Dogsfevr Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 In WA we don't have to sell with papers BUT all pups must be registered . Simply ask the breeder for there prefix & membership # (i presume with dogsVic) easy to check . The problem is the word "registered " it could mean DogsVic or the parents are council registered , The breeder can also show there membership card which has these details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puglvr Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Or you cam PM or contact me at [email protected] I am the secretary of the Pug Club of Victoria and would be very interested to find out if it is one of our members doing the wrong thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 It used to be common having a choice between papered and non papered I think before limited register evolved where non papered pups were cheaper. If the breeders are over 50 odd years old, they may be a bit old school perhaps, or the sire or dam maybe on limited reg and they can't register the litter anyway telling you some BS to justify it? In the 40 years I have been involved in the pure breed dog world it has never been and option to sell with or without papers in Victoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanillan Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Thankyou for all your support. Keep in mind, I am new at buying a purebred pup. This will be my first, so I thought I may not be understanding what she stated properly but I contacted her and the converstaion went something like this My exact SMS: Hi Rose, Jus a few questions: 1) I was wondering what your prefix is? 2) And also can I confirm that your pups are purebred but are without papers? 3) So they will not be registered as well? 4) And that the puppy, be ause its not going to be registered, there are no papers to be transferred to me? 5) May I also ask what health tests have been done on the parents? Thanks She rang me back and stated that I seemed to have lots of questions, and what the problem was? I asked her what her kennel club name is, and that I was just curious. Rose stated "prefix name means nothing" and that I will get to see the parents anyway. She then asked me if I knew what pugs look like. I asked her of course, I have done my research (I was thinking it doesnt take a genius to know what a pug is!). Asked again what her kennel name was and she clearly stated that "I dont need to tell you what my prefix is" When asking why not and shouldnt she be proud of her prefix/kennel name is, she stated she IS proud and its not a really good idea and she thought about this. She then changed the topic to my living arrangements because its a unit with no backyard, and I have high demands. She states that she has never gone through so much trouble in purchasing a puppy in her 15years of breeding, "breeders have rights" and she didnt like to be discriminated with so much queries and questions. I apologised and stated I didnt mean to offend her. She then said she wouldnt sell me a puppy and hungup. Can people go around saying they are registered breeders when they are not? Are there any laws against that? If not, is there anything we can do about this? In my opinion, I wont buy from her, but I cant prove shes not registered. Her ad is still online (trading post, I know, i know! but I was looking at all options for a pug) and I have all her details just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) Can people go around saying they are registered breeders when they are not? Are there any laws against that? If not, is there anything we can do about this? In my opinion, I wont buy from her, but I cant prove shes not registered. Her ad is still online (trading post, I know, i know! but I was looking at all options for a pug) and I have all her details just in case. Yes, they can and yes, they do. Happens all the time on Gumtree and the Trading Post. It sounds to me like this person is not an ANKC registered breeder. There is no need to be evasive about having a prefix unless, of course you don't. Contact the Pug Club and get a steer towards a decent registered breeder with pups. Edited May 16, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Can people go around saying they are registered breeders when they are not? Are there any laws against that? If not, is there anything we can do about this? In my opinion, I wont buy from her, but I cant prove shes not registered. Her ad is still online (trading post, I know, i know! but I was looking at all options for a pug) and I have all her details just in case. Take it as a lucky escape for yourself. Good Luck with finding a better choice for your new puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanillan Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 yeh, Im very shaken by that experience and her snap at me. I will definitely get the list of reg breeders from VCA/ANKC. i guess in a way Im grayeful it happened to me, so I can learn. And all the replies have given me great information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainy Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Wow im glad you didn't get a puppy from them, contact puglvr above iv heard nothing but great things about the pug club of Vic. i hope your next experience is much better :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Sounds like you had a narrow escape there vanillan! Pugs are definitely one of those breeds you want to know exactly what you are getting. Good luck finding a pup, when you have your new baby the wait will all be worth it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Thankyou for all your support. K p Can people go around saying they are registered breeders when they are not? Are there any laws against that? If not, is there anything we can do about this? They may well be registered. Registered with the council to breed dogs. I have looked at a site today in total disgust. There are at least 15 stupid named cross breeds & they proudly state they are registered breeders. Registered with the council to allow this & registered as a business. You now know the right questions to ask but do still visit any breeder & ensure that you meet the dog family & are happy with the conditions the dogs & pups are reared in & the care & condition of the dogs. You need to feel comfortable & confident with the person. Good luck. Post photos of your new baby soon :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Lucky escape there I think. Good luck with finding a puppy. Hopefully someone from here can help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanillan Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) After that, its quite shocking. Its always been on my to do list: to visit the parents, living arrangements etc. The ANKC and VCA websites are great for info, along with other peoples posts on other topics in this forum and I will be such a proud parent, I will definitely show photos of my puppy. Edited May 16, 2014 by vanillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I would ring the Pug club or as a member stated here PM them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 vanillan Well, Done you!! Coming here and listening - then sending that sms - that took courage :) A very important lesson has been learned ..and I hope you continue to add to your new found store of the perils and pitfalls of pugs !! :D Ask away when you think you've found your breeder ... good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well done for coming here and asking the question first. :) She is obviously not registered and is deflecting back onto you because you are asking questions she can't answer. Pugs are so great but you need a breeder who is open and honest and will provide advice on health and training after the purchase, if you need it. Good luck with your search. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajirin Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 vanillan Well, Done you!! Coming here and listening - then sending that sms - that took courage :) A very important lesson has been learned ..and I hope you continue to add to your new found store of the perils and pitfalls of pugs !! :D Ask away when you think you've found your breeder ... good luck! +1 glad people are asking questions before letting people take them for a ride and take their money. Definitely sounds like a deshonko puppy maker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Good on you for checking further and still ask all your questions particularly the health ones from all the breeders you contact. And just for others reading - not all breeders that advertise on gumtree or trading post are shonky. If the good guys don't advertise where the bad guys do then people will never have a chance to get a good quality dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) I am about to buy a pug puppy from a registered breeder but they state that they wont provide/get registration papers for the puppy, or transfer papers to us, as its "too much of a hassle" to transfer the title of the puppy, so they are not going to have papers. Is this normal? They said they will provide the lineage of the parents, which is great but shouldnt we receive info on the pup as well? How important are the papers to pet owners, not using the pup for show/competition or breeding? The microchipping will be under our details and our choice of the dog name, so at least the puppy is ours in the microchip. Are we able to register the pup ourselves as long as we get the breeder to sign? Or can we register without the breeders signature? I would check with the state controlling body where you are getting your dog. They can tell you whether the breeder is truly registered. Unfortunately many BYB breeders are "registered" with their local council or the dogs themselves a registered with the local council. That means diddly squat to pedigree. Some may also be registered with one of the pet dog industry groups (like the ones breeding for pet shops). I have seen on Gumtree many that fall into this category. Of course some proper registered breeders advertise there as well, and they should be able to tell their prefix straight up. If they can't or won't then good chances they are just BYB or not following the code of ethics It is a requirement of breeders now to register all pups within the litter. In qld it is mandatory to provide papers to the buyer. All the breeder has to do to transfer them is sign the. Ack of the certificate. Not too hard. If she registered them at 6 weeks after the microchips were some, they should have been sent back to her by the CCC by 8 weeks. Sounds dodgy. I would avoid this "breeder" I hope you have not paid a deposit already. Which you may not get back Edited May 16, 2014 by Mystiqview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) Genuine Canine Association registered breeders need to reconsider the term Registered Breeder as it is not specific enough. Puppy buyers, (Joe Public) are not necessarily aware that Registered Breeder does not mean registered with their council or with the Pet Industry or any one of a multitude of other bodies. We need it to be common that we speak about Canine Council Registered Breeders and be prepared to explain what that means. Likewise with "papers". Any person selling a puppy can provide papers. What the papers are is another thing and a pedigree can be written by anyone, it is just the ancestors of the pup. The vast majority of puppies sold are sold to pet owners who do not give two hoots about registration with a canine society and do not go to dog forums for information or advice before buying a pup. I guess it is all about Education and the Canine Associations have a big part to play in that along with the members of those associations. To the OP, I do hope you soon find a genuine breeder that can sell you a wonderful healthy pug puppy and that you spread widely with friends and others you experience. I'm also another one that would encourage you to contact the official Pug Club - in any State as they are usually run by people who have been around for many years, have the best interest of the breed at the forefront and have the correct information. I have seen many "splinter groups" for breeds formed and the information they give out is not always correct. Go to the real source of information. Edited May 16, 2014 by Airedaler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanillan Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 No deposit made, I will ensure all checks of the parents, puppies etc before committing. I need to be 150% certain. If she was at least honest enough and advised she wasnt a registered breeder, and her dogs happened to have pups, I can understand, and I would still consider her. But her personality reflects the way she treats her dogs and I do not, and hope no one else does fall into that trap. Thats why I found it strange when I've spoken to breeders here who are so open and willing to talk about these things, but she is not. So people can register with councils and as a breeding business aka BYBs? I agree with Airedaler, there should be a difference between Registered Breeder (with VCA, ANKC, or their state body) and a "registered breeder" from the council. Whether its a change of name from "registered breeder" to "Contract Breeder" for those people who arent true breeders with ANKC or meet CCC standards. That way, people will know what type of breeders they are. Or change the title to "Registered Breeder ANKC approved", and that all registered breeders MUST state their prefix/kennel mame. I realise people are very proud to display their kennel name, but it should be mandatory so noobs like me will even know the difference. I am now on the waiting list with a registered breeder found from Dogz Online. I am willing to wait, and all I ask for is a healthy happy pup. I will also contact the VCA about this and see if they are indeed a registered breeder who is breaking the code of ethics by not registering the pups. Thankyou all for your well wishes, it means a great lot to me after her goes at me, I really appreciate it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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