aussielover Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 In more popular breeds it's not that hard to get a puppy on main register. Many performance breeders are quite keen to keep potential top performers on main register with the option of breeding (under their name) later. A dog has to be structurally sound to compete at a high level, yet they may not look like a show dog. Conformation is certainly open to interpretation , hence the split between working and show lines in some breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 1398992751[/url]' post='6474911']I think the point's already been made but in some breeds, "performance temperament" for dog sports is not going to be the traditional breed temperament, nor the one specified in the breed standard. And frankly, that may also be the case for structure. I'm not talking about tests of working ability like gundog work but even they have been stylised to some degree. I've heard it said that a dog that can win a US retrieving trial is not necessarily the dog you want to go and and shoot over every day. So I think it pays to remember that for all competitive pursuits, the traditional breed conformation and temperament may be altered to make for a more competitive dog. Singling the show ring out as the sole source of this is inaccurate. So for JRT's is a biddable, people focussed dog, higher on leg for speed what the breed was bred for? Is performance in agility the "test" of a "proper" JRT?? Is that what breeders should be selecting to take forward in the breed? Re quoting for emphasis as it is a very important point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think the point's already been made but in some breeds, "performance temperament" for dog sports is not going to be the traditional breed temperament, nor the one specified in the breed standard. And frankly, that may also be the case for structure. I'm not talking about tests of working ability like gundog work but even they have been stylised to some degree. I've heard it said that a dog that can win a US retrieving trial is not necessarily the dog you want to go and and shoot over every day. Interesting point. The Hungarian Vizslas I knew in the USA were, without exception, the types that were wonderful to shoot over every day. They were the result of careful breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think the point's already been made but in some breeds, "performance temperament" for dog sports is not going to be the traditional breed temperament, nor the one specified in the breed standard. And frankly, that may also be the case for structure. I'm not talking about tests of working ability like gundog work but even they have been stylised to some degree. I've heard it said that a dog that can win a US retrieving trial is not necessarily the dog you want to go and and shoot over every day. Interesting point. The Hungarian Vizslas I knew in the USA were, without exception, the types that were wonderful to shoot over every day. They were the result of careful breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 That's true but as TSD said, many breeds original jobs have changed greatly, and they have to change somewhat anyway to suit the working conditions. Show dogs can lack instinct for their original purpose eg a collie that ignores sheep, a labrador who has no interest in retrieving etc. Should these individuals be bred from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Who uses glitter on their dogs in the show ring? Why on earth would someone do that? The mind boggles. Plush Puppy Pixie Dust Ahh thanks for that. Yes have heard of that product. I had visions of 70's disco glitter in the hair LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hahaha If my whippets didn't want to chase rabbits I would be worried. Oh to have time to persue all of my dog sporting interests - maybe a lotto win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 How would a JRT selected for agility differ from one selected for the ring? Larger, perhaps? With Labradors, show conformation is generally too heavily built for competitive agility, but there are enough people breeding for field work or other dog work that you wouldn't have much trouble finding a breeder who would shift a good performer to Main. My impression is that the working terrier crowd is small in Oz. But because a good earth dog is small and fierce in a hole, the ideal working dog may not be well-selected for agility. Silence from the terrier crowd? It would be good if someone could offer leads for specific breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I have a litter of shelties at the moment and have had many enquiries from people wanting to do agility, some serious, some just social but more than a few want to breed. It may be extremely closed minded of me but if the puppies I were selling were show quality and hence of sufficient quality to be bred they would be going to show homes. I am not interested in allowing dogs of my kennel name to be bred to pet quality dogs to produce pet quality puppies even if they do have performance potential. I believe in only breeding the best to the best and by that I mean the best temperaments, the best health results and the best dogs and if they are serious they will wait for a suitable dog to buy rather than just putting two dogs that are performing well together regardless of everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Silence from the terrier crowd? It would be good if someone could offer leads for specific breeders. If I wanted a Jack for agility, I'd go straight to Wildenfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I would ask cosmolo where she got Gilbert - best JRT ever. He's got a great temp too. Remember that even if you take your sport seriously , the dog will be your pet 95% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I would ask cosmolo where she got Gilbert - best JRT ever. He's got a great temp too. Remember that even if you take your sport seriously , the dog will be your pet 95% of the time. I think Gilbert's breeder has passed away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I was going to say Wikdenfox too, based in Bathurst area. Bred a number of agility champions as well as very good earthdogging dogs and a number involved in jack russell racing too. Not sure if they are shown or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amax-1 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) ETA: Quite interesting in GSDs as well. The people working security with GSDs that I know do not like a lot of prey drive in their dogs, they prefer more defence, and like calmer more relaxed dogs. The people using and breeding GSDs for sports do like a lot of prey drive in their dogs, makes it easier to build a reward system using toys and tug, and they give a flashier performance. The reason many security people like defence driven dogs is so they don't have to train a dog of stable character to protect. They only need a sharp dog bordering on fear aggressive to light up easily and put on a show is enough deterrent for the average offender to be intimidated by the dog and solve the problem. To achieve a protection dog who won't light up or bite passive people unless commanded to do so takes prey drive to train such a discipline which can't be achieved with a defence driven dog lacking in prey. Edited May 2, 2014 by Amax-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I love Plush Puppy Pixie Dust :-) on my Aust Ch ACD with his HSAc performance title. I like Kaviks post, as long as breeders are honest with themselves and puppy buyers. I greatly admire Rozate Aussie Sheps, breeding dogs which can still place at a Specialty yet work stock like an Aussie should, and have the on/ off switch and biddability to make good performance dogs. Importing and infusing working lines into correct Aussie types :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 She certainly has not passed away! Blazeaway is Gilbert's breeder. And yes he is the best jack russell terrier in the world.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I will be going back to her when we want our next JRT too. Hope she keeps breeding for a long time. I'd go back to the breeder of our young ACD too- our two experiences with registered breeders giving us dogs with precisely the temperament we were after have been awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 She certainly has not passed away! Blazeaway is Gilbert's breeder. And yes he is the best jack russell terrier in the world.. A little bias there? Super lines of course..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Find half an hour, grab a cuppa, and listen to this very sensible lady, now passed away, who bred labradors for both show and field and also judged field trials. This was recorded in the 80's, it's interesting how much of it is still directly relevant today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akayla Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Ooo Thanks For the links. Loved listening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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