BC Crazy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Hi everyone, I have just restarted with Stella's training at home each day after she hasn't been well for a while. She seems to have settled on her new Epilepsy med's now,which is great. She is a very motivated girl who loves to learn & extremely bright BUT she is also very food oriented & extremely fast with everything she does. I have always had a bit of a battle training her to be truthful because she focuses almost totally on the bait & not me. This has gotten even worse now because the med's have increased her appetite. So I'm in need of some ideas to slow this whole process down but am unsure exactly how to go about this without losing her concerntration altogether. I try to give the command, then wait a second or 2, then 'Yes' & treat but she will break position to seek the treat. I put her back in position, then treat but I just feel like everything is going to fast & she isn't calm enough to be in a learning mindset. How do I get her focused more on me? I'm only doing very basic obedience exercises to restart her with & I only ever do 5 mins sessions a day. She gives me eye contact a lot but that all changes when the bait bag comes out. What am I missing/doing wrong??? I seem to have come to a screaming halt training wise with her & we aren't making any progress. I seem to have lost my confidence as well. Any advice would be greatly appreciated :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Have you done any impulse control around food yet? Its Yer Choice is a good impulse control game to start with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Also look up kikopup on YouTube for lots of trick training to keep you both entertained - she includes teaching how to put toys away etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Also look up kikopup on YouTube for lots of trick training to keep you both entertained - she includes teaching how to put toys away etc. Yes, kikopup has lots of great trick training videos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My Labrador was expelled from group obedience training when she learned with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... and people will share it! I ended up going with praise and/or toys for her basic obedience training (had to be done by myself) instead. Took her back to the group training 2 years later... and she STILL knows with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... but I could redirect her much better with the praise and toys by then. I roused on anyone trying to sneak her food from their bumbags, but apparently the ONLY way to train a dog is with food rewards... *sigh* We don't go to obedience any more... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My Labrador was expelled from group obedience training when she learned with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... and people will share it! I ended up going with praise and/or toys for her basic obedience training (had to be done by myself) instead. Took her back to the group training 2 years later... and she STILL knows with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... but I could redirect her much better with the praise and toys by then. I roused on anyone trying to sneak her food from their bumbags, but apparently the ONLY way to train a dog is with food rewards... *sigh* We don't go to obedience any more... T. HAHA. Shouldn't laugh but sounds like she won obedience there! All the perks with minimal work. Love her style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My Labrador was expelled from group obedience training when she learned with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... and people will share it! I ended up going with praise and/or toys for her basic obedience training (had to be done by myself) instead. Took her back to the group training 2 years later... and she STILL knows with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... but I could redirect her much better with the praise and toys by then. I roused on anyone trying to sneak her food from their bumbags, but apparently the ONLY way to train a dog is with food rewards... *sigh* We don't go to obedience any more... T. HAHA. Shouldn't laugh but sounds like she won obedience there! All the perks with minimal work. Love her style. We call her the Labrahoover... she's a shocker for any type of food... *sigh* Thankfully, she loves getting praise almost as much, so as long as there isn't anyone handing out food willy-nilly, she's plenty focused on me when I want her to be. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Look up premacking. Learn to harness that desire to work in your favour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My Labrador was expelled from group obedience training when she learned with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... and people will share it! I ended up going with praise and/or toys for her basic obedience training (had to be done by myself) instead. Took her back to the group training 2 years later... and she STILL knows with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... but I could redirect her much better with the praise and toys by then. I roused on anyone trying to sneak her food from their bumbags, but apparently the ONLY way to train a dog is with food rewards... *sigh* We don't go to obedience any more... T. I can't believe that people are giving treats out to other people's dogs in your class! That is such a no no! I never give treats to other people's dogs (unless asked) and never allow people to give my dogs treats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I try to give the command, then wait a second or 2, then 'Yes' & treat but she will break position to seek the treat. You're waiting way too long. Why are you sticking to a standard 2 seconds before marking the behavior? You give her a chance to fail then you get frustrated, she gets more erratic because she wants that damn treat and you're not telling her what to do to get it then ... As described in said .jpeg ... Her brain is fast so YOU be fast. Give her a command ... SIT - focus - YES!!!! food, turn 90 degrees, COME! SIT! focus - YES!, take 2 steps back repeat, turn 180 repeat etc. You don't have to do horrible complicated things, you need your basics in order. If the dog stuffs up a quick UH UH in a happy voice (I have one client that uses, try again - OK fine, works for her because NO became shut down territory from previous training) NOT as a punishment but as a 'oops, try again!' for the dog. It means the dog will NOT want to move away from focussing on you because your value stays high, you're not the nagging monster you're now the awesome leader helping out. The second she looks at you mark it. It sounds dumb but hold your treat hand near your face or at your chest so the food comes from YOU and is not the total reward. YOU are the reward, not the food, you give the dog food to help it understand what you want. Everything your dog is doing is a learned response in previous training. I see it in majority dogs that I train because there's no focus inbuilt. DONT use the word 'watch' either, that word sends me spare. The dog should always be watching no matter what command you have given and especially on it's own name otherwise the behavior becomes provisional - you separate it from your general obedience so hence it can fail on you. If you reward focus with everything you train you can't go wrong. Don't be disheartened. Give it time, you're working against a bad habit but big deal. Hey in 2 weeks a wound up shepherd actually enjoys holding a dumbbell and can focus under distraction (and also not just at the hand) so you can do it too. Does Aunty Nekhbet need to make you an instructional video :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Aunty Nekhbet :laugh: you can make me a video if you like :laugh: I thought by slowing Stella down, just like every video I've ever watched of dog's doing obedience sitting there like miss 'perfect', waiting for direction, that Stella may learn to do the same....Well, maybe not... :p So I'd better get some skates on then you advise & make me much more interesting & FAST. I will change direction etc like you suggest. It is funny cause she does look at me a lot of her own accord. So much so it is almost unnerving at times. I often ask her what she needs or wants she does it so much. Until I produce FOOD & ask her to do something. Then it's , show me the FOOD !!!! I have always used UH,UH if she stuff's up. I never get cranky at her or let on I'm disheartened. I'm really soft with both my guys. Always have been with any dog I've owned. She wouldn't know what a raised voice was. Kavik, I tried the "It's Yer Choice" with her tonight. She caught on immediately. I had the treat clinched in my hand, she nudged it once, then laid straight down & turned her head away casually :) Thanks guys, keep those ideas coming. Very interested. Sometimes you can't seem to see a solution clearly when you are trying so darn hard to get things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 OSS, I will read up premacking tomorrow. Sounds interesting, never heard of it, thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My Labrador was expelled from group obedience training when she learned with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... and people will share it! I ended up going with praise and/or toys for her basic obedience training (had to be done by myself) instead. Took her back to the group training 2 years later... and she STILL knows with 100% accuracy that bumbags have food in them... but I could redirect her much better with the praise and toys by then. I roused on anyone trying to sneak her food from their bumbags, but apparently the ONLY way to train a dog is with food rewards... *sigh* We don't go to obedience any more... T. We've got a dog at our club that will steal them straight out of your pocket/treat bag. You think she's just nudging you, but then you discover her nose is actually IN your pocket...and she's damn quick too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Having a dog with a lot of drive for food is a quality problem to have! When training obedience I want speed, high levels of drive and arousal and tonnes of focus - so slowing things down or rewarding for calm behavioir won't get the results I want. The length of time she can hold a position is something you can increase over time once you have a good communication system. My dog is very speedy and can offer behaviours very fast so it's a matter of developing your timing skills too. When you say she looks to your hand a lot, how big a cue is the sight of food and the treat pouch? I intentionally put the treat pouch at my back, I also make sure I don't let the sight of food become a signal or trigger to the dog. Because I use a verbal marker my dogs have no reason to look to my hands, until I have said yes and then I can produce the treat from either hand. If you struggle with this try not having a treat in your hand at all, when you say 'yes' make a bit of a game of pulling out a treat from your treat pouch, so it's not just about handing a treat over. Run back wards while reaching for the treat etc - keep it unpredictable and it will help maintain drive and engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) T, I have a Borderhoover then LOL. Huski,I usually have a bait bag turned around on my back but I have a bait in my hand. I may need to make changes in my delievery as you say. In hindsight I do have a bait in my hand before asking for a behaviour. Too predictable aren't I ?. Im wafting it under Stella's poor nose. Edited May 1, 2014 by BC Crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Are you using a marker word or a clicker? If not I think it would really help you because you can use that to tell her very clearly precisely what it is you want her to do without even having the treat reward in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I use Yes as my marker SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I use Yes as my marker SG. Great :) does she have a strong enough association between the word and the treat that she'll look at you immediately when she's looking elsewhere once she hears it? If so you should be able to start phasing out the lure treat that she can see or knows is in your hand and rewarding with the other hand from the bait bag behind your back so she stops focussing on the treat and (as said above) starts focusing on you to see what will make you give the marker sound instead. Edited May 1, 2014 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Oh that is another prob I have SG. Im was unsure how to actually fade out the bait. Sometimes Stella looks at me when I say my marker word but most times not though. Not with a bait around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Borderhoover - I will send you Ness BC Crazy. At nearly 14 she is still a well tuned Borderhoover :laugh:. Sorry nothing constructive to add but its an awesome problem to have. Certainly made training so much a piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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