Salukifan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) I have 2 female Frenchies and 1 is food agressive. Frenchies are again smaller so more managable, but she has given the other dog some decent bites when we have incidents. The non-food aggressive one is only 8 months old so she doesnt fight back and has quickly learnt not to go near her at dinner time, but being a puppy, she forgets sometimes. Then feed them in crates. Why are you punishing the older dog for a perfectly natural response to a younger dog getting near her food? God I hate Cesar Milan sometimes. Edited May 21, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 oh wow, sorry about the issue your having, if i could help i would but my two are a little too friendly at dinner time LOL they had to be seperated for the opposite reason, sharing too much. With one being on puppy food and the other on adult, they werent eating their right meals, they enjoyed sharing the same bowels or taking it in turns, the same with the water, if one drinks, the other is sure to stick their head in too, then lick each others faces during meal times. ive even seem them take some food gently out of the others mouth xDD But all i did was annoy them during dinner time, pat them take food out of the bowel, take the bowel away, push them away, poke their faces as they ate :p and teaching them to wait. Although Mishka does get a little aggressive when she has a pigs ear, or the white bone things you buy from petshops, because she cant have actual bones because she gets really sick. But shes never bit or lashed out, she just growls a little but lets you take it, or lets ace take it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbaudry Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Escalating frequency of aggression, low level triggers. Separate them and call in a decent trainer before they, or you, get badly hurt. The fact that you have a young male prepared to go a bitch would worry me big time. +1.... I'd be worried about them running together unsupervised when the owners aren't home. I have 2 female Frenchies and 1 is food agressive. Frenchies are again smaller so more managable, but she has given the other dog some decent bites when we have incidents. The non-food aggressive one is only 8 months old so she doesnt fight back and has quickly learnt not to go near her at dinner time, but being a puppy, she forgets sometimes. Then feed them in crates. Why are you punishing the older dog for a perfectly natural response to a younger dog getting near her food? God I hate Cesar Milan sometimes. Thank you for putting that more eloquently (and calmly) than I could.... There's been an increase in the number of alpha rolling dog owners at training lately; I wonder if there's a new series of that stupid show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I have 2 female Frenchies and 1 is food agressive. Frenchies are again smaller so more managable, but she has given the other dog some decent bites when we have incidents. The non-food aggressive one is only 8 months old so she doesnt fight back and has quickly learnt not to go near her at dinner time, but being a puppy, she forgets sometimes. Then feed them in crates. Why are you punishing the older dog for a perfectly natural response to a younger dog getting near her food? God I hate Cesar Milan sometimes. The sad part is the 8 month old one day will most likely say enough is enough & will react back ,won't be funny then plus why train this behaviour into two dogs ,just don't get it ?? We get dogs in boarding people brag how they fight & at dinner time & will show the scars like a trophy from them separating. Luckily we are set up so dogs aren't feed together . As for the OP i agree put them in the crates first don't encourage the cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sares Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) I have 2 female Frenchies and 1 is food agressive. Frenchies are again smaller so more managable, but she has given the other dog some decent bites when we have incidents. The non-food aggressive one is only 8 months old so she doesnt fight back and has quickly learnt not to go near her at dinner time, but being a puppy, she forgets sometimes. The sad part is the 8 month old one day will most likely say enough is enough & will react back ,won't be funny then plus why train this behaviour into two dogs ,just don't get it ?? We get dogs in boarding people brag how they fight & at dinner time & will show the scars like a trophy from them separating. Luckily we are set up so dogs aren't feed together . As for the OP i agree put them in the crates first don't encourage the cycle I never said this situation is funny? not sure how you got that? I dont let them near each other at dinner the moment we discovered there was a problem. But puppy does forget and tries to walk into the other, which we quickly stop. we are there to supervise at all times. We tell her to stop and sit and stay... which she does because we have trained her to do so. We do not crate our girls at dinner time. We train them to behave appropriately and that dinner ours until we say they can eat. I know how serious the situation is and which is why we are managing it. Edited May 21, 2014 by Sares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) I never said this situation is funny? not sure how you got that? I dont let them near each other at dinner the moment we discovered there was a problem. But puppy does forget and tries to walk into the other, which we quickly stop. we are there to supervise at all times. We tell her to stop and sit and stay... which she does because we have trained her to do so. We do not crate our girls at dinner time. We train them to behave appropriately and that dinner ours until we say they can eat. I know how serious the situation is and which is why we are managing it. You could potentially be making it worse. You are not managing it effectively if it continues to occur and if your response is to "discipline" the older dog for the transgressions of the younger one. Prevent it and you won't have to manage anything. Less stress on the dogs and you and no chance of a serious dust up when the older dog has had enough of the pup and goes the preemptive strike before you discpline her for defending her food. You are fuelling pack problerms by demanding behaviour from your older dog that goes against a natural instinct and by allowing the younger dog to push the envelope. Edited May 21, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 They're not supposed to be in the kitchen at all.. so that's totally a fail on my part for not shutting the door .. or whatever happened. They get fed in their crates. Given the size and strength of Fritz I'd rather Esky not be starting something. No question as to who will come worse off. Maybe put them in the crates before you even start preparing food? Otherwise if they're behind the door knowing that food is coming they might fight anyway. I'd also be seeking professional advice. It must be hard. My two are fed separately but I've dropped food, accidentally left the door open etc and they are fine . They have a "first in, first served@ approach to food. I can't imagine the stress of them fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I never said this situation is funny? not sure how you got that? I dont let them near each other at dinner the moment we discovered there was a problem. But puppy does forget and tries to walk into the other, which we quickly stop. we are there to supervise at all times. We tell her to stop and sit and stay... which she does because we have trained her to do so. We do not crate our girls at dinner time. We train them to behave appropriately and that dinner ours until we say they can eat. I know how serious the situation is and which is why we are managing it. But your not by this line alone We used the NILF method. Plus also if there is a incident, we put the older one on her side and she needs to lay there while the younger one eats. She learns quickly that we are the boss and decide who eats. Your using one method & then throwing it out the door by the next forcing her to lay on her side which is training nothing , That isn't teching who the boss is at all but each to there own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 They're not supposed to be in the kitchen at all.. so that's totally a fail on my part for not shutting the door .. or whatever happened. They get fed in their crates. Given the size and strength of Fritz I'd rather Esky not be starting something. No question as to who will come worse off. Maybe put them in the crates before you even start preparing food? Otherwise if they're behind the door knowing that food is coming they might fight anyway. I'd also be seeking professional advice. It must be hard. My two are fed separately but I've dropped food, accidentally left the door open etc and they are fine . They have a "first in, first served@ approach to food. I can't imagine the stress of them fighting. Yeah it was a total guff on my part. They aren't even allowed in the kitchen.. Normally they are seperate until it's crate time... It's just frustrating that I was rushing to get them fed and Esky got hurt as a result.. I have read everythig and will respond to more questions when im not on a tablet. I will add though that resource guarding is not tolerated at all in the breed.. And if it did I assume it's a one way trip to the vet for that dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I find advice to simply crate them whenever food is around as a solution when there has already been an issue with resource guarding concerning. What happens when there's a slip up (like in Esky's case) or when you're not at home and somehow one gets hold of food? No one is perfect and while you may get lucky and never have a slip up, I think it's safer to have done something to remedy the actual problem not just rely on keeping them separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 We used the NILF method. Plus also if there is a incident, we put the older one on her side and she needs to lay there while the younger one eats. She learns quickly that we are the boss and decide who eats NEVER DO THIS - get yourself someone with real behavioral experience to teach you how to be the controller of the resources and how to accept this. Alpha rolling the older while the younger eats is going to end in catastrophe down the track or you will cop it from the dog yourself when it reaches boiling point. Youre doing the equivalent of putting an arachnaphobe in a room full of spiders then when they flip out from stress you pin them by the throat and tell them to get over it. Not really a long term fixing of the problem is it. You're creating stress and a reason to fight so remove it. Feed them separately until the stress decreases and they understand food comes from you. It is given from you, it is yours to control and you are 'allowing' them to eat it. When they are finished that is all, no scrounging. Then you start reintroduction with a good distance and a physical barrier, gradually moving closer. That is how you get long term results. You're aiming for massive vet bills when the dogs decide to control something else in the house and fight over it. I have 6 dogs, 4 working dogs and two little terrors (frenchie and a pug) no one dares control, guard or grumble over anything. They can be fed together, if I call a name and hand over a meaty bone they go to their respective corners and finish it. Because it's ultimately in their heads that's mine, NOT theirs. Imagine if I had to alpha roll 4 Belgian Malinois in a fight ... there's the road to permanent disfigurement. If a dog cannot even be around prepared food then there is an issue with 1) knowing what the rules of behavior are in general a lot of the time and 2) they have not learned self control of their emotional state. Yes there is excitement towards food but grabbing another dog is unacceptable, that's escalation to the extreme which means there is a kink in the emotional process. Somewhere the dog has learned and been rewarded (read that not necessarily a conscious rewarding by the owner) for behaving like this. When there is one dog, fine we don't notice. Introduce excitement and now competition ... BOOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Also there is Mark Singer in SA http://www.caninetraining.com.au/ give him a bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 YES, what Nekhbet said! Excellent advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Oh Esky that must have given you such a fright. I have no more to ad than separate before meal prep time and don't leave them together alone & get someone in that knows their stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Not really practical separate them in the yard. But there is no resource guarding. Esky has no interest in well...anything.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) <br>Not really practical separate them in the yard.<br>But there is no resource guarding. Esky has no interest in well...anything..<br><br><br>From what you've posted, it's not Esky's behaviour you have to worry about.  It's the younger dog that's aggressing??? Edited May 21, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 But Esky was approaching him to take his food etc. She has no interest in taking any of 'his' things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Fritz is resource guarding and Esky is not putting up with him being aggressive towards her. Don't panic, this is manageable but you need someone to come and assess the situation and give you a plan. Start by contacting the trainer Nekhbet suggested :) Also, it doesn't make either Fritz or Esky a bad dog, you just have two dogs with their own personalities and experiences learning to live together. And Fritz is still maturing so his personality is far from set. With more knowledge and training for you and the dogs you can sort this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Posted at the same time, Esky may have been approaching just to check out what he had, or because in her head there is no big deal in sharing food. In Fritz's head it is a big deal so there was an issue. ETA - so there's training needed for both of them to understand that there are rules around food and that they both need to look to you for decisions on who gets what, not decide for themselves, whatever their personal opinion is. Edited May 21, 2014 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I have 2 female Frenchies and 1 is food agressive. Frenchies are again smaller so more managable, but she has given the other dog some decent bites when we have incidents. The non-food aggressive one is only 8 months old so she doesnt fight back and has quickly learnt not to go near her at dinner time, but being a puppy, she forgets sometimes. Then feed them in crates. Why are you punishing the older dog for a perfectly natural response to a younger dog getting near her food? God I hate Cesar Milan sometimes. So do I - Cesar Milan facilitates people doing the wrong thing - I hear it regularly during my home checks and general chats with people. The situation Sares has doesn't sound good - is it good to have 2 females in this breed at all? Just a question because sometimes 2 females just doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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