Help Me Help My Adolescent Kelpie To Play Fetch!

[farmerprov]

G'day,

I recently adopted an 8 month old Kelpie named Willow. I have been training Willow every day and she is quite responsive. She is sitting, staying, laying on command and she is getting better at coming when called.

The issue we are having is playing fetch. She isn't interested in the ball itself, just the 'game' - the act of me throwing the ball. It is kind of a paradox - what she wants more than anything in the world is for me to throw the ball, however, once she gets to the ball she picks it up and drops it straight away, or runs with it in her mouth around me to a position about 10 metres away, drops it and gives me a look that says 'I'm ready, throw the ball again'. She is not interested in the ball at all. In fact I cannot get her to even look at the ball. I have tried throwing it up in the air or moving it around in front of her face but she only looks at me. Because she has no interest in the ball until it has left my hand, it is very hard to use it as a tool to make her come.

I'm sure that if I can harness her desire for me to throw the ball it could be a really effective training tool, I'm just not sure how. I have stopped throwing the ball for her for the time being as I am worried that continuing to play in this way will further enforce that if she stays 10 metres away from me I will throw the ball for her.

Any ideas would be very helpful!

Thanks.

P.s. This is Willow and My fiance Hannah

[BC Crazy]

Welcome Farmerprov :)

Sorry am not of much help with your fetch issues FP. I too have fetch issues with both my BC's at times. My male like to fetch on his terms mostly & they are when he will retrieve it for about 3 or 4 times, then he wants to keep the ball & me to chase him. Not quite sure that's how it is suppose to be played :laugh: My girl doesn't want to stop playing, period... So interested to see what other Dolers with much more knowledge have to say.

Love Willow, what a pretty girl Good on you for rescuing her. She will thank you everyday for doing so :D

Edited May 29, 2014 by BC Crazy

[kelpiecuddles]

If she'll hold he ball for a moment I would put her on a long lead, throw the ball a short distance(only a meter or two) and tell her to fetch and as son as she grabs it reel her in and praise her for bringing the ball and then throw it again straight away, gradually over time increase the distance till she gets the idea and then once you are working off lead again never acknowledge the ball until she puts t where you want it..

[silentchild]

Not sure if this will work in your case - I have problems with fetch too, similiar to BC Crazy, my dog just likes to chase the ball/frisbee/whatever, and just run around with it or lie down and start chewing on it.

What I do is I take 2 balls, throw one - then when she gets it and starts running around I make a big deal about the other ball I have, she naturally comes close to investigate, and when she gets close and drops the first ball I throw the second one, she chases it, I pick up the first ball and rinse and repeat... eventually she learnt that bringing the first ball back to me will make the throw the second one, but I don't know how to transition down to one ball lol. :laugh:

I've also done rewarding with food, as in throw the ball, the moment she picks it up and brings it back I reward her, she caught on to this very quickly and would fetch super reliably. The problem is if I don't have food it's back to the old game tho, LOL.

Clearly I'm not much help in the fetch department! Lucky I don't really mind, I find it fun tearing around after her anyway, LOL.

ETA: She does know the command "Get it" tho, so if I point at something and tell her to "Get it!" she will get it - bringing it to me however is a different issue!

Edited May 29, 2014 by silentchild

[Weasels]

I got a second dog who does fetch, and the non-fetchy dog just chases her :laugh:

Sorry not very helpful

[Kavik]

You could try teaching a retrieve. This is a video that I have found very useful in teaching a retrieve to my Kelpie :)

[Leah82]

I'm glad some of these working dogs have issues with fetch as well, I figured they were all naturals and Sarah was just a hopeless toy breed :p

Sarah will chase the ball, sometimes pick it up and if she does it pretty much get's dropped immediately.

Collie will chase it and pick it up (when he finds it) then comes back to you but stays a couple of metres away. Then the OCD kicks in, he lies down, chews the ball on his paws for a bit then finally rolls the ball off his paws with his nose telling you it's time to pick it up. If he's too far away you can then use that moment to tell him to come closer and then he picks the ball up, takes a couple of steps and repeats chewing and rolling. Alternatively if you don't have all day to play fetch you can just catch him and take the ball off him.

My parents kelpie x is an absolute natural, he'll drop the ball at your feet, or pass it to you if you want. If he drops it too far away it's just a quick command to get him to pick it up and bring it closer. At the same time you can tell him if you want him to catch it or chase it. But I'm pretty sure it's nothing my parents did so I'm sorry farmerprov I can't help

[Kavik]

The key I find is to make it valuable for them to bring something to you. I started with something my dog did not already have value in - I chose a crumpled up piece of paper, but you can use anything. I used a nose touch to my hand as a start - they have value in touching your hand with their nose. Get them interested in the article, move it around, mark and reward when they put their mouth on it, build this up to them holding it, then present your hand (at this point you are right next to them, with dog on lead if you think they will take off with it). If your dog has value for your hand, they should move towards your hand for a nose touch. Mark and reward even if they let go of the item but come to your hand. Build up to them bringing the item, aim is to have them bring it to your hand.

[raineth]

My old Great Dane learnt fetch by having play dates with a Labrador who was proficient at fetch. And Danes aren't exactly the sort of breed known to play fetch. He definitely learnt through observing the Labrador.

So if you know anyone with a dog who fetches well you could let your girl join in (provided the other dog doesn't have resource guarding issues with the ball of course!).

[huski]

The other thing to consider is whether she will play tug with a ball on a rope? As that is a great reward for recall too and a bit more practical as a reward.

[Luke GSP]

I taught my GSP to fetch through the traditional steps of "force fetch" training

Fetch (place object in mouth)

Hold (hold object in mouth)

Give (place object in my hand)

Once actions were learnt I dropped the hold and now just use fetch (go to object, pick it up and return to me)and give (self explanatory).

But rather than force I used reward. It was actually a really great exercise and better than just teaching "fetch" as I can use the steps to help train other things. It also helped with generalisation of the object as in reality it doesn't matter whether i want the dog to place a ball, can, bottle, tug, broom, my arm, my finger or some socks in its mouth, if you point at it and tell her to fetch, she puts it in her mouth and holds it till you tell her to "give"

Up until I did this she was the most frustrating dog, as she would often greet you by picking something up in her mouth and bringing it to you, but if you threw something she would either stand looking at you, or run pick it up and then drop it.

[tikira]

Welcome to DOL, Willow is lovely.

Our border Collie thinks it is her mission to make us exercise. She chases the ball when thrown, and then comes about half way back and drops it and waits. We just accept that we must do our part, and meet her halfway. We have now taught her "closer" and she picks the ball up and throws it a few feet closer to us.... I guess some dogs just like to make up their own games, That does'nt mean they are not having fun and exercising.

Good luck with changing her idea of a fun game.

Di

[Vickie]

Some of mine have been natural retrievers, some not.

My method for those who chase, but dont retrieve, is this:

I throw the ball & then when the dog gets to it & picks it up, I move/run away from them. In the beginning, any steps they take towards me with the ball, I tell them how good they are (I use a marker word). As soon as they drop the ball I run to get it & throw it again. The throw rewards the steps they have taken towards me. I continue to do this and they get closer & closer with the ball in their mouth.

Even if/when they catch me, I still keep moving away, so that in the end they are begging me to take it to throw it again.

Not sure if I have explained it well, lol, it's much easier to demonstrate than write about, but it hasn't failed with a dog yet...mine or others...

[kelpiecuddles]

It's probably a blessing tikira. Sascha knows that I'll ignore her if she doesn't bring the ball right to me. Only problem is she hasn't worked out how to differentiate between me ignoring her because she isn't bringing it close enough and me ignoring her because I don't want to play. So trying to ignore her and sit quietly to have a cuppa while she shoves the ball at your leg, and then at your knee, and then on your lap and then in to your face doesn't work :laugh:

Edited May 29, 2014 by kelpiecuddles

[RazorBlade]

Just my opinion obviously, but, I've been very cautious of playing to much fetch with my kelpie. I've had dogs before and have friends with dogs that have become obsessed with playing fetch and it can be very annoying. One friends dog will do nothing but try and make you play fetch by dropping anything it can get hold of at your feet. A bloke I work with has a dog that follows everyone around site all day picking up random off cuts of timber and head butting you to try and start a game.

It's one of those things that most people want their dog to do though and my son likes to throw things to the dog so what I have done is to make the retrieving of a ball/stick a job that has a reward at the end, rather than make the retrieve of the ball a reward in itself. That way I think there is less of a chance of it developing into a self rewarding obsessive behaviour.

This might also help you as rather than trying to increase your dogs interest in the ball you are just trying to teach another "job" with a big reward at the end. Poorly articulated but it might be helpful.

[kelpiecuddles]

Yes I know wht you mean! Our solve has been that we have only ever played fetch with tennis balls, if I don't want to play the ball is put away.

[farmerprov]

Thank you all very much for the warm welcome and replies!

This afternoon I tried the running away technique and she seemed to respond well. I will try it for a few days and see if it yields any results.

I also tried using a Halti Head Collar today she was pulling incessantly owned choking her pelf on her collar when I tried to walk her previously. The Halti worked surprisingly well for about 10 minutes, at which point I should have rewarded her and taken it off but instead I tried to keep a good thing going which led to her getting upset and laying down, refusing to walk. I am worried that I may have tainted her connection with the Halti by going for too long.

Has anyone had a similar issue?

We just booked her into an obedience school that starts in a fortnight. I hope that she takes to it well as I have read that some Kelpies don't respond well to on leash training due to their stubborn nature. Hopefully I am just being a worry wart. Any and all obedience anecdotes welcomed :)

[kelpiecuddles]

I fed mine their dinner in the halti for the first few days LOL

[kelpiecuddles]

I've never found kelpies to be stubborn,they are usually very keen to please but they often don't take kindly to being scolded or treated poorly. My girl can be told off at a whisper and that's enough for her to know she's been naughty :)

[farmerprov]

I've never found kelpies to be stubborn,they are usually very keen to please but they often don't take kindly to being scolded or treated poorly. My girl can be told off at a whisper and that's enough for her to know she's been naughty :)

That is great news!! Thank you :)