Time Out?

[Shadrack]

ok, so my other thread in here isnt active anymore and im kind of after some quick answers, also its a completely different issue. kinda.

Ace is being /very/ destructive Today he completely chewed up my sheet.. while it was on my bed, its fitted so the edges where still snuggly tucked while the center was pretty much nonexistent. and on top of that he chewed a hole in the mattress as well. Mind you that mattress has already been flipped due to a hole in the other side. And his nasty habit of peeing on my bed, chewing through wood, including my desk (which we need to stop because we arent sure what type of pain was used and we dont want him getting sick.)

i am getting a professional trainer in next week (if they are available) but i will be making the call next week after my money goes in, but until then, i do need to start trying to eliminate the particular behaviors mentioned. ive tried ignoring it, but thats not helping, in fact he does it more. I've also tried withholding affection when hes doing behaviors that are unwanted, but again, hes doing it more. i did look at the training out unwanted behaviors but didnt see anything. and there are alot of pages.

So basically ive had some people tell me that when i catch him (almost always) to put him in 'time-out' another room with no bed and no toys or any form of amusement. for 5-15 minutes. has anyone tried with method? is it even effective or am i being told to do something completely pointless? One of my housemates want me to start smacking them, and i really dont want to resort to that, i was raised with people smacking their dogs, but i have been told that its not an ideal system, so i dont want to do it. But i do need something that will work.

pretty much, im getting desperate, mattresses arent cheap, i have a bad back so need a fairly good one and dont have the kinda money just laying around to keep replacing my stuff. and with him tearing stuff up, what if he eats some of it and gets sick.

[ness]

I would prevent/limit access if the dog is likely to undertake destructive behaviors. Tether in a room where you are or ideally crate. Redirect the dog if it starts to behave inappropriately.

[kelpiecuddles]

Personally I'd be keeping him with me, even if that means having him on lead in the house and him just trotting around after you.

[tikira]

You really sound as though you have difficult issues there.

We found Vicks Vaporub to be a good deterrant for our Jack Russells, just smear it on.

A dog will continue to pee in places he can smell urine, so that is probably a reason he is peeing in the bed. Sadly I think until you can talk to a behaviourist, you need to exclude him from where he pees, and go back to toilet training- big time. A crate or "playpen" will help you to monitor what he is doing.

Time out worked for us as well, we chose the hallway, and only for less than a minute. Just long enough for him to calm down, but like a child it takes time, determination, and consistency by everyone in your household. You will need to do this over and over, probably in short succession, until you out stubborn him. The good news is Jack Russells are very intelligent, and usually learn quickly.

Interupting bad behaviour with a "uggghhh" sound, or a low growl, helped us too (and still does, As soon as you see him do something, interupt with your "ugghh" sound, and then straight away redirect him to something he IS allowed to do, and then reward the good behaviour.

I am sure others will be able to add to this.

Good luck with your boy, Jacks are great little dogs, but can have their drawbacks. It is, like any dog, a matter of finding out what works for them. Our first Jack Russell was totally ruled by his tummy and toys.... We used that to train him.

Di

[Aidan3]

Time-outs work, and they don't need to be long. 1 minute. But the problem for you will be catching him in the act, then linking his behaviour with the consequence. He would probably enjoy all the attention in-between the behaviour and the time-out.

Better to limit access to your bedroom. Puppy-proof the rest of the house as best you can. Make sure you do some training at least once a day (even if it's just silly tricks). Exercise daily. Reward him when he's doing what you want him to do.

[Salukifan]

Shut the bedroom door. No access for dogs unless you are with them and frankly, I'd be sleeping them in crates.

How much exercise do these dogs get?

[Shadrack]

Thankyou everyone for your responses, its appreciated :)

i have to look into getting a crate. well two, a few people have mentioned crate training now for several different issues, so next week i'll head down to the pet store and price them.

as far as distracting him from the bad behavior with a toy, it did make him do more, but i didnt give him my scolding noise which what for for my is a firm 'aye' kind of noise, i dont know how to write it out realy xD

i think it could be also kind of a lack of exercise at the moment as im recovering from health issues, but i am hoping to very soon get back into their daily walks.

im trying to train them every day, but ike ive said earlier, Ace seems very dis-interested in his sessions lately. right now im going to try and focus on getting them set up for clicker training, they arent understanding it. ive been told 'click, give treat' until they associate the click with a treat, but they arent getting it lol

I do disinfect the mattress then flip it, but i think somehow the smell lingers, i think i need to look up stuff that removes the odor, both from the bed, and floorboards.

I'll try the suggestion of my scolding noise, then redirecting his attention onto something positive. i like that approach, i want to try and really limit the punishments they get where possible.

Having them out in the lounge isnt always possible, i live with someone elderly and he sometimes trips her up, and he likes to 'bully' the cat xDD hes just trying to play, but she really isnt interested, so he tries to push it as much as he can and i dont want her scratching his eyes.

[Salukifan]

Do they have access to a back yard? If they are not being exercised regularly, destructive behaviour may be their outlet.... it's FUN!!

[Shadrack]

Shut the bedroom door. No access for dogs unless you are with them and frankly, I'd be sleeping them in crates.

How much exercise do these dogs get?

Not as much as i'd like, i did post for suggestions on some indoor activity suggestions, Like ive said before, health issues have been an issue for me. They are generally ok overnight, Ace very rarely, in fact only once, peed on the bed overnght, it all happens when they've been put in the room to give the cat some down time. theres a toddler gate on my bedroom door leftover from when we had two dogs (my housemates dog before he passed) here very aggressive towards each other, well my housemates dog was aggressive towards Mishka. My dog. and they go in the room sometimes, thats where all the problems start, some people think they have seperation anxiety around me, My housemates have said when i go out, they cry until i come home again.

[Shadrack]

Do they have access to a back yard? If they are not being exercised regularly, destructive behaviour may be their outlet.... it's FUN!!

Yes :) we have a rather big backyard and i take them out for some fetch, a run, and just to have a little sniff as well as working on their recall and getting them to follow me then randomnly changing where i walk, they love it! Ace loves the kind of activity that really makes him think. He also really seems to enjoy, i set up jumps in the backyard with bricks and whatevers laying around, and he loves going through it, its really fun to watch :D

[Salukifan]

Do they have access to a back yard? If they are not being exercised regularly, destructive behaviour may be their outlet.... it's FUN!!

Yes :) we have a rather big backyard and i take them out for some fetch, a run, and just to have a little sniff as well as working on their recall and getting them to follow me then randomnly changing where i walk, they love it! Ace loves the kind of activity that really makes him think. He also really seems to enjoy, i set up jumps in the backyard with bricks and whatevers laying around, and he loves going through it, its really fun to watch :D

Can they be left in the backyard safely? I'd have them out there a LOT more.

[Aidan3]

The only real test of whether they "get" the clicker is to see if behaviours that you click happen more. I never charge the clicker, and it never matters.

[Shadrack]

I'll start taking them out out twice a day, because we stay out there with them for a few hours if the weather lets us, they cant be out there unsupervised, the fence was fine for my last Jackie, but he was old, And little young Mishka has decided that she would figure out how to get into next door's yard, and the yard behind us, both of which own rather large dogs, one of which gets up on the fence barking and growling whenever i have them out there playing. when we got them we very well thought the yard was fine, but apparently not, and the neighbours landlord doesnt want to pay to get it fixed.

I just finished a training session with each dog, Ace appears to know that when i click, a treat is coming. Mishka is still utterly clueless lol

And i tried a different treat to normal tonight and I had Aces almost full attention for a change.

And Mishka learnt shake by a happy accident accident XDD

[Scottsmum]

I had a quick peek at your other thread. Eek. Naughty terriers eh?

Couple of quick thoughts - obviously only suggestions. I'll be brief, will list some thoughts, please don't think I'm being rude :)

If he/they can't be trusted he needs to earn his freedom back scrap by scrap. A few great suggestions above - including the lead and the crate. Petbarn has a sale on this weekend. If that helps.

I'd be limiting their access to all areas the areas of the house they're causing trouble - we have baby gates galore in this house.

Don't worry too much about the cat - I'm a firm believer in the cat being the boss of terriers. She'll only smack him once or twice :) But I'd also be reprimanding them for annoying the cat - time out might be a suitable way to help with this.

I'm a fan of the guttural "ah ah!" (similar to the "urgh" above)

Do they fetch? Can you give him them more exercise by playing fetch? or tug?

Or swapping their diet to include large RMBs which take time and energy to consume

Other enrichment techniques - we were stuffing Scotties dry food into look roll tubes to help keep him occupied. Lots of great tips on the net.

oh and stop disinfecting with a smelly disinfectant - you're basically just making over what he has marked. Start using an enzymatic cleanser - available at pet shops or you can just use biozet laundry power mixed into a paste with cold water.

I'm not a training expert but I would suggest if the clicker isn't working - dump it - find something that will work for you all. Try and find something that works for you - for Scottie we needed fun. He'll sit and his recall (especially in the house when he's being naughty) is pretty good.

For my old girl - she needed clear boundaries -she knew where the firm NO was but she knew she could push every thing else.

Hopefully others can give you much more structured ideas - not too many worse things then a pair of naughty terriers ....

[Aidan3]

I just finished a training session with each dog, Ace appears to know that when i click, a treat is coming. Mishka is still utterly clueless lol

It's one of the simplest forms of learning necessary for survival so I'm pretty sure Mishka is getting it. A couple of things: 1. the only way to know if Mishka is getting it is if you see more of the behaviours you click (e.g she tries something again); 2. sometimes dogs don't appear interested in treats because they are highly distracted, or too anxious to eat.

[Shadrack]

I had a quick peek at your other thread. Eek. Naughty terriers eh?

Couple of quick thoughts - obviously only suggestions. I'll be brief, will list some thoughts, please don't think I'm being rude :)

If he/they can't be trusted he needs to earn his freedom back scrap by scrap. A few great suggestions above - including the lead and the crate. Petbarn has a sale on this weekend. If that helps.

I'd be limiting their access to all areas the areas of the house they're causing trouble - we have baby gates galore in this house.

Don't worry too much about the cat - I'm a firm believer in the cat being the boss of terriers. She'll only smack him once or twice :) But I'd also be reprimanding them for annoying the cat - time out might be a suitable way to help with this.

I'm a fan of the guttural "ah ah!" (similar to the "urgh" above)

Do they fetch? Can you give him them more exercise by playing fetch? or tug?

Or swapping their diet to include large RMBs which take time and energy to consume

Other enrichment techniques - we were stuffing Scotties dry food into look roll tubes to help keep him occupied. Lots of great tips on the net.

oh and stop disinfecting with a smelly disinfectant - you're basically just making over what he has marked. Start using an enzymatic cleanser - available at pet shops or you can just use biozet laundry power mixed into a paste with cold water.

I'm not a training expert but I would suggest if the clicker isn't working - dump it - find something that will work for you all. Try and find something that works for you - for Scottie we needed fun. He'll sit and his recall (especially in the house when he's being naughty) is pretty good.

For my old girl - she needed clear boundaries -she knew where the firm NO was but she knew she could push every thing else.

Hopefully others can give you much more structured ideas - not too many worse things then a pair of naughty terriers ....

very naughty, and then when you put them both together, they destroy thing oh that much faster. definitely getting a crate, the mattress is chewed right through to the springs.

Dont worry i certainly dont think your being rude, i'm happy to take any suggestion even if its that im doing something wrong, i wont learn from mistakes if no one tells me im making one right?

ohh, sales always happen then end right on the day before i get paid haha but yes, i'll definitely do that, and give them a little more time out in the lounge with everyone, starting on the lead. they have absoloutely no manner in the lounge xD and i think its about time they learnt some anyway.

Baby gates are heaven, their kept in the bedroom with me overnight and the gate really comes in handy, Mishka can jump it, but shes learnt to respect it, so someone had mentioned a play pen, that could work, if she learnt to respect the gate, im sure she'd learn the same goes for the pen.

I wish it where like that with the cat, that once or twice is claws out and can sometimes escalate, funny thing is Ace just thinks its a game. but ill start giving him time outs for that behavior. we made the newbie mistake when he was a puppy of thinking his game with the cat was cute, it wasnt until recently that she become fed up with it.

i agree, the 'scold noise' has helped out A lot, they both know what it is and stop.. although Ace will gnerally try to go back to it after.

Mishka fetches, and plays tug. Ace chases the ball and gets it, then runs away with the ball. hes become a little obsessive with the ball, once he sees it, he'll spend literally the rest of the day looking for it and wont concentrate on anything else.

This might sound silly but what are RMB's? ive never heard of that before xD

Ohhh, when i go to the pet shop ill pick some of that up, thankyou :)

Oh no, dont worry about it, your suggestions are all very good and ill put them into action :)

[Shadrack]

I just finished a training session with each dog, Ace appears to know that when i click, a treat is coming. Mishka is still utterly clueless lol

It's one of the simplest forms of learning necessary for survival so I'm pretty sure Mishka is getting it. A couple of things: 1. the only way to know if Mishka is getting it is if you see more of the behaviours you click (e.g she tries something again); 2. sometimes dogs don't appear interested in treats because they are highly distracted, or too anxious to eat.

Ahh, maybe she doesnt have that much interest in the treat then? maybe shes bored of it? she only gets treats from her dog food Science diet i think its called, and i cant really tempt her with the more enticing things like little pieces of meat or anything because shes very sensitive and theres a lot of foods that actually make her quite sick.

the video i watched said that if your dog gets it, they'll hear the click then look for the treat. But is, I was sitting thinking over what to do with her and i had my hand out and she put her paw there, so i thought shake would be neat to teach her and clicked as her paw went there and treated, and then she would put her paw there again and so forth.. before she did it on command, Im going to guess thats the sign she gets it? a little more subtle than Ace was.

[Scottsmum]

I had a quick peek at your other thread. Eek. Naughty terriers eh?

Couple of quick thoughts - obviously only suggestions. I'll be brief, will list some thoughts, please don't think I'm being rude :)

If he/they can't be trusted he needs to earn his freedom back scrap by scrap. A few great suggestions above - including the lead and the crate. Petbarn has a sale on this weekend. If that helps.

I'd be limiting their access to all areas the areas of the house they're causing trouble - we have baby gates galore in this house.

Don't worry too much about the cat - I'm a firm believer in the cat being the boss of terriers. She'll only smack him once or twice :) But I'd also be reprimanding them for annoying the cat - time out might be a suitable way to help with this.

I'm a fan of the guttural "ah ah!" (similar to the "urgh" above)

Do they fetch? Can you give him them more exercise by playing fetch? or tug?

Or swapping their diet to include large RMBs which take time and energy to consume

Other enrichment techniques - we were stuffing Scotties dry food into look roll tubes to help keep him occupied. Lots of great tips on the net.

oh and stop disinfecting with a smelly disinfectant - you're basically just making over what he has marked. Start using an enzymatic cleanser - available at pet shops or you can just use biozet laundry power mixed into a paste with cold water.

I'm not a training expert but I would suggest if the clicker isn't working - dump it - find something that will work for you all. Try and find something that works for you - for Scottie we needed fun. He'll sit and his recall (especially in the house when he's being naughty) is pretty good.

For my old girl - she needed clear boundaries -she knew where the firm NO was but she knew she could push every thing else.

Hopefully others can give you much more structured ideas - not too many worse things then a pair of naughty terriers ....

very naughty, and then when you put them both together, they destroy thing oh that much faster. definitely getting a crate, the mattress is chewed right through to the springs.

Dont worry i certainly dont think your being rude, i'm happy to take any suggestion even if its that im doing something wrong, i wont learn from mistakes if no one tells me im making one right?

ohh, sales always happen then end right on the day before i get paid haha but yes, i'll definitely do that, and give them a little more time out in the lounge with everyone, starting on the lead. they have absoloutely no manner in the lounge xD and i think its about time they learnt some anyway.

Baby gates are heaven, their kept in the bedroom with me overnight and the gate really comes in handy, Mishka can jump it, but shes learnt to respect it, so someone had mentioned a play pen, that could work, if she learnt to respect the gate, im sure she'd learn the same goes for the pen.

I wish it where like that with the cat, that once or twice is claws out and can sometimes escalate, funny thing is Ace just thinks its a game. but ill start giving him time outs for that behavior. we made the newbie mistake when he was a puppy of thinking his game with the cat was cute, it wasnt until recently that she become fed up with it.

i agree, the 'scold noise' has helped out A lot, they both know what it is and stop.. although Ace will gnerally try to go back to it after.

Mishka fetches, and plays tug. Ace chases the ball and gets it, then runs away with the ball. hes become a little obsessive with the ball, once he sees it, he'll spend literally the rest of the day looking for it and wont concentrate on anything else.

This might sound silly but what are RMB's? ive never heard of that before xD

Ohhh, when i go to the pet shop ill pick some of that up, thankyou :)

Oh no, dont worry about it, your suggestions are all very good and ill put them into action :)

Whoops. Sorry. Raw meaty bones - very meaty to keep them distracted for a looooong time.

Scottie was like that with the ball then we bought him home. We set very firm rules. He has an inside ball - which he's allowed to play with but we don't engage with him and it and tennis balls which he is only allowed to have outside. We don't let him have tennis balls inside because he skins them. The "inside ball" has so far proven indestructible (which is great). Work on your "no more" command ;)

I'm very firmly in the camp of being the boss. I'm bad cop and Mum and my word is final in this house. I wish you luck :)

[persephone]

remember - crates are for shortish times ..and you need to learn how to TRAIN the dogs to use them!! They are NOT to just lock dogs in . I would leave this sort of stuff until you have a professional working with you.

meanwhile .... buy some bitterbite & spray your bed etc ...

keep doors SHUT where dogs are unwelcome.

buy a good quality fine chainLEASH , and use this when you have a dog with you, practicing "on your mat" etc . A nice chain leash cannot be chewed thru!

perhaps consider getting secondhand fencing and building a secure "fence-within-a fence" ? or a dog pen ? have a look on gumtree - there are often things available - here is one sample

LINK

[Shadrack]

Scottsmum- ahh, Mishka cant have raw meat, she gets really sick from it, and Ace does get raw bones :)

i just dont know how to set different rules if its like i dont exist xDD

persephone- ill definitely look into it :) i dont want the crate to be a traumatizing experience, at all. thanks :) thatsa really good idea, i never thought of it, making like a run in the backyard.