Dogue De Bordeaux / English Mastiff Puppy. New Pic's Of Kirby

[BC Crazy]

Hello everyone,

I'm after some information/help for my stepson actually. He came over yesterday to show us his new puppy.

A 6 week old Dogue x English Mastiff he & his girlfriend have just brought from a BYB

Hmmm, I so wish they would of come to me first but here they both were, with baby in arms, over the moon

So on the up side of this, if there is one. They are both lovely young dog loving people who want nothing but the best for "Kirby". Kirby being so young, at 6 weeks & me knowing nothing about large breeds like this, thought I might ask on here for any advice regarding feeding,exercise,training & general health management for puppies of this breed /'s...

My stepson has rescued a Doberman who he has had for 4 years & now they have Kirby as well. He has done a brilliant job with his Dob who was serverely neglected in his previous life. Now is a picture of health & a lovely boy.

I gave them some toys, a kong, a crate & new bed for her. Kirby appears to be in excellent health. Is eating & drinking very well. She has had her first shots as well. Very content baby girl & very, very cute.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated :)

Edited July 5, 2014 by BC Crazy

[Animal House]

That's a whole lot of dog, I really hope the parents have stable temperaments.

It's also illegal to sell pups before 8 weeks of age, and rightly so. They are still learning manners from Mum and litter mates, and how to be social pup, play, whats acceptable rough behaviour, bite inhibition etc.

I'd advise them to return it, sorry.

[persephone]

I think we need pics first ! :p

I don't know either breed .. but my guess is LARGE . Watch feeding in case of joint probs- don't let them have her jump up & down ..go on long walks for a while yet ..and do lots of reading up on socialising. it is such a shame they were sucked in Hopefully , at least this little one will be well understood and be a safe member of society .

Edited June 1, 2014 by persephone

[korbin13]

Six weeks is early but when I was growing up it was the norm and our dogs turned out fine. I would be doing everything the same as if the pup was an eight week old, she has had her first vaccination, puppy school etc.

And a large breed diet. I have a mastiff x and she has had terrible joint issues, we got her at twelve weeks and she was skin and bone.

[BC Crazy]

Caz. Yes I know it is illegal is sell a puppy at 6 weeks... between that & the BYBer's issue I nearly had a fit. I was far from a being happy but what can I do??? What point would it make for me to get upset at them now. I'm just very disappointed but now have to make sure I arm myself with knowledge of these large breeds so I at least have some answers for them if they ask. They are both very responsible, dog loving 20+ year olds.

Apparently the reason the 'breeder' wanted them to take the puppy early was Parvo is very previlant in the

area at the moment Thats a whole other can of worms.

Kobin, yes used to be OK at 6 weeks to pick up a puppy years ago, didn't it? Not so now though. And they are going to take her to puppy school etc. I 'm concerned about Kirby's hips, who knows as there would of been no testing done on parents.

Pers, I'll try & post some pic's. Not very computer savvy.

Kirby's as cute as a button. And HUGE !!! In excellent condition. Seems very sweet natured & extremely content. I put the new bed down on the floor for her & within 2 min's she was sound asleep in it. Then woke up & had a little walk around, tail wagging, then sleep in bed again :laugh: She is getting carried around atm because she is so young, but will pass on no stairs etc as I know they have a few stairs at the back.

Yes it's a real shame they got sucked into a BYBer's puppy. I really wish they didn't. I know they did look at pure breed Dogue's but it boiled down to $$$ I think. Errrrr.

Edited June 1, 2014 by BC Crazy

[Salukifan]

Diet will be extremely important to such a big pup (although Dogues are not as large as some folk seem think so her size may not be giant). See what the BM, Dogue and Mastiff folk feed.

She will need to be kept lean and grown slowly with a full chance to mature before desexing. I'd be worried about hips too.

[BC Crazy]

Good idea HW. Will check in on the Dogue feed.

Apparently dad was the English Mastiff weighing some 90 odd kg & mum was Dogue at around 70 kg.

Kirby looks very much full Dogue so will be on the smaller side of mini pony I'm hoping. Very thick legs & monster feet though.

[Loving my Oldies]

Despite her provenance :D :D , I think Kirby is in very good hands. The only problem I see is DOL tragics getting enough photos. LOL.

[BC Crazy]

Giggle DDD... :) thanks for your vote of confidence.

[Animal House]

It is hard when they've already got the pup, I'd have a good read up about the importance of slow growth & feeding rules for large breed pups, and then pass that info onto the owners.

This ones fairly straight forward too http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ktudor/2013/may/feeding-the-large-and-giant-breed-puppy-30265

[Salukifan]

Good idea HW. Will check in on the Dogue feed.

Apparently dad was the English Mastiff weighing some 90 odd kg & mum was Dogue at around 70 kg.

Kirby looks very much full Dogue so will be on the smaller side of mini pony I'm hoping. Very thick legs & monster feet though.

So she looks like a APBT to the ignorant.

[BC Crazy]

It is hard when they've already got the pup, I'd have a good read up about the importance of slow growth & feeding rules for large breed pups, and then pass that info onto the owners.

This ones fairly straight forward too http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ktudor/2013/may/feeding-the-large-and-giant-breed-puppy-30265

Yes your right Caz. What was I to say when they are so excited about their new addition. They couldn't come over quick enough to show me Kirby.

Thanks for the link. Apprectiate it :)

[Simply Grand]

Good idea HW. Will check in on the Dogue feed.

Apparently dad was the English Mastiff weighing some 90 odd kg & mum was Dogue at around 70 kg.

Kirby looks very much full Dogue so will be on the smaller side of mini pony I'm hoping. Very thick legs & monster feet though.

That seems huge although I think some people like to exaggerate the weights of their dogs coz bigger is cooler *eye roll*

I agree, no point trying to talk them out of keeping her now, no doubt they're already in love and it sounds like they'll be good owners. As the others have said, food will be vital, she'll need a large breed puppy formula (or whatever experienced mastiff people recommend of course) and apparently it's really important to stick to the right amount and not overfeed or they grow too fast, bones get stretched and joints go all loose and wobbly, which then puts them at increased risk of breaks. They may notice funny growth and twisty legs if they put her onto better quality food than what the breeders were feeding so they'd need to wean her slowly over a good two or three weeks.

Obviously training will be vital from right now too as she will be a big, strong girl :)

And figure out pictures, she sounds adorable!

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

I'll run over my bare bones basics for the ill-informed but well-meaning new large breed puppy owners:

Keep good quality diet, find a great vet who knows their stuff, start training basic manners right now, such as sit before treats & affection and tolerating no jumping up or mouthing, spend at LEAST one lesson a day starting from right now on walking calmly beside them on a leash (obviously starting in their yard first until fully vaccinated) and warn them, it will likely be MONTHS before their dog walks properly on a leash beside them and no matter how excitable the pup is at times and how hopeless the cause seems when 7-month old pupper is pulling them off their feet, do NOT give up on teaching her to walk beside them instead of in pulling front of them. Socialize everywhere possible around as many stable even temperament dogs and as many willing humans as you guys have access to. Ensure that pup is taught to swim and do so as often as humanly & caninely possible (best exercise ever for growing large breeds!) and do not do/only do tiny amounts of 'hard' exercise like excessive jumping, jogging/running, or running beside a bike until mature and conditioned for it.

That was longer than I intended! Wish them luck from me, Zeke & Maya :)

Edited June 1, 2014 by Chris the Rebel Wolf

[RuralPug]

Even though she is a BYB cross bred puppy, I would hope that some generous Mastiff breeder would send you their puppy diet and advice notes to pass on. Would it be too cheeky to ask in the Mastiff thread?

Not only are diet, training and socialisation important, large breed puppies need carefully monitored amounts of exercise, too much or too little can mean joint problems later.

It doesn't sound as though there is much chance that the parents were hip and elbow scored etc. so it is so much more important to raise the puppy carefully to minimise the possible bad genes.

Also prepare them for the shorter life expectancy of the giant breeds.

Thank Dog that at least one puppy from the BYB litter has a chance at a decent life...thanks for stepping up for this little one.

[2boxer]

My brother has a pure dogue and his breeder recommended royal canin giant puppy. He has grown well on this! Def need pics!!

[dancinbcs]

Sorry, I would tell them to take it back and report the breeder to local council for selling underage and most likely not microchipped puppies. Better a little disappointment now than possibly multiple thousands of dollars out of pocket to fix dodgy joints in the future. If they can't afford a purebred dog they cannot afford a dog that size. Food alone while it is growing is going to be a huge cost. I looked into a giant breed many years ago and found out that they cost more to feed than a horse. There is no way these young people could be described as responsible. They have bought a dog with no research at all. A dog can never get back the 6-8 week period when it should still be with the dam and litter, learning how to get on with other dogs. Removing puppies from the litter too soon leads to dog aggression which can be a serious problem if that dog grows to 70 kgs.

[BC Crazy]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Dancin, I agree but I've got about as much chance of them returning the puppy as I have flying to the moon...

There is just no way. Un be knowns to me they have been visiting the puppy since one week old, every w.end, so they are well & truly smitten. The puppy has been chipped in their name already.

Oh what I meant by responsible is that they both work, usually law abiding citizens. Both are dog/animal loving couple in mid 20's. Naive & gullible YES!!!

They brought the puppy from country NSW & apparently the Parvo virus is bad in the area & this is why the BYBER allowed them to take the puppy. How true this is, well who'd know. She is one of 15 puppies. 4 died, so 11 remaining. They have taken the Kirby to the Vet & received a clean bill of health.

I'm upset about the whole situation. As soon as my stepson mentioned Gumtree I nearly had a fit... but I can't run my step sons life nor do I want to. I just want to make sure the puppy is OK & knowing nothing about large breeds I thought I'd better arm myself with info so I can help where ever possible. I'm not one to interfere either. So if I'm asked I thought at least I'll be able to give some informed advice instead of, I don't know ???

[raineth]

Yes, definitely get advice on diets that mastiff people use. Also tell them to grow her lean, and have her nails nice and short always, if they are allowed to get too long it's not great for the conformation of the foot. Also they need to be careful with exercise.

Obviously, as you yourself are more than aware, the situation is less than ideal.

However, as the owner of a mastiff x who we got at 2.5 years old, I can say that bad hips and poor temperament are not necessarily her destiny.

You've already said that her temperament seems good, so that's a good sign.

My boy has a temperament of gold. His hips have been fine, even though I think he probably wasn't raised on the best food. The only problem is that his nails were allowed to grow too long, so his feet are not as tight as they should be, however this hasn't caused us any problems.

Apart from that, he had some skin issues when we first adopted him which cleared up within the first year, and have never been back since.

Ofcourse as you know, he know has cancer at age 7. So all I'm saying is that there is a chance she'll turn out ok, and not a health and temperament car wreck.

The other thing they need to keep in mind is just that what can be cute in a puppy can be awful when the dog is bigger. So they need to always keep in mind 'will I like this when she's fifty kgs?'

[Salukifan]

They brought the puppy from country NSW & apparently the Parvo virus is bad in the area & this is why the BYBER allowed them to take the puppy. How true this is, well who'd know.

The breeder let them visit 1 week old pups? Any breeder in a parvo area who allowed visitors to unvaccinated pups is an idiot. I don't buy the "allowed six week old pup out because of parvo" one iota. Those pups had bugger all immunity from Mum and same from the vaccination at that age.

However, done is done. CTRW is right - TRAIN this pup. She's going to be a big girl. Not jumping on people and leash manners will be essential. They need to start now.

Push the "don't over exercise the pup" message too.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Haredown Whippets