Correct Posture For Running Agility

[sheena]

Last night in my class I had a girl who is having trouble handling her dog. I spent a bit of one on one time with her & had her going pretty good, but what I did notice was that she runs her dog very stooped, not only her back but bent legs as well. It looks dreadful. Her dog is a large 400, almost 500, so not real tiny. Throughout the lesson I kept trying to get her to straighten up, but today I got an email from someone saying that, that is the new & modern way of handling your dog What am I missing here Am I not keeping up with modern training methods I have always believed that you should run with a fairly straight back, not just because it is better for your posture, but so the dog can follow the line of your shoulders. The only time for stooping is putting the dog into the tunnel & it must be hard to run fast stooped over. So please fill me in....am I training in the Dark Ages. If it is the modern way of running, then it certainly isn't working for this girl

[Kavik]

I have noticed that the handlers I have seen using the newer European handling do seem to run with a lower posture than I have been taught/used to running GD style or even LM style.

[The Spotted Devil]

It's not something I do or intend to do. Nor have I been told to do it. I take more care of my dog's physical health than my own as it is lol

[Vickie]

I don't run doubled over, but neither do I run with a straight back. Not sure if there is a "correct" way of doing anything anymore, but I find it much easier to run fast leaning forward just a little.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Vickie

[The Spotted Devil]

I haven't watched the video Vickie but what you describe sounds completely normal!

[sheena]

I don't run doubled over, but neither do I run with a straight back. Not sure if there is a "correct" way of doing anything anymore, but I find it much easier to run fast leaning forward just a little.

That looks fairly normal running to me with bending to put the dog into the tunnel. This girl in my class, if she bends over any further, she will fall on her nose & the person who emailed me to tell me "it is normal", that's the modern way of handling, told me she needs to bend over more to get her hand in front of her dog When they get into my class they have to start learning distance handling, so hopefully that will help. I did a bit of basic "distance" stuff with her & her dog last night & he improved out of sight. He's a dog that shuts down real easily & then runs off & I just feel that her crowding (leaning over him) like that is not helping his confidence....she is NOT a good listener

[J...]

You can't tell some people, sometimes they have to figure it out for themselves. You can lead a horse to water and all that, the trick is to make the horse a little thirsty first ;)

Jessica at ShapeUp would be the "bendiest" handler I can think of, yet she still spends nearly all her course time upright and moving.

My young BC has just started sequencing and is only just in 500, no way am I bending over to handle him as it doesn't allow me to move off as quickly as possible, and I'm going to need every ounce of speed I have for this one

[Tassie]

Nice videos. Yes, I'da gree - not that I've been doing any of the new stuff - but when you watch, say Susan Garrett running Feature in WAO, it's the same sort of thing - basically normal running posture, but bending to give a clear indication - e.g. of a tunnel, or of the correct path where there is an off course option - that shows in the Shae up one, and in Vickie's.

My young BC has just started sequencing and is only just in 500, no way am I bending over to handle him as it doesn't allow me to move off as quickly as possible, and I'm going to need every ounce of speed I have for this one

Jess. ... that's how I am with the misguided missile. I have to be moving (not sure I'd call what I do running), fairly upright so I can both set the line for him, and see where I need to get to. :laugh:

But I agree, you can't tell some people.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Just wondering if it has something to do with acceleration and deceleration cues.

Eg there are times you need the dog to keep moving but you need to be relatively still - so leaning forward like you're running faster than you are might keep the dog out and moving instead of coming in and stopping with you if you stood upright.

I would think this could apply if you wanted to send a dog into a tunnel or over a jump sequence and change direction yourself ie you needed to stop but the dog needs to keep going.

I often lean forward or crouch a bit and then bounce to simulate what running looks like from a distance to get my dog to move faster. So I guess in a way - she's trained me to do that.

[sheena]

You can't tell some people, sometimes they have to figure it out for themselves. You can lead a horse to water and all that, the trick is to make the horse a little thirsty first ;)

Jessica at ShapeUp would be the "bendiest" handler I can think of, yet she still spends nearly all her course time upright and moving.

My young BC has just started sequencing and is only just in 500, no way am I bending over to handle him as it doesn't allow me to move off as quickly as possible, and I'm going to need every ounce of speed I have for this one

Well, mine is the third class she has been put into & the other two instructors have given up on her Thinking I might get a big whistle & everytime I see her running like a gorilla, I will give it a blast :laugh: A shame because she is a nice young girl, but unfortunately wont listen to instruction & her dog shuts down easily. It takes up valuable time for the rest of the class, but I guess we have to be tolerant. I have asked her to come to class ten minutes earlier so we can do a bit of one on one. If everything else fails, to be fair on the rest of the class, she may have to go back into beginners. She shouldn't be in my class, which is Advanced, but she has been coming to training now for two years & still cant run a sequence or do the poles

[J...]

Well, mine is the third class she has been put into & the other two instructors have given up on her Thinking I might get a big whistle & everytime I see her running like a gorilla, I will give it a blast :laugh: A shame because she is a nice young girl, but unfortunately wont listen to instruction & her dog shuts down easily. It takes up valuable time for the rest of the class, but I guess we have to be tolerant. I have asked her to come to class ten minutes earlier so we can do a bit of one on one. If everything else fails, to be fair on the rest of the class, she may have to go back into beginners. She shouldn't be in my class, which is Advanced, but she has been coming to training now for two years & still cant run a sequence or do the poles

Why do you have to be that tolerant? I think you've all been way more tolerant than most people would've been... she's been through 2 instructors and is onto her third that she won't listen to, she's hogging class time from those who probably are doing a good job, and she's been given two years of volunteer time. It's not fair on the other students who are progressing, and it's not fair on those of you who are volunteering their time to tolerate that crap. I'd cut her loose, ship her back to beginners! Tough love time

[The Spotted Devil]

I'm with Jess!

[Guest Clover]

Maybe she is just not coordinated? I know I can't run for anything & have been thinking if I were to take up agility I'd be laughed out of the ring :/.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Well, mine is the third class she has been put into & the other two instructors have given up on her

We used to have a "fun class" for people who didn't learn or want to learn, they just wanted to run round some equipment with their dogs (often on lead - argh). Just set up a simple course that could be done with dog on left the whole way round and left an instructor "supervising".

Any chance you could video this student and play it back and let her see for herself what you're talking about? Have some video of what normal people look like too.

Just set up a tripod somewhere and leave it running.

I must admit I'm pretty horrified about how I look running a course - most of my time my butt sticks out and my knees are knocked... but I'm nice to my dog and she looks like she's enjoying herself.

[dasha]

Maybe the teaching styles of the others didn't get the message through.

Maybe you could approach it as a challenge or opportunity to try different teaching styles.

I think blowing a whistle and embarrassing her in front of a class is probably not the best approach for a receptive pupil.

Really in a club situation, if people donate time to help/ teach, you can't force people to use the info they way you want them too.

Maybe she has a physical condition or issue that prevents her being as upright as you think she should be. Everyone has different physical capabilities and this may include posture or use of body.

Food for thought

[J...]

Lack of co-ordination is completely different to not listening to your instructors.

I'm far from particularly co-ordinated, and being less than streamlined means I stop and turn like a mack truck I still get out there and do it regardless :D

[sheena]

Maybe the teaching styles of the others didn't get the message through.

Maybe you could approach it as a challenge or opportunity to try different teaching styles.

I think blowing a whistle and embarrassing her in front of a class is probably not the best approach for a receptive pupil.

Really in a club situation, if people donate time to help/ teach, you can't force people to use the info they way you want them too.

Maybe she has a physical condition or issue that prevents her being as upright as you think she should be. Everyone has different physical capabilities and this may include posture or use of body.

Food for thought

Blowing the whistle was just a joke....there is no way I would want to embarrass anyone. I have invited her to come early to class so we can do some one on one training. If she is not prepared to do this, then I am going to try & get her moved back to beginners. I have three in my class, that have just come up, & the other two are blending in nicely as I make the exercises easier for them than the advanced group & spend more time with them. She doesn't have any physical disability & I believe she is the same in the obedience class. I would like to persevere for a bit longer for the sake of her dog who is clearly not enjoying himself A more frequent reward rate wouldn't go astray Not listening & not wanting to take on the info of the instructor, is OK providing it doesn't' impact on the other 8 or 9 people in the class who want to get on with it. Why come to class if they don't want to progress & learn something...may as well just take your dog to a dog park.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I haven't trained in agility for ages but I know when I used to do sequencing I would crouch into a stupid posture as well, couldn't help it, just a nervous thing I think. Also now that I have recovered from my back injury, I realise it might have been a subconscious thing to protect my lumbar spine.

I know they do clicker training for humans in gymnastics i.e. when you see something you like, you click, it helps give information to the brain and speeds muscle memory apparently...forgive me if that's a bad explanation I only saw a short TV segment on it.

I have in the past when training obedience said to people "I'll click, when I click YOU WILL REWARD THE DOG". It forces the reward rate up for the dog. :laugh: Obviously you can't click both dog and owner though! :laugh:

Edited May 23, 2014 by Staff'n'Toller

[sheena]

I haven't trained in agility for ages but I know when I used to do sequencing I would crouch into a stupid posture as well, couldn't help it, just a nervous thing I think. Also now that I have recovered from my back injury, I realise it might have been a subconscious thing to protect my lumbar spine.

I know they do clicker training for humans in gymnastics i.e. when you see something you like, you click, it helps give information to the brain and speeds muscle memory apparently...forgive me if that's a bad explanation I only saw a short TV segment on it.

I have in the past when training obedience said to people "I'll click, when I click YOU WILL REWARD THE DOG". It forces the reward rate up for the dog. :laugh: Obviously you can't click both dog and owner though! :laugh:

Karen Pryor started up the "clicker for humans" with a gymnastics class, but the parents were so horrified that she was training them like dogs, that she changed the name to "tagging" & that was OK :laugh: & yes it works well. Sometimes if I am training something with my dogs & it is difficult for me to really see what they are doing eg. back behind position in heeling, I will get OH to click & I treat.

With my class, if we get time at the end of the session, we do what I call a "chicken dance" where we run the course/exercise with our hands behind our backs & no voice...so using only shoulders & momentum to guide the dog. It is pretty hard to do this without standing up straight, but this girl manages to still run stooped. I must ask her if someone has maybe told her to handle her dog like that, because it was someone from the club who "advised" me that she needs to lean over more to get right in the dog's face

[skip]

I'll second the video. I was horrified when i first watched myself as having 2 small dogs I was bending over a bit. Did that change FAST!!! So maybe that will work.

Find out where she is getting her training from besides you? And tell the helpful advice person who emailed you to kindly ........ well something

And the comment about getting your hand in front of the dog made me laugh. I'm busting a gut just staying somewhere near my young kelpie.

Isn't teaching fun! Good on you for caring.