Confused

[Bec11]

We're going to meet a breeder and look at some puppies on the weekend. We're looking for a family pet and we're looking for a puppy that will be able to fit in with the kids and our cat. The tips I've read when choosing temperament seem to be so variable. We'll certainly be asking the breeder their thoughts, but are there traits that we should/shouldn't be looking for?

I had a family member that chose a puppy because he was alert and happy and was the first to come and check her and her kids out when they visited. But ultimately she looks back and thinks that choosing this puppy was probably a mistake because he was the leader of the pack and very wilful. He was loved and well cared for, but what they thought he was - friendly and good with people - was more their misreading the signs and not understanding dog temperaments because what he was was strong-willed, autonomous and used to being the leader.

[kelpiecuddles]

The breeder should be able to help you choose a pup that will suit your needs. When I chose my kelpie(who was just a farm bred dog) I chose the one that was quieter but still interested in me, she came up and sat next to me and chilled while her brothers ran around like nutters LOL. When I went to choose my basset the breeder had picked out two that he thought might suit but recommended the one we got. He was right on the money with his recommendation. She's calm but confident which is exactly what you want in a family dog.

What breed are you going to look at?

[julesluvscavs]

How exciting Bec ! ;)

Quite a few breeders will choose the most suitable puppy for you and your family.

We never requested which sex we would prefer altho deep down I really hoping for a female. The breeder asked us if we wanted the female once she had made her final decisions about them. The only request we had was that it had to be a Tri colour puppy (which is why we choose the breeder we did anyway)

When we met our little girl, she was the only one that didn't want to come up and cuddle and spend time with us, she was off doing her own thing away from the security of the others I was bit embarrassed and worried the breeder might decide she didn't take to us and choose another one for us, All the others were very cuddly with us Thank God that didn't happen and we still got Miah.

Miah is growing into most beautiful very independent, outgoing, confident and full of life (and love) young Cavalier. She has an exceptional temperament. We get told that a lot.

She did let us have a cuddle tho before we left at our first meet with her ;)

Edited May 1, 2014 by Jules❤3Cavs

[huski]

When selecting a puppy to live with kids having a confident puppy with good solid nerves is critical. A nervous, timid or shy puppy won't cope as easily around a noisey/busy household.

I have helped temp test litters where every pup runs over to you as soon as they see you, a puppy running over to you or appearing confident isn't a sign it is dominant or the most dominant puppy in the litter. I would never select a puppy that shied away, didn't approach me, or didn't attempt to interact with me.

There are a lot of reasons that your friends may have had trouble with their dog not behaving appropriately. If you select a puppy that is shy, scared or hesitant around people you will likely have problems too, just different ones.

It is important to pick a puppy that ticks all of your boxes and that has a suitable temperament, nerves etc for living with your family but it is also important to raise them properly to live harmoniously in your household.

I always recommend speaking to a reputable training/behaviourist before bringing a puppy home, they can help explain to you how to pick a suitable puppy from the litter, what behaviours and traits to look at etc. They can also help make sure you are prepared for bringing a puppy home and can give you guidance on what to do when you do get your puppy. Breeders can also be helpful when choosing a puppy and I would always ask for their guidance too, but then there are breeders who aren't as good at doing this so it is good to cover all your bases.

Edited May 1, 2014 by huski

[Bec11]

That's very reassuring! The breed we're looking at is Miniature Schnauzer. I'm trying very hard to not get too excited because I worry that it won't work out for some reason.

I love kelpies (my relatives are farmers and have always had kelpies) but we really, really don't have the lifestyle for a kelpie. Miah looks beautiful - I just want to scratch her under her chin.

[tikira]

If your breeder is experienced, then really listen to their recommendations.

We chose our first Jack Russell for his outgoingness. Wayne wanted an agility dog, and while his brother was contaent to snuggle and cuddle with me, We chose the "crazy dog" who was interested in everything. He was very dominant, and wilful (and we loved him so much), but everyone thought he was really hard work, and high energy, and way too intelligent.

Our second Jack Russell we chose the one that was confident, but content to sit and stare at me the whole time. His laid back temprament is what we were looking for, and that has not changed. He is such a good boy,and definitely easier than Tip was.

So trust your instincts about the way the puppies are interacting, watch their play, take your time, and listen to your breeders thoughts.

Do a little research on "puppy aptitude test" on your search engine. It is interesting and may help understand tempraments of individual puppies, and what you should look at or avoid in the various behaviours you will witness in the litter.

Good luck with your puppy, and we need pictures when you get him/her

Di

[Steph M]

We let our breeder pick for us too, sit down with them and tell them everything, your life, both good and bad bits, your house, routine, what you want to do (ie do you want to do further obedience, agility etc) and what you want in a dog and they should be able to match you very well.

For what its worth our dog has been the perfect pick for us. Some.of his littermates are quieter, busier, more driven etc, which might not have been spot on for us, but Gus is perfect.

[Steph M]

We let our breeder pick for us too, sit down with them and tell them everything, your life, both good and bad bits, your house, routine, what you want to do (ie do you want to do further obedience, agility etc) and what you want in a dog and they should be able to match you very well.

For what its worth our dog has been the perfect pick for us. Some.of his littermates are quieter, busier, more driven etc, which might not have been spot on for us, but Gus is perfect.

[perrin]

Our breeder chose for us.

We gave a list of what we were looking for and were open to either sex.

We didn't meet Georgia until we picked her up but she was perfect then and still is now. She slotted into our family like she has always been here.

[CaseyKay]

The breeders chose the 2 dogs we have now based on what activities we wanted to do and what sort of temperament was important (cuddly and interested in people always tops my list). I figure my job is to pick the right breeder and it is their job to pick the right pup! We met both Gael and Scout for the first time at the airport. They have both worked out so well

Our previous two I wished we had had a great breeder to match us with a pup. Both the last two were the last pups left (BC farm litters) after everyone else had chosen. Could have said no but that is hard when you are faced with a cute puppy, both had temperament flaws that I mentioned to both Gael and Scout's breeders as things I absolutely wanted to avoid. Neither pup was very keen on interacting with us, KC because she was extremely timid, and Maddie because people were never that interesting to her and she was always a very aloof dog and not at all cuddly

[Mystiqview]

If you have not done so already - find out the good the bad and the damn ugly traits of your chosen breed. This will give you insight in what to possibly expect as a general breed trait. Not all individuals will display all the "typical" breed traits often associated with them - but it is useful to know them just the same, so you can identify the trait if it DOES appear.

If your breeder is knowledgeable and knows their lines and the breed, they should be able to give you this information and explain the temperament traits of each puppy you are looking at.

Make sure you tell the breeder what your home situation is like - you don't need to give a complete history, but things like, how old the kids are and their experience towards dogs (are they generally afraid of dogs, are they themselves boisterous or quite children. Has the cat lived with a dog before?, will the dog be outside/inside or both, is anyone home during the day, what you want to do with the dog - just a family pet or you are considering a sporting activity such as obedience, dancing with dogs, agility etc. All these things will help the breeder point you towards a dog whose temperament will suit your lifestyle. If they do not have anything in their current litter available, do they know of another good breeder who might or when is their next litter?

As for male vs female - with correct toilet training, male dogs (even entire) can be quite clean and not pee on everything. I have a stud dog here who has good toilet manners. When he is walked he knows he is not to pee on every post and tree we walk past. He does not mark every bush/vertical surface at home - even when I have girls in season. In some breeds - males can be better family pets than females. Many people think males are dirty because they pee on everything - that is because they have not been taught any better.

I would be wary of any breeder who just picks out a pup and says "this is your pup" without offering you the opportunity to look at the litter in the entirety. The other pups may already be sold which you may not be able to do anything about, however it is vital you observe how each pup interacts with each other, other dogs/animals and humans. I have heard of breeders who will only show the available puppy/puppies individually.

If you have not already paid a deposit, I would hold off paying a deposit while you are at the breeder's place. Leave your wallet and money at home. Look at the litter objectively. Go away for a few hours and think about it. You can always do a direct deposit into their bank account when you get home. I say this to remove any temptation to go "Yes I will have this one" when that pup may not be best suited to your household. A good breeder will understand this - while they want to find homes for the pups, they also want to make sure the people are providing the best home for the pup and it would fully suit their circumstances. Way too many people buy on impulse and regret the decision later. Temperament is paramount.

I personally will not take a deposit when puppy buyers are looking at pups. I want them to go home and think about it before making the decision - after all it is a 15 year decision and commitment they are making and you want it to be a good fit.

Typically and generally speaking, within each litter there will always be the extravert and introvert puppies. Those that come bounding up to you first can be the social butterfiles and while not always dominant (that is such a misused and misunderstood term) - they can always be looking for their next adventure. They can be into everything and can be hard to train as their attention is always moving to the next "shiny thing".

The mid ranking puppies, those that hang back that just a fraction before coming up, have looked at the situation, sussed you out and then decided you are good to go an investigate. These are best puppies for most families. They have that stop and think rather than diving into everything. They are good all-rounders.

The last are the introverts - the ones that may appear timid or shy or are just quiet. I would normally reserve these for more experienced handlers like the extraverts as if they are socialised wrong or experience a bad experience the wrong way, it can leave a lasting and sometimes negative impression. However they can also be excellent family pets (again this can depend on breed traits). I used to have a husky in this group years ago. Huskies by general nature are aloof, independent and can be quite strong willed, so an introvert pup is not necessarily one that is very timid and rolls over and pees itself as soon as a person comes up. I socialised that dog carefully, made sure she was introduced to stimilli both good and bad carefully and she proved a good (back then) obedience dog and we used to be part of obedience demos at the Ekka and other large groups. Sadly she died at 4 years from a rare auto immune disorder. Border collies which I have now are typically a much softer breed in temperament - so more care I believe is needed when choosing an introverted soft nature dog/breed.

[cavNrott]

I have never chosen my own pup, I leave that decision to the breeder. From the time of our first contact until the pup is ready to leave the litter the breeder and I get to know eachother quite well so she/he is the best person to make the choice as she/he knows their pups and their temperaments.

When I go to meet the litter I'm usually told which pup is mine. I'd be concerned if a breeder asked me to choose the pup I wanted from the litter. I don't know which pup would suit my lifestyle.

[Bjelkier]

I choose the puppies for my pet buyers. I get to know my puppy people very well before they buy their puppy so I usually have a good idea which pup would suit them.

I've picked some of my own puppies and I've had others chosen for me. I'm happy enough for the breeder to do the picking. I can always decline if I have an objection to the puppy for whatever reason and find someone else.

[Steph M]

I would be wary of any breeder who just picks out a pup and says "this is your pup" without offering you the opportunity to look at the litter in the entirety. The other pups may already be sold which you may not be able to do anything about, however it is vital you observe how each pup interacts with each other, other dogs/animals and humans. I have heard of breeders who will only show the available puppy/puppies individually.

I disagree. As long as the breeder has taken the time to get to know you and you're confident they're what you're after I wouldn't have a problem buying a pup without meeting and picking them myself, we did in fact!

As a breeder you're the one who knows the pups and has insights such as the following and knows which pup falls under which categories. Perhaps on the day someone comes to meet pup & pick one a typically outgoing pup could be having a bad day and look quiet, only someone who's spent almost 8 weeks with them would know that.

Typically and generally speaking, within each litter there will always be the extravert and introvert puppies. Those that come bounding up to you first can be the social butterfiles and while not always dominant (that is such a misused and misunderstood term) - they can always be looking for their next adventure. They can be into everything and can be hard to train as their attention is always moving to the next "shiny thing".

The mid ranking puppies, those that hang back that just a fraction before coming up, have looked at the situation, sussed you out and then decided you are good to go an investigate. These are best puppies for most families. They have that stop and think rather than diving into everything. They are good all-rounders.

The last are the introverts - the ones that may appear timid or shy or are just quiet. I would normally reserve these for more experienced handlers like the extraverts as if they are socialised wrong or experience a bad experience the wrong way, it can leave a lasting and sometimes negative impression. However they can also be excellent family pets (again this can depend on breed traits). I used to have a husky in this group years ago.

[Mystiqview]

I have never chosen my own pup, I leave that decision to the breeder. From the time of our first contact until the pup is ready to leave the litter the breeder and I get to know eachother quite well so she/he is the best person to make the choice as she/he knows their pups and their temperaments.

When I go to meet the litter I'm usually told which pup is mine. I'd be concerned if a breeder asked me to choose the pup I wanted from the litter. I don't know which pup would suit my lifestyle.

It's a two way street - information needs to be shared. Both the puppy buyer and the breeder need to talk and decide whether the pup offered is really suitable. As a breeder I am observing the pups all the time. I keep note on their temperaments, attributes and how they interact with everyone and thing. I get as much information as I can from puppy buyers as to what they are looking for.

In my breed: border collies are subject to quite a difference in markings and colour, I have had puppy buyers say they like this or that puppy. When I am first contacted on a puppy, they will often say they like puppy #4 based on markings or appearance from a photo. This may not be a good choice - however at this stage if they are only looking at photos it is all they can really go upon. I will eventually match the temperament of the puppy to the family. I would never dream of saying this is your puppy - like it or lump it type of thing.

I advise which ones I think are best suited based on temperament etc - however the decision is really up to the puppy buyer and I have found through experience they need to feel as though they have made the decision to take that pup (even though I as the breeder may have done it). I have never had problems selling puppies and if the puppy buyer goes away knowing my litter is not suited to them, then I am happy. I would sooner hold onto a pup than sell one to the first person who offered me money.

I also invite and encourage local puppy buyers to come and visit the litter from after they are two weeks of age. Firstly for socialization of the whole litter to other people outside my family and secondly so they can see the development of their puppy. Some will not agree with this principle based on increased puppy thefts and possible kennel cough, flue etc. Infection is easily enough scooted around if precautions are taken. (I have worked in pounds when there has been an outbreak of canine flu or kennel cough and also the complete quarantine and scrub down procedures for Equine Flu).

I have had pups picked for me by breeders I know and trust - I have given them the traits I prefer and like and have been offered a choice of pups. Although I do have more experience in choosing temperament and also conformation as I am picking a dog for a different criteria than an average pet person. Some have had great conformation, but crappy temperaments. Others good temperaments but not as good conformation. (I am picking for show and breeding animals).

A breeder can make suggestions as to which puppy within a litter is best suited to them - they should also be able to back it up with the reasons why. However I don't believe it is right or fair for a breeder to bring out a puppy and say "this is your puppy" without discussing or informing the puppy buyer why they think this.

The puppy buyer should also have sat down (and maybe with their family) and thought about what they actually want and are looking for in a dog, what traits are important to them, what they are wanting to do with the dog (eg sport etc) before looking at pups. It is too easy to be tempted by the cute ball of fluff sitting on your lap into choosing something on impulse.

[Mystiqview]

Steph M:

I disagree. As long as the breeder has taken the time to get to know you and you're confident they're what you're after I wouldn't have a problem buying a pup without meeting and picking them myself, we did in fact!

Big difference in looking at a litter personally than buying a pup only based on what the breeder tells you. If you have the chance to look at the litter - it is good to see the whole interaction. If buying sight unseen, then definitely you need to be able to trust your breeder's judgement and have confidence in them. I have bought dogs sight unseen and in my case have know the breeders.

As a breeder - I have been contacted by interstate people looking for a pup based on a photo. I have not had a long time to get to know them nor them me to discuss which pup would be suitable. They have a big step in trusting my judgement and advice and also that I am who I am and will actually send them a pup (based on increasing dog scams around).

As a breeder you're the one who knows the pups and has insights such as the following and knows which pup falls under which categories. Perhaps on the day someone comes to meet pup & pick one a typically outgoing pup could be having a bad day and look quiet, only someone who's spent almost 8 weeks with them would know that.

Old wives tail: "pick the first dog that comes to you - it chose you". I still here this said around many a pet person when they are looking at litters - both pedigree and unpedigree. Espeically when they are going to look at entire litters. How many times do you still hear this said without thought to what they are actually saying. It is true a breeder will know the outgoing pups from the introverted - however what harm is there to put this information out there??? If anything to dispel the myth "pick the first one that comes to you"

There are many first time dog people reading these threads who don't post who would think to just go out there and pick the first pup that came to them without thinking about what they are potentially getting and who may not have a good breeder behind them. It is just as important they know the basics for the information toolbox.

[sandgrubber]

I think some of this depends on the breed. In breeds like Labs and flatties, (exception: extreme sport lines, bred for high drive competition) where most individuals are outgoing, biddable, and playful with good nerves and most puppy buyers have chosen the breed for its temperament as much as looks, I suspect most of the litter will be suitable for most of the puppy buyers. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, or that a given litter won't have it's more and less outgoing pups. It's my impression that herding dogs and terriers tend to have more variation in nerves and drive, making some pups difficult choices for some families.

[Salukifan]

Let the breeder choose for you.

I'd take the choice of someone who has spent weeks with the pups over my own gut instinct and a short visit.

You don't know which pups have just played themselves into tiredness and how the pups are at a range of times and circumstances. Provided the pup's not fleeing from you, Id take whatever the breeder recommends.

[Steph M]

Let the breeder choose for you.

I'd take the choice of someone who has spent weeks with the pups over my own gut instinct and a short visit.

You don't know which pups have just played themselves into tiredness and how the pups are at a range of times and circumstances. Provided the pup's not fleeing from you, Id take whatever the breeder recommends.

That's the concise version of what I was getting at. Always so eloquent HW!

[Bec11]

Thanks for everyone's input :)

The puppy aptitude test was very interesting. I can't imagine doing the whole thing while we're there but it gives us a good starting point to discuss with the breeder and an idea of where we would like our new dogs temperament to sit amongst the wide range. It's also reassuring to hear that most breeders will be approaching this the same way we are and trying to match the right dog for our family (and if they don't then I'll consider it a red flag and look elsewhere).