My Poor Boy Was Bitten Today.

[Scottsmum]

Title says it all really. We've now got a good sized puncture wound on our little foxie face!

We have a cafe which is actually a sports ground canteen near home which I frequent with Scottie (close to home, good parking, areas for him to play, only cafe in that general direction and great coffee). Anyhow, we were there today after obedience and Scottie was under the direct "care" of my hubby & off leash when he started "playing" - aka pinching the balls from - a group of dogs who had just arrived (a wire haired JRT, a mini foxie, something in between and a very large mixed bull breed). They were all pretty jacked up having just arrived.

Hubby was trying to hunt Scott away from the group - instead of picking him up and walking away (didn't have his leash on hand).

The others actually belonged to two owners - the owner of the large bull something was busy back at her car (not watching the circus unfold) because she wanted to find a ball for Scottie ... When apparently Scottie growled at the smaller dogs an the big girl went him.

Lots of screaming from Scottie and profuse apologies from the owners of the other dogs we ALL had our leisurely sunday cut short ... Quick trip to the vets to check the puncture on his head wasn't anything more sinister and it looks like I'll be drinking instant at work for a few weeks ... ($170 vet bill!)

When I asked hubby why he didn't intervene earlier he just said, he didn't think it would get out of hand so fast and "he thought it was bad for a dogs confidence to be picked up in that kind of situation".

Really bought home a few things:

We really need to step up on the basic training - Scotties recall is pretty good for me - he might ignore me less than once a month. I also know where to draw the line and remove him from situations. Hubby clearly doesn't.

I know what I need to do with him. I really need to turn a few of our evening games of fetch into a much more structured training sessions. Hubby also needs to incorporate some basics (sit and recall at least) into his day to day activities. + The reintroduction of random acts of training / random requests - which we've done in the past but let slip.

I suppose my big question is ... How do I "train" hubby?

He (hubby) won't listen to me, he won't assist in terms of basic training. He gets frustrated with Scott and simply gives up "he won't listen to me" is a common complaint. I tried to get him to take him to training every other week but Scottie was pretty naughty (aka playful) and hubby threw in the towel.

So.... What I do know is...

I can't have Scottie ignoring Hubby or choosing who and when he'll listen.

Anything we do needs to come from a 3rd party as my suggestions or requests will likely fall on deaf ears. (A person I used to know was given some cards (kind of like flash cards) with basic training tips on them once. Anyone know what I'm talking about or where to get them?)

Any tips? Any books for complete newbies which you'd recommend?

HALP!

Edited to add: I found the flash cards I mentioned above - they can be purchased here: http://www.muttswithmanners.com.au/#!product/prd1/1556877315/dog-obedience-flashcard---available-individually

Edited July 20, 2014 by Scottsmum

[Rebanne]

Realise Hubby is not going to come to the party and don't let him supervise the dog again

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Never a good idea to have a ball and dogs off leash like that if any of them are going to guard the ball, it will only lead to trouble.

I have a JRT like that, you couldn't let her off the lead near other dogs playing with a ball, she storms in and tries to take it away - not every dog will allow that to happen.

Glad it wasn't worse ...

[Starkehre]

How about... If Hubby wishes to take Scotty out, he keeps him on a short leash and under 100% supervision. If he can't comply, leave Scotty at home where he is safer and not causing an issue for other dogs. :)

I hear your frustration and am so glad that both myself and my Hubby are totally on the same page with our dog training and input.

Good luck with it all

[Scottsmum]

Realise Hubby is not going to come to the party and don't let him supervise the dog again

I'm sure we can find common ground, I just need to find the right way to do it.

Never a good idea to have a ball and dogs off leash like that if any of them are going to guard the ball, it will only lead to trouble.

I have a JRT like that, you couldn't let her off the lead near other dogs playing with a ball, she storms in and tries to take it away - not every dog will allow that to happen.

Glad it wasn't worse ...

Me too. As I'm sure you can appreciate it was all so fast. We were the only ones there and less than 5 minutes later it was done.

Not trying to absolve myself / us - we were very much in the wrong.

I'm sure we'll find something - we just need some good basics instruction and not from me. The bite might be enough to make him realise I'm not talking to hear my own voice.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Scottsmum

[persephone]

Hubby was trying to hunt Scott away from the group - instead of picking him up and walking away (didn't have his leash on hand).

BAD hubby, BAD !! *smacks Hubby with rolled-up newspaper* JOKE!! :)

ALWAYS have at least one leash on your person .

Good advice from others ..

maybe find a couple of cute 'man tricks' which hubby will find useful and funny ..and get him to teach Scotty? let them bond over something like "pick up the can/tools/socks" ?

[Canisbellum]

New hubby?

Sent from my Galaxy S5

[Leah82]

Hopefully this incident will encourage your hubby to step up his game.

Mine also has a lot of trouble dealing with unrealistic expectations. If Collie isn't working perfectly at obedience he gets frustrated and it makes the situation worse.

Have a talk to your husband about what happened and how you both can make sure it doesn't happen again, if it's important to your husband that he be able to take scottie to the park without you then he needs to step up when it comes to training. There's no point you doing all the training if you want him to respond to both of you.

And most of all your husband needs some patience, scottie is not going to learn everything over night so celebrate the small wins and give him every chance to succeed.

The things I find my husband doing are telling the dogs to stay once and then tell them off when they move, instead reinforce the stay as you are moving away and build up from there.

And expecting the dogs to come when they are clearly distracted, wait till they are closer or even walking towards you and then call.

[Mumsie]

Does your husband feed Scottie? if Scottie knows that hubby is in charge of the food he will probably listen to him better.

[mumof4girls]

Trade hubby in for a better model ? Lol men sometimes I wonder why we bother ...

:-)

[DobieMum]

Like our kids won't listen to us, but if somebody else says exactly the same thing, they think God has spoken.

Maybe get someone else, that he respects, to say something to him.

[raineth]

hmmm I'm thinking negative reinforcement for Hubby.

Get him to wear an L-Plate around his neck until he has mastered basic obedience and management with Scottie, at which point he can go without the L-Plate.

[Scottsmum]

Some really great suggestions there. Thanks all.

Hubby was trying to hunt Scott away from the group - instead of picking him up and walking away (didn't have his leash on hand).

BAD hubby, BAD !! *smacks Hubby with rolled-up newspaper* JOKE!! :)

ALWAYS have at least one leash on your person .

Good advice from others ..

maybe find a couple of cute 'man tricks' which hubby will find useful and funny ..and get him to teach Scotty? let them bond over something like "pick up the can/tools/socks" ?

This is such a great idea. I'm thinking of so many applications. (Oh - I was actually referring to the rolled up newspaper by the way :laugh: )

Hopefully this incident will encourage your hubby to step up his game.

Mine also has a lot of trouble dealing with unrealistic expectations. If Collie isn't working perfectly at obedience he gets frustrated and it makes the situation worse.

Have a talk to your husband about what happened and how you both can make sure it doesn't happen again, if it's important to your husband that he be able to take scottie to the park without you then he needs to step up when it comes to training. There's no point you doing all the training if you want him to respond to both of you.

And most of all your husband needs some patience, scottie is not going to learn everything over night so celebrate the small wins and give him every chance to succeed.

The things I find my husband doing are telling the dogs to stay once and then tell them off when they move, instead reinforce the stay as you are moving away and build up from there.

And expecting the dogs to come when they are clearly distracted, wait till they are closer or even walking towards you and then call.

Yes! This!!! Thanks :)

It's vital to everyones sanity that hubby can and will, happily walk him. He does morning walks and picks up my slack when I work late. I think hubby needs small wins too - I forget that he hadn't really owned a pet before moving in with me and my naughtier foxies. (They had dogs when he was a young kid but they were all larger working and retrieving breeds and from what I can tell they weren't really pets.)

Does your husband feed Scottie? if Scottie knows that hubby is in charge of the food he will probably listen to him better.

Hubby feeds him breakfast but he's not food driven. At. All. Will often go a whole weekend without eating much at all.

Trade hubby in for a better model ? Lol men sometimes I wonder why we bother ...

:-)

We had a quick chat today about some basic goals to help. I suggested getting him to sit x number of times on a walk, "bossing him around" in the house (e.g. practicing recall). I just explained that it's completely unacceptable that Scottie can hold a drop stay for me in class - under distraction but he won't sit for hubby.

Thanks again everyone.

I'll take this all on board and had a chat to a doggie loving work mate today ... If I can't get through to him I'll pay for some one on one with our obedience teacher but I'm sure we'll get there. I know it was said but I'm grateful it wasn't worse and it might just be the wake up call we all needed.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Scottsmum

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

My hubby is in the same boat as yours - he does not spend a lot of time with the dogs and when he occasionally does, it's to try out training methods of his #1 dog trainer Ceaser Milan, so he winds up using different methods to me. With Zeke this is not so much an issue. With Maya this could EASILY be an issue. Solution is I exercise Maya, and she is not allowed playtime around other dogs unless I am present. I have a hard time getting through to hubby when he is using a different training method to me (because Ceaser told him how he must be right) and I stick to being tactful where I can and just pointing out gently what how I do things with Maya is this way or that way. I cannot force him to listen to me... so I focus on getting Maya to listen to me instead :)

[dancinbcs]

Do keep in mind that some dogs are really one person dogs, especially males with a female owner and will only really obey one trainer. It may take a lot of time to get the dog to accept authority from someone else.

[Nic.B]

Realise Hubby is not going to come to the party and don't let him supervise the dog again

This is me well at least until you are all on the same page.

Pers idea of short, simple tricks and games is a great way to bond and build confidence.

I am a control freak esspecialy with dog to dog interatctions

Allowing unknown dogs to reach that level of arousal, and excitement with a toy gives me the willies!

Once the incident has occured you are simply in damage control, it's too late.

Understanding dogs body language and what it represents is important, great recall, contolled interactions (which is difficult at dog parks) and if things are getting a bit antsy, time out to settle down and think of something else, like you!

I agree with Dancinbcs your dog is probably looking to you rather than your Husband. I would guide the pair of them through things. I am sure your Husband has learnt from the experience, so it's probably a good time to begin training :)

[Leah82]

My hubby is in the same boat as yours - he does not spend a lot of time with the dogs and when he occasionally does, it's to try out training methods of his #1 dog trainer Ceaser Milan

Mine seems to get training methods out of thin air, one of his many techniques is he insists that Collie will get confused if you use 'heel' when stationary and moving, so it's 'heel' when standing still and 'walk' when you're moving :p

Luckily we're not planning to trial him, in the distant future when we get a puppy or 2 I'll insist he do it right

Edit: Chris, did you tell your hubby that Ceasar trains people not dogs :laugh:

Edited May 12, 2014 by Leah82

[Scottsmum]

I've always been the Mum/Bad cop of the house. Hubby is the fun one / let you do naughty things for the heck of it / bonding.

I'm also the one they come to for snuggles... so it all evens out.

I found the flash cards I was referring to... http://www.muttswithmanners.com.au/#!product/prd1/1556877315/dog-obedience-flashcard---available-individually

Thanks for all the comments and support. I know we were in the wrong but its still nice to know I'm not on my own. It's hard enough to train an adopted dog, let alone a stubborn man! God help us if we ever have kids!

[Scottsmum]

Had another altercation at the same park today. We didn't get bitten but it shook me up.

The park in question is about half way between home and sunday morning obedience. It's also on the direct route I take and the only place to get coffee on a sunday morning without deviating. It's also really nice coffee.

So today I popped in on my way to class and as I was talking towards the building I noticed a large black dog off lead with no owner in sight. Nothing too unusual, I noted it and figured I could get in and out without any trouble if I needed to. I turn the corner and there is the owner with a huge Am-Staff, also off lead, about 100 meters from the cafe. Scottie wags his tail, I order my coffee and we continue to sniff some trees.

Then the Staffy and the big black dog (a rotty) come bounding up and Scottie growls. The continue to crowd him and the owner is again, out of sight, I call out to the owner (who had seen me - we'd smiled at each other) and I said can you call your dogs off please. He says "they're OK" and I said, "no, they're really not".

Long story short - I had to yell at him to come and get his dogs, while he was telling me that "this is all your fault, your dog has attitude". To which I very quicky and strongly said Oh no, you can not blame this on me. My dog is on leash and I asked you to remove them. He tried to make amends from there but it was too late. It really left me shaken. At one stage he even tried to tell me that "Poko (not sure which one that was) is really good with other dogs" and he was probably trying to tell your dog (Scott)that everything was OK"

It's not often that I feel threatened by dogs but it was one step from very nasty.

I think I'm going to have to stop going there Which is a real shame because as I said, convenient and great coffee.

[Loving my Oldies]

No coffee is good enough to risk your dogs ..... and/or encounter irresponsible others. :)