Tell Me Everything You Know About Arousal

[raineth]

It seems to me my girl dog, Delta, has a bit of a problem with arousal.

There are lots of things that trigger her into an over-aroused state, such as being cold, being wet, windy weather, prey items... The list goes on really. She even gets into a state of high arousal when she sees Digby is wet.

Her arousal can make her super excited, or frustrated, or just 'wild'.

Arousal is not something I understand particularly well. I would be really interested to hear anyone's opinions on it, including things about managing it, why it happens, other resources, whether you've known a dog that seems to get overly aroused very easily... Anything really :)

Currently I have incorporated BAT, CC, Sophia Yin exercises and impulse control exercises into our training. These have resulted in improvements... But I feel as though they have only made improvements in specific situations and I guess I am hoping there might be some things I could do that would have more of a global effect?

[Loving my Oldies]

It sounds to me as though your dog could have the doggy equivalent of ADHD. Have you spoken to the vet about it. I don't know what the initials you posted stand for, I'm sorry .

I'm not sure it is in the same vein, but I have a dog who is terrified of storms and if I can see by her behaviour that one is coming, or it is evident from the skies, she gets a quarter of valium (she is tiny). There don't appear to be any side affects at all but in very little time at all, she is just normal again.

Maybe having some on hand to try for more extreme times would be a possibility.

[raineth]

I have mentioned it to the vet, but I haven't actually made an appointment specifically about it, and I probably need to, as they don't seem concerned when I mentioned it to them when she was having her vacs for training club.

I should say that she does spend a lot of time being 'good', just sleeping or lazing on her bed. So she isn't 'cracker' (our pet term for it) all day, or anything. But yeah, when she is like that you could possibly liken it to ADHD.

She is always so much worse in winter because of the cold (I do walk her with her rug on but it only helps a little bit) and we spend most of the walk using techniques and training to keep her focused etc and stopping her from tipping over the edge into cracker land.

BAT stands for behavioural Adjustment Training and uses negative reinforcement and keeping dogs under threshold.

CC stand for counter conditioning, which is just conditioning a different emotional response to something. :)

[persephone]

over-aroused state, such as being cold, being wet, windy weather, prey items... The list goes on really. She even gets into a state of high arousal when she sees Digby is wet.

what do you call 'over arousal' ? what does she do ?

If I bath one of teh dogs - the others will usually show the "Yes! let's go run & dry off"/crazy after bath behaviour ... In wet/windy weather they will become alert, sometimes go on tippy toes -and do lots of air sniffing - enjoying teh new smells :) When weather is cold/damp - scent hangs around more ..and the dogs here enjoy that immensely :)

Prey items - yes, well........ we are HUNTING !

Our dogs are allowed this behaviour ..and I consider it normal for them - it may be both unwanted and abnormal for many ....

Edited May 4, 2014 by persephone

[raineth]

By over-arousal I mean she gets to the point where she loses impulse control, has lots of trouble focusing and just wants to do lots of zoomies.

As you say Perse, quite a lot of dogs get after-bath zoomies, But Del goes like that from lots of things!

Like she can only play with Digby for a little bit before she gets so over-excited that she just zoomies instead. It also happens if we play with her.

It's not such a big deal when we're at home. But it is a problem if we are on a walk, and I can never let her off lead because of it either. If she was let offlead and something made her get overly aroused, well so many things could go wrong. She has also hurt herself by running into things or off things because she makes poor decisions when she is in that state.

She is a very emotional dog, it's like she feels all emotions very, very strongly and gets overwhelmed by them. It makes her a lovely dog in many ways, as she is very loving. I still wouldn't mind her just being a little more relaxed and less on a hair-trigger to crazy land especially when out and about.

Edited May 4, 2014 by raineth

[persephone]

Ah.... that does sound a bit dangerous , yes. have you tried ADAPTIL ? Thundershirt?

[hankdog]

What I know is human based so may not apply to dogs. Arousal is an internal state and surprisingly Mawson proposed that ADHD sufferers have a low internal arousal and are constantly and compulsively paying attention to external stimuli to increase their internal arousal level. Its counter to what you expect for ADHD. Persons with a high internal arousal often seek to exclude stimuli.

[Aidan3]

Do you do that game, I forget the popular name but I think it's what Susan Garrett calls it, "Go Wild, Then Freeze" with her?

[raineth]

What I know is human based so may not apply to dogs. Arousal is an internal state and surprisingly Mawson proposed that ADHD sufferers have a low internal arousal and are constantly and compulsively paying attention to external stimuli to increase their internal arousal level. Its counter to what you expect for ADHD. Persons with a high internal arousal often seek to exclude stimuli.

very interesting Hankdog :) yeah that makes sense, similar to people with ASD when there senses are understimulated will often engage in behaviour that most other people would find too intense.

Do you do that game, I forget the popular name but I think it's what Susan Garrett calls it, "Go Wild, Then Freeze" with her?

hmm no, is it a bit like the one Ian Dunbar talks about, he calls it 'Jazz up and settle down'?

[m-j]

It seems to me my girl dog, Delta, has a bit of a problem with arousal.

There are lots of things that trigger her into an over-aroused state, such as being cold, being wet, windy weather, prey items... The list goes on really. She even gets into a state of high arousal when she sees Digby is wet.

Her arousal can make her super excited, or frustrated, or just 'wild'.

Arousal is not something I understand particularly well. I would be really interested to hear anyone's opinions on it, including things about managing it, why it happens, other resources, whether you've known a dog that seems to get overly aroused very easily... Anything really :)

Currently I have incorporated BAT, CC, Sophia Yin exercises and impulse control exercises into our training. These have resulted in improvements... But I feel as though they have only made improvements in specific situations and I guess I am hoping there might be some things I could do that would have more of a global effect?

Can't tell you much about arousal but I have the same problem with my Greys (but I don't think to the same extent) one in particular and with the young dogs at work. I use massage (Greys are very responsive to massage) when or if I see them in the nanosecond it takes them to load up if I can place my hands on their neck and start a slow massage it definately helps. I also move slowly myself and the feeling I try emulate is the same way you feel when you are just about to fall asleep. I practise this in times of no arousal and I use the word settle so they become conditioned to the word meaning calm down. Having said this I haven't done it off lead in the big wide world just in small areas (back yard) or on lead. I only let mine off lead in certain places and by themselves as I are also concerned with injury I've seen too many dogs hurt themselves and others through running around in that state.

[Aidan3]

Do you do that game, I forget the popular name but I think it's what Susan Garrett calls it, "Go Wild, Then Freeze" with her?

hmm no, is it a bit like the one Ian Dunbar talks about, he calls it 'Jazz up and settle down'?

Sounds like it. Anyway, it's a good way to settle a dog down quickly who is easily excited, you can use it for times when you need it. At other times, you can just enjoy the crazies!

[raineth]

Do you do that game, I forget the popular name but I think it's what Susan Garrett calls it, "Go Wild, Then Freeze" with her?

hmm no, is it a bit like the one Ian Dunbar talks about, he calls it 'Jazz up and settle down'?

Sounds like it. Anyway, it's a good way to settle a dog down quickly who is easily excited, you can use it for times when you need it. At other times, you can just enjoy the crazies!

That's good to know. I only just came upon the 'Jazz up and settle down' exercise so I haven't actually started it yet.

Her crazies can be quite fun as you say, just need to get them a little more under control in some situations :)

[raineth]

It seems to me my girl dog, Delta, has a bit of a problem with arousal.

There are lots of things that trigger her into an over-aroused state, such as being cold, being wet, windy weather, prey items... The list goes on really. She even gets into a state of high arousal when she sees Digby is wet.

Her arousal can make her super excited, or frustrated, or just 'wild'.

Arousal is not something I understand particularly well. I would be really interested to hear anyone's opinions on it, including things about managing it, why it happens, other resources, whether you've known a dog that seems to get overly aroused very easily... Anything really :)

Currently I have incorporated BAT, CC, Sophia Yin exercises and impulse control exercises into our training. These have resulted in improvements... But I feel as though they have only made improvements in specific situations and I guess I am hoping there might be some things I could do that would have more of a global effect?

Can't tell you much about arousal but I have the same problem with my Greys (but I don't think to the same extent) one in particular and with the young dogs at work. I use massage (Greys are very responsive to massage) when or if I see them in the nanosecond it takes them to load up if I can place my hands on their neck and start a slow massage it definately helps. I also move slowly myself and the feeling I try emulate is the same way you feel when you are just about to fall asleep. I practise this in times of no arousal and I use the word settle so they become conditioned to the word meaning calm down. Having said this I haven't done it off lead in the big wide world just in small areas (back yard) or on lead. I only let mine off lead in certain places and by themselves as I are also concerned with injury I've seen too many dogs hurt themselves and others through running around in that state.

Thanks m-j :) it's really interesting to hear your experiences with over-arousal. I will definitely give that relaxing massage a go.

I have actually noticed that stroking her neck can help her when her arousal starts to climb. Did you follow any specific massage protocol? I have the book Control Unleashed and I know it has a bit on massage in there that I could use to guide me.

[m-j]

It seems to me my girl dog, Delta, has a bit of a problem with arousal.

There are lots of things that trigger her into an over-aroused state, such as being cold, being wet, windy weather, prey items... The list goes on really. She even gets into a state of high arousal when she sees Digby is wet.

Her arousal can make her super excited, or frustrated, or just 'wild'.

Arousal is not something I understand particularly well. I would be really interested to hear anyone's opinions on it, including things about managing it, why it happens, other resources, whether you've known a dog that seems to get overly aroused very easily... Anything really :)

Currently I have incorporated BAT, CC, Sophia Yin exercises and impulse control exercises into our training. These have resulted in improvements... But I feel as though they have only made improvements in specific situations and I guess I am hoping there might be some things I could do that would have more of a global effect?

Can't tell you much about arousal but I have the same problem with my Greys (but I don't think to the same extent) one in particular and with the young dogs at work. I use massage (Greys are very responsive to massage) when or if I see them in the nanosecond it takes them to load up if I can place my hands on their neck and start a slow massage it definately helps. I also move slowly myself and the feeling I try emulate is the same way you feel when you are just about to fall asleep. I practise this in times of no arousal and I use the word settle so they become conditioned to the word meaning calm down. Having said this I haven't done it off lead in the big wide world just in small areas (back yard) or on lead. I only let mine off lead in certain places and by themselves as I are also concerned with injury I've seen too many dogs hurt themselves and others through running around in that state.

Thanks m-j :) it's really interesting to hear your experiences with over-arousal. I will definitely give that relaxing massage a go.

I have actually noticed that stroking her neck can help her when her arousal starts to climb. Did you follow any specific massage protocol? I have the book Control Unleashed and I know it has a bit on massage in there that I could use to guide me.

Not really as I use where ever the dog responds to. My ACD responds to massage on her chest as the neck area does very little for her whereas the Greys love neck massages. If I massage over their rump they are back up there instantly. The only protocols I adhere to are slow circular massage with my fingers. When I've finished and the dog is calm I don't just lift my hands off I lightly stroke the dog and lift them off at the end of the stroke if that makes sense along with the mindset and slow movements I mentioned.

[BC Crazy]

Massage has helped my girl Raineth. Did read somewhere that to have their jaw/face/head massaged helps relieve stress as that is where they hold a lot of tension. I have been trying this, at first Stella wasn't keen about it but have persevered a couple of times a day. Only for a minute or so, slow & gently. She seems to quite enjoy it now as she comes to me & lays down when she knows it is around the time I usually do it. Just before dinner & breakfast. I do think it may be helping her stressful outbursts a little. Hope this may help you :)

Am watching this thread with interest.

Edited May 5, 2014 by BC Crazy

[raineth]

Ah.... that does sound a bit dangerous , yes. have you tried ADAPTIL ? Thundershirt?

Sorry Persephone, i forgot to answer this.

Yes we have tried thunder shirts with some success, I also find a dog backpack works similarly for her, perhaps even better actually.

Haven't tried adaptil though...

BC Crazy, it's good to hear the massage is helping Stella :)

Yesterday I did a few repetitions of Jazz up and settle down. I thought it went quite well really, although I didn't time it. She does drop immediately upon me asking her, but it takes a little longer to get her fully lying on her side relaxing.

I am wondering how useful this is going to be for us in a 'real world' setting though. Her shape, size and thin coat means that I just can't ask her to lay down just anywhere. I can just imagine her trying to feel relaxed as she lays down on wet grass at 6 in the morning when we have our walks :laugh:

[Erny]

What do you do in terms of drive satiating motivational work?

[raineth]

Hmmm I don't know if I do anything that would be classed as that Erny

I do play with her, and I do train her but I don't think that's what you're referring to? I'd love to hear how I can start doing some though :)

[BC Crazy]

I haven't heard of that either but would also love to hear more Erny :)

[Erny]

Nothing new or exciting (maybe just my fancy words, lol), but in effect, recognising a dog's drive (eg. chase, catch, bite) and incorporating that into your training. Game of tug (with rules) is generally what I do to use the dog's drive and provide drive satisfaction. If the dog has drive which is not tapped and has no other means of satisfaction for it, it will look for things to do to try to provide that satiation itself. Using that drive and turning it to helping you with your training provides not only satiation of the drive, but also benefits the training side of things, as the dog learns that it's the training skills you've taught which provides an outlet to satisfying the innate instinct it carries for chasing, catching, biting etc.