Nature Versus Nurture

[tobie]

I'm currently doing a degree in psychology and have been learning alot about the nature versus nurture debate. Which is about whether or not we inherit (nature) our personailities, behaviours etc or are these learnt through how we are raised (nurture). Being a bit dog obsessed it got me thinking about how this debate also affects dogs as everytime there is a dog attack everyone tends to debate this. Whether or not the reason for the attack was the upbringing of the dog (nurture) or if it was inherited (nature).

I think this affects the pit bull more than any other breed as the media has made it pretty clear that they believe attacks are caused by nature rather than nurture. Hence the dangerous dog laws.

I personally believe that both nature and nurture play a part in who we become except I thought that nurture played a larger part in who we became but after reading a study on twins seperated at birth it showed in this case the personalities were definately due to nature (inherited) which really suprised me. I still believe both nature and nurture play a part in who we all are whether it be human or dog.

I was wondering what other peoples opinions are when it comes to dogs and their personalities, behaviours etc and does anyone know if there has been any studies done on dogs in relation to this as I would be very interested in reading them just simply out of interest.

One thought I had was do you believe your own dogs good or bad traits are inherited or because of the way you raised your dog?

[tdierikx]

Nature provides the canvas, and nurture provides the paint... that's how I see it anyways. You can go all Pro Hart and get a big ass mess - or you can go Leonardo Da Vinci and get something unique and beautiful.

T.

[huski]

I think a large percentage is nurture but nature is the foundation you build on. I think of it like this:

You can have a top of the line sports car but if you can't drive it, you can crash it easily.

You can drive an old bomb well and never have an accident but it won't ever go as fast as a Ferrari.

[capanash]

We kept male and female littermates 10 yrs ago, totally different temperaments. They have both lived in the same house with us (and their mother) all of that time. The dog is so outgoing, works with me in the Responsible Pet Education program visiting schools and is a certified Pets as Therapy dog. The bitch likes our family and some friends, but she is very unhappy with strangers, to the point of urinating and cringing. How do you explain this, nature or nurture? Both were shown in the conformation ring and titled easily, neither have been bred from. Both parents have exceptionally good temperaments.

(posted by Marlene)

[julesluvscavs]

Nature provides the canvas, and nurture provides the paint... that's how I see it anyways. You can go all Pro Hart and get a big ass mess - or you can go Leonardo Da Vinci and get something unique and beautiful.

T.

Miah's breeder more or less said the same thing to us when she handed Miah over to us... I hope we are painting a really beautiful and unique canvas with her. We have been complimented a fair bit on her temperament so far

I have owned dogs all my life but Miah is the first one I've had from as a young Puppy; )

Edited April 28, 2014 by Jules❤3Cavs

[pie]

I think nature plays a bigger part than people realise - and I think it is narrow minded to say things like "it's all how you raise them" because it isn't - humans can be born 'bad' and wired incorrectly so why can't dogs?

[huski]

I think if you took two different dogs and raised them exactly the same you may very well have a different outcome if their temperaments are different. However if you adapted your training methods to suit each individual personality you could end up with two dogs who appear to have similar temperaments. This is where nature comes in. You can build confidence in a nervous dog who has weaker nerves, but it may require more time, effort and a different approach than what you'd do with a dog that is naturally confident.

[tdierikx]

I think if you took two different dogs and raised them exactly the same you may very well have a different outcome if their temperaments are different. However if you adapted your training methods to suit each individual personality you could end up with two dogs who appear to have similar temperaments. This is where nature comes in. You can build confidence in a nervous dog who has weaker nerves, but it may require more time, effort and a different approach than what you'd do with a dog that is naturally confident.

^^ This ^^^

T.

[Steve]

No doubt about it - Nature has it.

[Salukifan]

The whole point of purebred dogs was that by selective breeding you could increase the chances of certain physical and mental characteristics in a dog.

Perfect case in point - prey drive, left as it was in the game hunting dogs and modified by selection to retrieving, herding. In other breeds it was undesireable and therefore bred out.

Nurture can refine such things or enhance what nature gives but things like drive, resilience, nerve, reactivity are all there from the get go IMO.

There are studies but I'll have to have more time to find them. Purebred dogs are your proof though.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Akayla]

Nature provides the canvas, and nurture provides the paint... that's how I see it anyways. You can go all Pro Hart and get a big ass mess - or you can go Leonardo Da Vinci and get something unique and beautiful.

T.

Love this!

Agree with what others have said. Nature plays a strong part but nurture does too.

Depending on the specific trait we are talking about, I believe could be more likely to have come from one over the other.

[Nekhbet]

The environment can only increase or decrease the expression of behaviors genetically inherent in the animal. You can't create something out of nothing. If that was the case we would not have separate dog breeds but just one generic fit all dog that you molded into whatever you wanted.

As for the pit bull debate, considering the poor quality breeding inherent in the 'type' the fact that there are individuals that will cause harm is not surprising. But then that happens in crap breeding of all breeds - thin nerve, too sharp, shaking/screaming, extremes of personality type etc. In the old days we put these dogs to sleep.

[sandgrubber]

There have been many studies, eg., of breed as affecting temperament. These tend to show, as most pedigree dog people will tell you, that some temperament features vary greatly between breeds. They also vary within breeds, and can be shaped by training. I particularly like the work of Svartberg because the sample size is huge and dogs were assessed by trained evaluators in a laboratory, as opposed to surveys of owners. I hope this link still works.

Breed-typical behaviour in dogs—Historical remnants or recent ...

homepage.psy.utexas.edu/.../Animal%20Personality%20PDFs/... /Svartbu...‎

People's opinions are a dubious source on this subject as many people filter their observations by their agendas. Eg, if you have dogs who may be threatened by breed specific legislation you tend to downplay 'nature' . . . but if you are breeding dogs specifically for herding you tend to work hard to breed 'nature' in to your dogs.

[Dogsfevr]

Many dog attacks is simply due to sheer stupidity .

Breeds have characteristics & there is variables within that .

People can certainly make or break who well a dog can thrive ,see that all to often ,dogs aren't humans .

People also often think you can buy breed A & turn its temp into breed B & that doesn't work either.

When you buy a breed you buy it because you love the whole package it brings & its unique breed characteristics that come with it & need to be trained to that dog & breed .

I also think many Obedience clubs have gone mad with there nice nice approach & to many people give up on good training because the methods they preach don't suit every breed ,individual dog & some trainers won't also think out side the basket

As for Pitbulls we use to baord alot before the new rules came in & they where the one breed we never ever had issues with so of the best dogs we boarded infact .

[sas]

There is absolutely no scientific doubt that we inherit some behavioural traits > All breeds have behavioural characteristics.

From being involved in Rescue circles I can tell you with much confidence that I know of particular lines of dogs that have similar negative behavioural traits i.e. nervy temps that can result in fear aggression even in behavioural savvy homes where people do everything they can for them.

Have seen litters with more than half of them exhibiting serious nervious behaviours outside fear periods in great homes.

Can nuture contribute, of course.

I'm not sure why there is even a Nature vs Nuture debate.

Edited April 28, 2014 by sas

[tobie]

Thanks everyone for your input as I find this sort of discussion quite interesting. We can always learn from what others have to say. I guess that's why I'm studying psychology.

Thanks for the link Sandgrubber. I will definately check it out. :)

[Steve]

Purebred dogs have been actively selected for certain behavioural traits - on the whole humans haven't been.

Dogs also dont have the same cognitive thought abilities that humans have. I dont believe that you can consider temperament which is in my opinion 100% nature to behaviour which you can alter.

AS a purebred dog breeder Ive put a lot of effort into being able to produce a litter of puppies which will be uniform in how they react naturally to certain conditions. In my breeding program with my Maremma my main criteria for selection has been on certain temperament characteristics which make them more suitable for how they will go at working. The impact of how I manage them up until they are 8 weeks old is minuscule in comparison to what they are born with. My litters have less deviation between puppies than a breeder who has had a higher priority on different traits and characteristics. People will often ask me to select the pup in the litter which is most inquisitive, softer in nature etc and hopefully if Im successful at what Im doing that will be very difficult to do.

Up until 6 weeks all puppies in a litter are treated the same and handled the same but at 6 weeks some are placed with the species of animal they will be living with when they go to their new homes. By 8 weeks the ones I have had with the sheep when let out away from the sheep will actively seek out the sheep.

So I see a litter of 10 pups at 6 weeks hard to tell them apart in any way with their behaviour - they all react the same way when I approach them - all line up like lions and bark in unison when a stranger or something - sight or sound they are not familiar with approaches. they are all eager to supervise me as I put the washing on the line and take turns at sitting on my feet and approaching for cuddles. At 8 weeks under the same circumstances only the ones who have been living with humans help supervise the washing procedure the others may come have a bit of a look but dont stay with me. When I walk around the property the ones who have been with humans are eager to walk with me the others cant be bothered and might come a bit of the way but dont come too far away from the animals they have been living with. After a couple of hours of freedom and playing the ones which have been with people are still near the house but the ones who have been with the sheep will go back to the sheep pen to sleep or lay if they cant get back in until I open the gate and they go in. The ones which have been with the chickens do the same with the chook pen. None have ever been rewarded for this - their apparent desire to stay with the species they are familiar with is nature, their desire to bark first rather than bite is nature, their desire to protect their family they are living with and react without direction is nature. Put them in a family home in suburbia and train them all you want but when the stimulus is activated and the dog is working on what it is born with no amount of training works very well. The ease in which a dog can be trained is born in them. The family has to adapt to the breed characteristics just as the sheep do or everyone is miserable and the risk that the dog will be moved out is high.

This is the inherent difference between a breeder and someone who just breeds dogs - the ability to produce an animal which can be predictable in its base instincts, characteristics and management - generation after generation.The ability to be able to place puppies in homes which consistently suit a family's needs and lifestyle.

[Wundahoo]

Purebred dogs have been actively selected for certain behavioural traits - on the whole humans haven't been.

Dogs also dont have the same cognitive thought abilities that humans have. I dont believe that you can consider temperament which is in my opinion 100% nature to behaviour which you can alter.

The ease in which a dog can be trained is born in them. .

This is the inherent difference between a breeder and someone who just breeds dogs - the ability to produce an animal which can be predictable in its base instincts, characteristics and management - generation after generation. The ability to be able to place puppies in homes which consistently suit a family's needs and lifestyle.

Sorry for cutting so much of your post Steve but these are the salient points that I feel are really well put.

Although certain behaviours can be modified, suppressed, magnified or moulded.... the basic temperament is there, rock solid from the day the pup was born into this world.

Breeders need to pay very careful note to the basic building blocks that make the dog a suitable animal for the intended purpose, be that flock guardian, guard dog, lap dog, hunter, retriever, family companion. A good breeder recognises the desirable basic temperament and works hard to maintain and magnify this.

Nurture adds the finish to the product, Nature is the foundation. Start with a shaky foundation and it's really hard to get a smooth finish.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Wundahoo

[BlaznHotAussies]

I really feel a lot of it is nature, in horses and dogs. Just from working with four 2yo breakers a couple of years ago, one of them had been handled from a weanling and show prepped with heaps of going behind a motorbike, tying up, washing, being handled, etc (all by excellent handlers) and another had barely been touched. Guess who was easier to deal with!!! The one that had barely been touched. She was naturally more confident, had a tendency to look and think things through than basically freeze when under any kind of pressure (damn halter-bred QHs...haha).

I also had a dog that, well, had very little confidence, very timid, submissive, and lacked personality or exuberance (except for the first 20m of a walk, then there were a couple of leaps for joy). Yes, it had barely been handled for the first 3 years of it's life & hadn't been off the farm. But after a bit of progress due to me socialising him and trying to make new people/animals/other dogs positive experiences only, never really made a dent in his natural wariness, and at some point there was just no progress despite me taking him everywhere, doing heaps of training, more positive experiences. When all he wanted was to be with his "pack" at my in-laws' house (I got him off them, farm-bred dog) - every time I'd go to feed the horses (who live at the in-laws part of the farm) he would disappear to see the dogs the absolute second I'd look away as soon as we got there. IMHO at some point you have to just say, you know what, this dog won't get better and you know what, if he'd rather not be with me for any reason, I don't want to waste my time, energy or money any more. Apparently he and the rest of his litter, as pups, would literally scatter (for no reason, they weren't abused or anything) when a human rocked up, which I first found out at my highest point of frustration too!

So this has led me to the conclusion that nature plays a huge part in what you'll be able to manage with an animal. I mean, my pup is just...awesome. I'll admit that I didn't really get to socialise him as much as I'd like early on, but on his first trip off the farm he met a bunch of people and was an absolute star! This is what a well-bred dog is like! (well not every well-bred dog is perfect, but you have better chances!). But that's just my experience, YMMV.

Sorry for the essay...wasn't sure what to add/leave out.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I know it is mostly nature.

If it was true that temperament was mainly linked to "nurture" then my house would have been full of nasty/savage/threatening dogs for the last 10 years or so. I've had so many cruelty cases that it defies belief. Some of these dogs have endured long lives of cruelty and yet, I've only been bitten by a couple of foster dogs and one was definitely due to a neurological issue.