Registration Papers

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I got my pug! He does not come with papers, but the owner is registered with Dogs Victoria, so she is trusted. Her reasoning for not providing even limited papers is that she did not want anyone to have her champion bloodlines, as it took her a long time to get the sire.

Of course, I checked with Dogs Victoria and the receptionist who picked up stated registered breeders of Dogs Vic SHOULD provide papers, but do not need to, if they dont want to.

I am fine with this, if the original person I was talking about (Rose) was as honest as this breeder was, we would have considered a puppy without papers like our Magma now.

Being registered with dogs Victoria - by itself does not equate with "trusted". There are a few who meet the rules but I wouldn't want a dog from them - mostly because they have far too many litters for the puppies to get enough human attention (socialisation).

If she didn't want the puppies she sold to be breeding - she should get them desexed before she sells them.

Was it her that gave you the phone number for "Dogs Victoria"? And did "Dogs Victoria" confirm that she was indeed registered with them.

This is from the Dogs Victoria Website:

http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/AboutUs/ConstitutionRulesRegs.aspx

4.1.5.13 A member who breeds a litter of dogs, the parents of which are registered or eligible for

registration with the VCA or other recognised canine controlling body, must register such litter, all

of the living progeny in such litter at one and the same time within three calendar months of the

date of whelping. Registration after three months requires Management Committee approval.

Such approval may be delegated to the Chief Executive.

[Steve]

I got my pug! He does not come with papers, but the owner is registered with Dogs Victoria, so she is trusted. Her reasoning for not providing even limited papers is that she did not want anyone to have her champion bloodlines, as it took her a long time to get the sire.

Of course, I checked with Dogs Victoria and the receptionist who picked up stated registered breeders of Dogs Vic SHOULD provide papers, but do not need to, if they dont want to.

I am fine with this, if the original person I was talking about (Rose) was as honest as this breeder was, we would have considered a puppy without papers like our Magma now.

Being registered with dogs Victoria - by itself does not equate with "trusted". There are a few who meet the rules but I wouldn't want a dog from them - mostly because they have far too many litters for the puppies to get enough human attention (socialisation).

If she didn't want the puppies she sold to be breeding - she should get them desexed before she sells them.

Was it her that gave you the phone number for "Dogs Victoria"? And did "Dogs Victoria" confirm that she was indeed registered with them.

This is from the Dogs Victoria Website:

http://www.dogsvicto...nRulesRegs.aspx

4.1.5.13 A member who breeds a litter of dogs, the parents of which are registered or eligible for

registration with the VCA or other recognised canine controlling body, must register such litter, all

of the living progeny in such litter at one and the same time within three calendar months of the

date of whelping. Registration after three months requires Management Committee approval.

Such approval may be delegated to the Chief Executive.

[juice]

Not knowing anything about papers etc, but the comment that jumped out was , the parents looked healthy and well fed, that is no indication of health checks being done.

I believe pugs, like all breeds have health issues that need testing for, saying she will guarantee the pups health is fine, if you think she will follow thru with it.

[Jed]

I got my pug! He does not come with papers, but the owner is registered with Dogs Victoria, so she is trusted. Her reasoning for not providing even limited papers is that she did not want anyone to have her champion bloodlines, as it took her a long time to get the sire.

Of course, I checked with Dogs Victoria and the receptionist who picked up stated registered breeders of Dogs Vic SHOULD provide papers, but do not need to, if they dont want to.

I am fine with this, if the original person I was talking about (Rose) was as honest as this breeder was, we would have considered a puppy without papers like our Magma now.

Good luck with your pug, I wish you great success and a long and happy life for the dog. As far as I can see, all the breeder has shown is that she is dishonest. If she really didn't want anyone to use her bloodlines, she could have put the pup on limited register; or put him in joint names until he was desexed. This protects her interests as well as fulfilling her obligations to Dogs Vic.

Fact is, the breeder is disobeying the code of ethics of Dogs Victoria. If she is dishonest enough to dishonour an obligation she had to them, she could more easily dishonour any dealings with you. You have no guarantee that she will honour what she says about health issues.

Pugs, even well bred ones, can have huge and expensive health problems. A pug from a brother sister mating can have dreadful health problems, costing thousands to fix. Where is the proof this pup is not a result of such a mating, and is not registered because Dogs Vic would not register them?

And there is no proof that he is indeed, purebred. There is no proof of anything much, really, except that you have spent a lot of money on a pup with no bona fides.

I can never understand why people buy pups from dodgy and dishonest breeders, who have proved they are totally unethical. Anyone who buys a pug from less than well conformed parents from ethical breeders is immediately in a world of hurt. A lot of breeds can have conformation problems, and never have a day's illness. If pugs don't conform to the standard, they are very likely to be chronically ill, unable to breathe .... oh, I could go on and on.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Jed

[vanillan]

Anne: the first breeder refused to give any information and without papers, she was rude and she didnt know anything about the breed. The second breeder, showed proof of being a registered breeder, she answered our checklist of questions very well and to the satisfaction of what a reg breeder should he like. We got firsthand info from Dogs Vic that papers arent needed. Thats why we agreed to buy from this second one, thats the difference.

Rebanne: thanks, it helps a lot!

Steve: I got the number directly from the Dogs Vic website, and I rang after arriving and whilst the breeder was there. I took the word of the receptionist on the line, and why wouldnt I? Shes from Dogs Vic, I couldnt really argue. I feel sad that even Dogs Vic doesnt equate to be trusted. If even Dogs Vic cant be trusted, then who can? Dogs Vic did not confirm, but they told me how I can confirm it, with the card including her member number and her expiry date.

Juice: We know where she lives, so hopefully, we wont need to go that far =p

Jed: Thanku so much and very true about what you are saying and asking. If any health issues arise (hopefully never), I will of course still keep our forever boy. We are aware of most common health issues of the breed from research and reading, so I do hope nothing does arise to those extents and that our pup is not a result from inbreeding. The breeder, as kind and open as she was, honestly seemed to care for her dogs and pups.

staffntoller and ososwift: if we honestly wanted a cheap pup or a pup now, I wouldnt have refused the first lady and I would get one from an unregistered breeder from trading post or gumtree or even a pet store that sells any other dogs for cheap. If I overlooked this issue, I wouldnt be posting here or bothervenquiring about this. I will only buy from people who have gone through my extensive checklist, including ringing the vets for proof of the parents and pups health whilst at the breeders place, which I did. I choose to support registered breeders and as mentioned earlier, I was informed by the receptionist that papers should be given, but they are not obligated to. I may be a little naive in not knowing the processes, and I may be too trusting in what others say, but what basis do I have for disagreeing with the Dogs Vic receptionist? I am certainly not in any rush to support breeders who lie to me, and that, in my defense, is not my fault.

Edited June 10, 2014 by vanillan

[VizslaMomma]

I may be a little naive in not knowing the processes, and I may be too trusting in what others say, but what basis do I have for disagreeing with the Dogs Vic receptionist? I am certainly not in any rush to support breeders who lie to me, and that, in my defense, is not my fault.

A little naive?

A seven page thread where people well versed in the in & outs of the dog world gave you advice.

Yet you went your own way.

C'est la vie

[Steph M]

I am certainly not in any rush to support breeders who lie to me, and that, in my defense, is not my fault.

Knowingly or not it sounds like you have.

Sounds very dodgy, I too can't understand not papering a pup unless you have something to hide.

[Queen Maeby]

Sounds dodgy as.

[Aziah]

I may be a little naive in not knowing the processes, and I may be too trusting in what others say, but what basis do I have for disagreeing with the Dogs Vic receptionist? I am certainly not in any rush to support breeders who lie to me, and that, in my defense, is not my fault.

Sigh.

It is becoming more and more apparent that more and more people are not willing to take responsibility for their own decisions/mistakes.

"Not my fault"?...you made a choice/decision = your fault! (unless someone was holding a gun at your head...a real gun).

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aziah

[~Anne~]

vanillan, good luck with your pup. It seems you're happy with your decision and it is your decision to make and no one else's, so you need to feel happy with it.

I've owned pugs for around 40 years now. I also ran a pug rescue for several years. I've seen and cared for many, many pugs with health issues. I know what it is like to care for a pug with health issues, many of which could have been prevented with a good breeding program. The cost both time wise and financially can be huge.

Good luck and don't forget to post photos of your puppy. Everyone loves a cute puppy pic.

[oakway]

Vanillian you have been given good sound advise that you asked for by ethical experienced breeders, if things go wrong in time please don't come back and complain.