Help Me Help My Adolescent Kelpie To Play Fetch!

[Kavik]

You just have to keep training interesting and short :)

[skip]

I read your post and thought " Welcome to my world!"

Typical kelpie. Gets the ball, stick, whatever , and drops it about 10 metres away. Looks at you and basically says " Here's MY ball, throw it for me now SLAVE!"

Having such a clever dog is a joy but a riot at times.

You might not know what a 2on, 2off position is but basically I want two behaviours. I want one first then another. My kelpie was in a rush for her reward and rushing to the second behaviour, missing the first behaviour. When I waited so she could give me what I wanted she got frustrated and picked up the foot target on the ground and tossed it at me! It didn't go far as the foot target is floppy so she picked it up again and got it closer to me with a grunt to go with it. Frustrated much.

Kelpies can be really soft but at the same time can manipulate you to get what they want. Mine can be quite determined if she has her mind on something.

Kavik hit the nail on the head with her advice as does Vickie. I followed the method Kavik gave, using a small room (bathroom) and doing nose touches. Then using toy and getting nose touch with toy in mouth. This was also useful later to get her to bring lots of different things to me.

Vickie's suggestion is new to me but at the time I was advised not to use moving away as another cue just to get a speedy return of a toy. Pity as this suggestion makes sense too if done as Vicki says.

As RazorBlade says I didn't want any obsessive behaviour either. However my kelpie is not that obsessed about balls sticks etc. She is however mad on water from hoses but that's OK to me as I control that access.

I use a thrown tug toy as its useful in agility to reward. Have you tried tugging?.

I get the ball thing as kelpies just like movement the most. Running is the best reward and when the ball stops its less fun.

And I found it different teaching the kelpie to heel compared to my other dogs who are more focused on me.

I tried the stop moving if they pull method... I'd stop walking if she went ahead of me so she would return to heel but then she'd immediately dart ahead again. She would happily do this for ages.

So I tried a halti. I used food to get my dog used to the actual halti and to reward the heeling behaviour. Now she has it but she is NOT a fan of staright obedience. Mostly we walk on a loose lead about town, important as I walk 3 at once. If she does give me crap heeling ( or any crap) at any time she is back on the lead (or halti) and she isn't impressed.

You do need to take time to make sure the halti is introduced properly and this could take days. The Gentle Leader halti I use came with instructions for this. Did yours?

Her biggest reward is to "go play" , so I get her to do anything I want, then I release her with "go play". This is different from her release cue. "GO Play" means she will do what I ask such as walk next to me, drop, wait , put feet on a pole , stand still......then as a reward I let her "go Play".

THis release to play is the biggest tool I have. I can ask her to do lots as I control her freedom.

Good on you for adopting. Your dog looks lovely. I'm biased as my girl is the same colour!

Love to know how it goes.

PS . They are not stubborn! Just too smart!

[raineth]

Yeah, whether you use a halti, or a collar or a harness you still have to train the dog to loose leash walk :)

Also with haltis it is often important to have the dog fully accustomed to the feel of it before you begin using it. You can do this by starting slowly and building up the time they wear it for, and making it all a positive experience :)

Was she pawing at it all?

I bet she'll enjoy training, provided the club you take her to uses rewards, rather than lots of corrections to teach behaviour.

Edited May 30, 2014 by raineth

[Vickie]

This afternoon I tried the running away technique and she seemed to respond well. I will try it for a few days and see if it yields any results.

That's great news.

I teach agility classes & often write notes for my students to support something we have talked about/trained. I am copying a section of this weeks notes about Communication below, because they are 100% relevant to teaching a dog to bring a ball back ( and a whole heap of other things too) :

If we want to change something, the first thing we need to do is commit ourselves to changing it. Because honestly, once a habit is formed, it generally takes time to change it. Trying something once or twice is not enough to form a new habit.

The next thing we need to do is find a way to reproduce what we actually do want. If we can't produce it, how can we communicate that we want it?

The BIG one is making a big deal about marking and rewarding it when we get it. Reward is our most effective communication. The more something is rewarded, the more it will be repeated.

I know, it all sounds so simple. It is. But what we tend to do as handlers & trainers is try to reward groups of behaviours, not individual behaviours.

Hope that helps :)

Edited May 30, 2014 by Vickie