about wearing the head halter - and it's clear the GR didn't get that - because it was rubbing - tho it seemed like an expression of frustration to me - I didn't get what I wanted so now I'm going to rub. Some dogs scratch and my dog BARKS.

She uses "operant conditioning" a lot. There is a really fine line between using it for good (training a dog to enjoy what you want them to do) and for evil (brainwashing and manipulation). Sometimes they seem the same. But you can usually tell if the dog is doing something to please you or doing something to please itself.

And the GR had several goes at "training the owner" - sometimes refered to as driving the bus - who is driving the bus here?

So sometimes the way SG handled the head halter looked very similar to the way some people use choke chains - like a punishment. She sees it more like how people use head halters to control horses - as control over where the head goes (and therefore the rest of the animal). I would except for the fact that head halters (and Pirelli halters) have a lever over the nose... so those are more like corrections - ie it can be slightly painful for the nose not to go where it's directed.

But to the GR - which was more effective? Dragging the dog off the bag of balls and where you wanted to go,

or stopping it from getting into the balls and taking it back to "do over" and see what choice it made this time?

The thing I found most interesting about the GR was the peristance level that SG had. She was not giving up until that dog had given her good tug - after he'd shown he could tug then got shown his fave toys. A couple more sessions like that and he's not going to need the head halter at all (SGs plan with those is always to have them off within 3 weeks), and he will tug with as much joy and enthusiasm as he has for the balls. Because good tug will come to mean the same thing.

So yes, sometimes the brain wash aspect and pushing the line around the edge of punishment - ie doggy disappointment - does bother me. But it works.

It's your choice how far you take it. LOH doesn't go as far as SG does with that side of things. And even SG doesn't push it 100% - you only need 80% success ie 4 out of 5 times for a dog to be learning. And SG's dogs still have their own character and still do their own thing from time to time - they might look like robot dogs but they're not and their joy for work is inspiring. I wish I had that more often.

[J...]

Heh heh. Love it.

One thing I have picked up on.....when I walk Em out the front door or from the car to do retrieving I ask her to walk "with me." This is not a formal heel - she needs to walk in a relaxed manner by my side but look forward in case a bird flushes. However, because she knows that she will do some sort of retrieve (even a drill) at the end she can't help but dance half a body length in front. Normally I say "ah well" and stop. She flies back into position but she continues to dance forward. Thought about this.....then decided to change the approach. When she danced forward I said "ah well" but walked right back to our starting point (top of the stairs). Wow, but what a difference. She hasn't danced forward in several days. Turns out I was helping her too much :)

That is really interesting, they certainly are great at training us. :laugh:

I should really crack down on and reimplement all of the Ruff Love work, but I tolerate the behaviour and then kick myself when I get annoyed with the "bad behaviour" that I've let them all get away with. My current battle is the front door. All three dogs sit and wait until I open the door and verbally release them, but it becomes a free for all once I do as they all bolt down the stairs and head for the ute at whirlwind speed. It's only a matter of time before one of them injures themselves in the fray

I need to work out an alternative behaviour that has them all leaving the house in an orderly fashion but I haven't worked that out yet

No need to submit videos yourself. I missed all but the last promo videos so didn't see the ones you're referring to. Bit frustrating that they were taken down so quickly.

[Kavik]

Ok, more questions from dumb me...

There's no need to submit videos, right? (If one was to register at the last minute)

I've got a little Ms Whiney here when she's trying to figure things out, or wants something, of thinks she's missing out on something, which really drives me nuts at times. Am I likely to see an increase in this behaviour if I do the course (just going from the above comments about barking / whining)

Not sure it's appropriate to discuss here, but was anyone else uncomfortable watching the 3rd promo video with the segment on the ball obsessed Golden Retriever?

What did you find uncomfortable about the third video?

SG is certainly persistent with getting the tugging!

[The Spotted Devil]

fbaudry - re the whining/barking - with mine it's because they are so keen to play with me that they get frustrated because it's not their turn. One of my goals for the course is now to ensure I reward good choices (quiet) and teach them to wait with self control. I'd like another pup towards the end of the year and if it inherits Em's voice I don't think I could cope

[fbaudry]

Ok, more questions from dumb me...

There's no need to submit videos, right? (If one was to register at the last minute)

I've got a little Ms Whiney here when she's trying to figure things out, or wants something, of thinks she's missing out on something, which really drives me nuts at times. Am I likely to see an increase in this behaviour if I do the course (just going from the above comments about barking / whining)

Not sure it's appropriate to discuss here, but was anyone else uncomfortable watching the 3rd promo video with the segment on the ball obsessed Golden Retriever?

What did you find uncomfortable about the third video?

SG is certainly persistent with getting the tugging!

I'm not sure I can articulate it properly Kavik, and Mrs Rusty Bucket did a better job of it than me. To start with, I don't understand why a head halter is required for this particular dog. I agree there's a place for them, but to me that should be limited to reactive dogs that needs to be redirected quickly on walks etc (and that sort of class environment would be highly unsuitable to these dogs).

Then, the dog starts scratching at it when stressed, and gets corrected for it. I don't get why one would punish a dog for an emotional response, instead of trying to address the issue?

There's another example when she asks the dog for a sit and visibly yanks it in position with the halter. That but really made me cringe.

I'm just confused about how she keeps on harping on about letting the dog make choices, but then puts the dog in a situation where it can't make any choice (being held head up tight on the halter). The other videos had me pretty convinced on signing up, but that segment left me a bad after taste.

[The Spotted Devil]

fbaudry I agree with you to the extent that I don't even have a flat collar on my dogs during training. I certainly won't be using a halti anytime soon. There has to be a balance in training between dealing with the emotional response of the dog vs the learning component and I don't like to push a dog through that emotional side so forcefully. I suspect that the dog's owner has been dealing with the emotional response of the dog to its detriment and SG felt the need to push him over the hump. The dog wasn't fearful but was so obsessed by the balls that he became anxious when he couldn't access them. The question is: is the acute stress that SG imposed justified if it breaks the pattern on anxiety that leads to chronic stress? I think there is a bit each way on this one.

This is why I like the idea of on-line course though rather than an intense workshop as SG conducts - no system is perfect - I take what works with me and apply it to my dogs.

Edited June 27, 2014 by The Spotted Devil

[Leah82]

Ok, more questions from dumb me...

There's no need to submit videos, right? (If one was to register at the last minute)

I've got a little Ms Whiney here when she's trying to figure things out, or wants something, of thinks she's missing out on something, which really drives me nuts at times. Am I likely to see an increase in this behaviour if I do the course (just going from the above comments about barking / whining)

Not sure it's appropriate to discuss here, but was anyone else uncomfortable watching the 3rd promo video with the segment on the ball obsessed Golden Retriever?

What did you find uncomfortable about the third video?

SG is certainly persistent with getting the tugging!

I'm not sure I can articulate it properly Kavik, and Mrs Rusty Bucket did a better job of it than me. To start with, I don't understand why a head halter is required for this particular dog. I agree there's a place for them, but to me that should be limited to reactive dogs that needs to be redirected quickly on walks etc (and that sort of class environment would be highly unsuitable to these dogs).

Then, the dog starts scratching at it when stressed, and gets corrected for it. I don't get why one would punish a dog for an emotional response, instead of trying to address the issue?

There's another example when she asks the dog for a sit and visibly yanks it in position with the halter. That but really made me cringe.

I'm just confused about how she keeps on harping on about letting the dog make choices, but then puts the dog in a situation where it can't make any choice (being held head up tight on the halter). The other videos had me pretty convinced on signing up, but that segment left me a bad after taste.

From my point of view it's about the dog feeling like they made a choice even though you're blocking them from making any other choice than the one you want initially. Once you're dog is more likely to make the right choice then you spend less time blocking the bad choices.

I can tell my dog to sit before I open the crate but then each time I go to open the crate they are waiting for me to tell them before sitting.

If they know I won't be letting them out of the crate until they are sitting then it will become an automated response and essentially they are making the choice, if they don't want to come out the crate then they don't have to sit.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Leah82

[The Spotted Devil]

In general SG controls access to the resource rather than the dog. But for some dogs - including the GR - staring at the resource was enough to be rewarding. I suspect that's why she is using the halti to control where the dog can look. Ignore the resource and you'll get it.