cavNrott Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the info Simply Grand. It always helps to be educated by the brains trust on DOL :) Looking forward to seeing more pics of the little cuties. efs Edited May 18, 2014 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I can understand euthing for cleft palates but think that is a bit over the top where just the lip is involved and the pup is otherwise feeding and growing okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Pup is already showing signs of not feeding correctly. Healthy Stafford pups suckle so hard it takes the bitch getting up and dragging them across the box for them to fall off. In the mean time while the inexperienced try this that and the other and put a baby through surgery, it's the pup that suffers. But hey, the bleeding hearts win while the animal suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Hav I missed something? White is an accepted colour for staffords if that is what you mean? Probably. She likes following me around and has this thing about killing and culling which in these circumstances I disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozzie Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Hav I missed something? White is an accepted colour for staffords if that is what you mean? Probably. She likes following me around and has this thing about killing and culling which in these circumstances I disagree with. Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Okaaayyy, two people said they didn't know they came in a certain colour, you told them to start a new thread and a couple of people confirmed they did in fact come in that colour. I'm really not sure how that conversation involved that but anywho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I am not a bleeding heart I am practical. I stated if the pup appeared to be holding its own I don't see the issue. I know a dog like this and her repair surgery took 10 minutes, 20 max. I saw her recently at 12 years of age. If the pup is not holding it's own then yes I agree euthanasia should definitely be considered. I asked the opinion of two stafford people I respect greatly and it appears that I am not a total idiot for thinking the way I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Agreed OSo, the pup in question is barely two days old, she's feeding from mum, getting a full belly and has gained weight. It's hardly at the point where Tesslc is making a "bleeding heart" decision to keep her alive and suffering for goodness sake. Tesslc, PLEASE don't be scared off by black & white views, you have a long way to go with this litter and there are plenty of us here willing to support you as best we can no matter what happens. Do be aware that your little cleft lip girl (or actually any of them) may go downhill and you may have a difficult decision to make but there is no need to assume the worst!! Edited May 18, 2014 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) A quick question for the breeders (as it applies here)... If this bitch has had one pup with a cleft lip, is the potential there for it to happen again, in subsequent litters, or is it a random act of nature and nothing to do with genetics? Sorry to go a bit off track but I thought perhaps the owner of the bitch might like to know the answer to this, if she doesn't already. Edited for typing.. Edited May 18, 2014 by Staffyluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 And if that's the case the breeder of these two dogs might also wish to know too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I don't think there are any plans for this bitch to be bred again but agree that her breeder should be aware of the cleft lip girl, and I expect she is because tesslc did say she has spoken to the breeder about the pregnancy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Gorgeous babies, and such a pretty mumma dog... May I suggest that you keep an eye (or ear) on the all white pup as it starts getting about - around 4-5 weeks of age - check whether she can hear ok, as some all white bull breed dogs can be deaf. The hare lip could be due to the very young age of the bitch, no? It's not completely uncommon for such a young mum to throw an abnormality, yet go on to breed true later. I thought that tesslc was wanting to spay her girl anyways, and this was an "oops" litter. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Cleft lips/pallets are common in the breed and most breeders put the bitches on a course of folic acid to help prevents this. Some lines are more common than others also. There is no guarantee that if she was bred from again that this would happen (especially if put to a different dog) but the percentages are high that it will. Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Agreed OSo, the pup in question is barely two days old, she's feeding from mum, getting a full belly and has gained weight. It's hardly at the point where Tesslc is making a "bleeding heart" decision to keep her alive and suffering for goodness sake. Tesslc, PLEASE don't be scared off by black & white views, you have a long way to go with this litter and there are plenty of us here willing to support you as best we can no matter what happens. Do be aware that your little cleft lip girl (or actually any of them) may go downhill and you may have a difficult decision to make but there is no need to assume the worst!! Thank God ! Perfect post for the op Simply Grand. Edited May 18, 2014 by Nic.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I dont know anything about raising pups, but could you bottle feed the pup aswell? She may be sucking, but at least with a bottle you can see if she is actually getting the milk? Agree about the white pup too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I would just be weighing her regularly to check that she is gaining weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Cleft lips/pallets are common in the breed and most breeders put the bitches on a course of folic acid to help prevents this. Some lines are more common than others also. There is no guarantee that if she was bred from again that this would happen (especially if put to a different dog) but the percentages are high that it will. Leanne Thanks Leanne. I didn't realise that folic acid could help prevent this. I find all this sort of genetic stuff so interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesslc Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hi all Unfortunately we had to euthanise the brindle girl yesterday - she went from having a very full belly to not feeding at all within a couple of hours. I think she must have had a cleft palate as well, but too small for the vet to pick up. Not sure why she went downhill so fast, but it was very obvious that she wasn't going to pull through without tube feeding and that's not something I was prepared to put her (or us) through. On the plus side, both the little whities are gaining weight like crazy - they have already doubled and then some their birth weight. The dam is doing well, although at night she does bring the pups onto my mattress, so I am operating on very little sleep out of fear I might roll on them. During the day she is fine, leaves them in the whelpin box, checks on them regularly and spends a lot of time in there with them, but after 10:00pm everything changes. I think she wants to be with me (she usually sleeps on our bed) and the puppies at the same time. Re their colours - our boy is predominately white with a couple of black patches. As a pup, he was almost pure white but developed quite a bit of pigmentation as he got older so that may happen with the white girl. We will be getting the dam spayed as soon as, so no worries re her breeding again. My understanding is that cleft palate is quite common in SBT nad my breeder is aware (and have had to deal with pups of their own having it). Anyway, all is going reasonably well. The dam is back to her usual self and pops in and out to play with our boy. More photos to come as the pups grow. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Sad to hear your girl didn't make it but well done on doing the right thing for her. Amazing people can make the correct decisions and not be, what was it???? "Bleeding hearts" when it is necessary. Funny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I'm sorry the little girl didn't make it; I was hoping she could defy the odds. I applaud you, Tessic, for being calm and cool in the face of opposition. And also to accept with grace the generous advise by so many DOLers. May your little brood continue to prosper and your girl and boy continue to give you love and delight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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