Registration Papers

[vanillan]

But she had a Dogs Victoria card (just like Dogs Vic described) and a certificate. Can someone from Dogs Victoria confirm this fact?

Is anyone from Dogs Victoria also able to confirm member numbers? When I rang Dogs Vic, I guess they didnt/couldnt at the time.

I have the breeder's member number and her place looks good, she also ticked my extensive checklist of questions.

I am very happy to receive my Magma, and to be honest, he is happy with no health problems, both parents are in great shape, not overfed, her place is clean enough, plus she did give a gaurantee of any health and genetic defects with the puppy.

The person who answered the phone was female, Lyra, Lila, couldnt hear properly, I rang Dogs Vic 2-3 times in one hour during inspecting!

Not to sound rude, but she did not seem like she didnt knew what she was going to say and had to put me on hold a few times (most likely to ask someone else) and she called me back upon request. When I asked her to check the member number, she had to call back and stated to just check for a card, which I did with the breeder.

Edited June 8, 2014 by vanillan

[Amax-1]

you've been lied to. VCA members have to provide papers with all pups. And there is no valid reason to not supply papers. None whatsoever.

They may "have" to provide papers but they don't. What they do for example is a litter of 6, 3 are sold without papers at a reduced price, meaning the buyers can't breed from the unpapered pups with registered breeding's, so the breeder registers only 3 pups meaning only 3 were born or only 3 lived from the litter. Dogs Vic are none the wiser how many pups were born/lived from the litter and all the breeder has to say if questioned is 3 pups died. The people who own the 3 unpapered pups are not going to dob the breeder in for non compliance, so that's how they sell some papered and some unpapered.

[cannibalgoldfish]

Her reasoning for not providing even limited papers is that she did not want anyone to have her champion bloodlines, as it took her a long time to get the sire

This has been said a few times and obviously you won't listen.

RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!

The above statement is bull.. You don't want someone to have your bloodlines? Desex pups before you rehome. I hope you haven't put money down on this pup....

(yes I know different breeder from the first but the next sounds just as crap)

Edited June 8, 2014 by cannibalgoldfish

[Kirislin]

She is supposed to sell her pup on the limited register and make sure you understand it is not to me bred from. She's not abiding by the code of practice.

[Kirislin]

I got my pug! He does not come with papers, but the owner is registered with Dogs Victoria, so she is trusted. Her reasoning for not providing even limited papers is that she did not want anyone to have her champion bloodlines, as it took her a long time to get the sire.

Of course, I checked with Dogs Victoria and the receptionist who picked up stated registered breeders of Dogs Vic SHOULD provide papers, but do not need to, if they dont want to.

I am fine with this, if the original person I was talking about (Rose) was as honest as this breeder was, we would have considered a puppy without papers like our Magma now.

she should be sacked. Why are we (members) paying so much to this organisation every year if this is what they say to people?

Edited June 8, 2014 by Kirislin

[tdierikx]

The non-provision of papers doesn't stop people breeding from the dog... all it means is that you can't register the offspring as pedigreed with the ANKC. Same as with Limit Registered pups.

I'd steer well clear of any registered breeder who sells unpapered pups as a matter of course... no matter what their reasoning for doing so is (or how convincing). It would make me wonder what other codes of conduct of the canine body in their state that they may be doing and end run around...

T.

[dragonwoman]

But she had a Dogs Victoria card (just like Dogs Vic described) and a certificate. Can someone from Dogs Victoria confirm this fact?

But is the membership current? If DV were reticent maybe there is an issue with the person, like they are suspended or something..............

[RallyValley]

This breeder sounds a bit dodgy! It costs about $40 to register a pup. If you don't want people to breed from pups you sell find good puppy buyers that you can trust, offer a desexing rebate or desex pups before they are gone and of course put pups on limited register.

Did the breeders membership card have their prefix written on it? It's quite possible one or both parents are on limited register, which is why pups are going out unregistered.

[Steve]

And here in lies the problem

You can be a Vicdogs member and not even own an ANKC registered dog . If your dogs are not ANKC registered you can breed them and sell them without papers and still be within the code and still be a Vic dogs member. You can also register the dogs and still not have to give papers as long as the purchaser agrees with that in writing. See below.

Victoria has a unique situation where the type of exemptions given to Vicdogs members enables them to breed more dogs without the regs placed on those who are not. So there are a ton of Vicdogs members who breed dogs which are not papered. Labradoodle breeders who are now breeding Australian Cobberdogs have been Vicdogs members for years and still are and have never bred an ANKC registered pure bred dog and never will. Many working dog breeders that I know personally and who are not members of any other group are breeding their dogs without papers as Vicdogs members simply for the exemptions they receive by being members. As long as the dogs they are breeding are not pure bred and the only way they determine a pure bred is if they are registered with papers then they are within the code.In fact as long as the dog DOESN'T have papers they can do as they wish AND STILL BE VIC DOGS MEMBERS.

20.1.15 A member shall not permit any of that member's pure bred dogs to be mated to a dog of a different breed, to a cross bred dog,to an unregistered dog of the same breed, or to a dog not on the Main Register without the prior approval of the Victorian Canine Association Inc.

And

20.1.23 A member shall provide to all recipients of dogs sold or otherwise disposed of by that member, written details of:

20.1.23.1 The breed characteristics;

20.1.23.2 Vaccination record and / or requirements;

20.1.23.3 Responsible dog ownership information; and

20.1.23.4 All documentation required by the Victorian Canine Association Inc

And

4.4.4 Except as provided for in these Regulations any member selling, supplying or disposing of a dog to

(15/11/11) another person must supply to that person the signed registration certificate duly completed with the

name and address ofthe person and the transfer date, within one calendar month of disposal unless Management Committee otherwise directs. A member shall not include any contractual provisions contrary to this regulation.

And

4.4.5 Any member who sells a registered dog without transfer of registration to the purchaser must obtain the agreement of the purchaser in writing that the dog will either not be transferred into the name of the purchaser or de registered with the VCA.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Steve

[Steve]

Also - This one means that as long as the dog has a main register paper you can allow your main register dog to mate with it - even if its not in the new owners name on the registry and the owner is not a Vicdogs member.

20.1.15 A member shall not permit any of that member's pure bred dogs to be mated to a dog of a different breed, to a cross bred dog,to an unregistered dog of the same breed, or to a dog not on the Main Register without the prior approval of the Victorian Canine Association Inc.

What a joke

[OSoSwift]

Sounds very dodgy. A pup can still be bred from papers or not. To avoid someone breeding registered dogs all she has to do is put the pup on limited register. It costs very little.

The receptionist needs a good boot up the arse!

[~Anne~]

You were wary of the first breeder because you weren't getting papers and now you're buying from another who is offering the exact same thing?

I don't get it.

If you want a dog that has no history then buy it. There is no guarantee either of the two pups you decided on will be healthy. In fact, there is no guarantee with any breeder. However, your chances of buying a healthy, well bred little pug pup will be greatly increased if you buy from a breeder that follows a code of personal values and ethics.

In the purebred world, selling a dog without an ancestoral history pretty much guarantees you don't follow the same personal values or ethics that the rest of the purebred breeder world does.

If you're happy to risk that, then buy the pup and don't complain. You now know enough to make a decision and if you don't feel you know enough then don't rush in to buy one. Sit back and learn. There will always be pug puppies for sale.

[VizslaMomma]

My cynical mind wonders if it's one & the same breeder

Edited June 9, 2014 by VizslaMomma

[Steve]

Sounds very dodgy. A pup can still be bred from papers or not. To avoid someone breeding registered dogs all she has to do is put the pup on limited register. It costs very little.

The receptionist needs a good boot up the arse!

The receptionist gave the correct information

[Rebanne]

Sounds very dodgy. A pup can still be bred from papers or not. To avoid someone breeding registered dogs all she has to do is put the pup on limited register. It costs very little.

The receptionist needs a good boot up the arse!

The receptionist gave the correct information

but there are conditions to that regulation: buyer must agree in writing to not getting the papers transferred or dog must be deregistered. Dog/pup still needs to be registered though.

[Rebanne]

4.4.4

Except as provided for in these Regulations any member selling, supplying or disposing of a dog to another person must supply to that person the signed registration certificate duly completed with the name and address of the person and the transfer date, within one calendar month of disposal unless Management Committee otherwise directs. A member shall not include any contractual provisions contrary to this regulation

.

4.4.5

Any member who sells a registered dog without transfer of registration to the purchaser must obtain the

agreement of the purchaser in writing that the dog will either not be transferred into the name of the

purchaser or deregistered with the VCA.

4.4.6

A member shall not sell any dog which is not registered, nor use in connection with the sale or disposal

of a dog, VCA, registration forms and/or documents in such a manner as to cause the purchaser to

believe the dog being sold is registered with the VCA

Edited June 9, 2014 by Rebanne

[Steve]

4.4.4

Except as provided for in these Regulations any member selling, supplying or disposing of a dog to another person must supply to that person the signed registration certificate duly completed with the name and address of the person and the transfer date, within one calendar month of disposal unless Management Committee otherwise directs. A member shall not include any contractual provisions contrary to this regulation

.

4.4.5

Any member who sells a registered dog without transfer of registration to the purchaser must obtain the

agreement of the purchaser in writing that the dog will either not be transferred into the name of the

purchaser or deregistered with the VCA.

4.4.6

A member shall not sell any dog which is not registered, nor use in connection with the sale or disposal

of a dog, VCA, registration forms and/or documents in such a manner as to cause the purchaser to

believe the dog being sold is registered with the VCA

Yep except that she told her how to find out if she was a Vic dogs member - she saw the member card not how to find out if the parents were papered or if the pup would come with papers.

[Staff'n'Toller]

DogsVic won't give out any information regarding a breeders' registration due to privacy I have personally found.

The OP obviously wants a pup now, or a cheaper pup or both, so is willing to overlook this issue.

Not much else to say, really.

[OSoSwift]

The OP obviously wants a pup now, or a cheaper pup or both, so is willing to overlook this issue.

Not much else to say, really.

yep I agree

[puglvr]

PMMe Van I should be able to tell you if this person is legit.