steppenwolfstaffords Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) have just had a comment made to me that an AI mating litter would be born early then a live mating, why is this ? is it even true or just peoples weird ideas on things ? personally i dont see how it would make any difference and im talking about fresh collected dog standing next to bitch and AI done. (and this isnt the first time someone has said to me a bitch AId will whelp earlier) Edited May 9, 2014 by SteppenwolfKennels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Bitches whelp 63 days from ovulation, not from first mating, last mating, middle mating. When using AI "more" people would also prog test and inseminate at the 'right' time -usually immediately after ovulation - bitch whelps 63 days after ovulation so is one or two days "early" When doing a natural mating and not prog testing the bitch might be willing/interested several (or more!) days before ovulation, 63 days from first mating could be up to a week early than 63 days from ovulation, so bitch is "late". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenwolfstaffords Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Ah i see makes sense, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Actually most of the repro reports I have read - ovulation is not as precise as just one day.... generally it is accepted that ovulation can happen for perhaps 24-72 hours - hence gives some more variation to predicting whelping dates. Bitches can be very individual - from my own litters and ones I have helped - some bitches have very specific dates from mating - 2 bitches had 4 litters each all 58 days from 1st mating - 1 bitch has had 3 litters at 60 days from 1st mating - 2 have had 3 and 4 litters at 61 days - 7 have had some variety from 58-61 days from 1st mating. In the last 5 years we have done the progesterone tests where some of the bitches had fresh AI some had fresh AI + live mating - Prior to this we used to mate when the dog and bitch showed interest and usually 2 matings 24 hours apart. Can't say we feel there is much difference between fresh AI or live mating.... Generally nowdays I like to get an AI and then 24 hours later a live mating if possible...... just makes me feel more comfortable for good chance of good numbers.... Number of pups varied but it did seem that some bitches were prone to higher numbers and others to smaller - difficult to predict really - nor does there seem to be much to predict whether we get males or females or what colours....... so we still have to accept what nature provides...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenwolfstaffords Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Actually most of the repro reports I have read - ovulation is not as precise as just one day.... generally it is accepted that ovulation can happen for perhaps 24-72 hours - hence gives some more variation to predicting whelping dates. Bitches can be very individual - from my own litters and ones I have helped - some bitches have very specific dates from mating - 2 bitches had 4 litters each all 58 days from 1st mating - 1 bitch has had 3 litters at 60 days from 1st mating - 2 have had 3 and 4 litters at 61 days - 7 have had some variety from 58-61 days from 1st mating. In the last 5 years we have done the progesterone tests where some of the bitches had fresh AI some had fresh AI + live mating - Prior to this we used to mate when the dog and bitch showed interest and usually 2 matings 24 hours apart. Can't say we feel there is much difference between fresh AI or live mating.... Generally nowdays I like to get an AI and then 24 hours later a live mating if possible...... just makes me feel more comfortable for good chance of good numbers.... Number of pups varied but it did seem that some bitches were prone to higher numbers and others to smaller - difficult to predict really - nor does there seem to be much to predict whether we get males or females or what colours....... so we still have to accept what nature provides...... thank you for youre responce ...i just didnt understand how so many said AIs had a deffinately due date while lives can vary cos end of the day prog testing is just a guide too and not 100% precise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Steppenwolf Yes the Progesterone is a guide - but a pretty good guide. Have attached a chart if you are interested. Personally have bred some bitches when they have had readings from about 16nmol/L onwards up to about 40nmol/L - am still compiling this info with regard to litter numbers etc. The objective is so I have a better understanding and perhaps a better predictability.... hopefully. Also I am lucky to have a vet nearby who does their prog testing in house, so we can get results in about 2 hours. If your vet sends them out then timing could mean you are 24 hours before you have results which can be crucial at times. You will see that levels are given and then an Estimated time for breeding depending on the level.... Not precise as they give a couple of days. Hope you find this useful. ProgesteroneLevels.pdf Edited June 10, 2014 by alpha bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenwolfstaffords Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 Steppenwolf Yes the Progesterone is a guide - but a pretty good guide. Have attached a chart if you are interested. Personally have bred some bitches when they have had readings from about 16nmol/L onwards up to about 40nmol/L - am still compiling this info with regard to litter numbers etc. The objective is so I have a better understanding and perhaps a better predictability.... hopefully. Also I am lucky to have a vet nearby who does their prog testing in house, so we can get results in about 2 hours. If your vet sends them out then timing could mean you are 24 hours before you have results which can be crucial at times. You will see that levels are given and then an Estimated time for breeding depending on the level.... Not precise as they give a couple of days. Hope you find this useful. ProgesteroneLevels.pdf thank you for the info :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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