curly Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Stupid title, but... Does anyone know how you determine ownership of a dog, in legal terms? Is it the microchip registration? Council registration? Bill of sale? The person caring for the dog? What if different people are listed for each registration, and a third party caring for the dog? Let's say Person A has the Microchip rego, Person B council rego. Person C the sale contract, Person D has the dog. Perhaps the dog was stolen and later sold on (actually happened), so the ownership is muddled. Who's dog is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wundahoo Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 If ownership is disputed it sounds like a nice little money earner for a couple of lawyers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 None and all of the items you listed prove ownership. If there is documented history showing the dog was stolen then this could be used in court to prove ownership of the animal by the person who had it when it was stolen. Like any item where ownership is in dispute, you need to show enough proof that you own it for it to be determined that it is yours. It is the body of evidence that determines ownership, not a single document or even a collection of documents. Also, I believe possession is '9/10ths' of the law in this kind of ownership query. For example, neighbour gives dog to neighbour to mind while they go interstate. Initially the time is only for a few weeks. Payment is made for care for the first few weeks only. Several years pass and the original owner hasn't made contact and then turns up out of the blue asking for the dog. I think if this was taken to court, they wouldn't get their dog back regardless of what paperwork was in their name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Usually in pounds they go by the microchipped owner, IME anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curly Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hmmm, interesting so far! Lawyers won't come into it, way too expensive! Still at the talking stage, I'm just checking things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curly Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Interesting, regarding council rego (not my council though); Whilst registration of your animal is mandatory under the State Government's Animal Management (Cats and Dogs) Act 2008 , registration of the subject animal by a person does not infer or confer ownership of the animal" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Realistically, if I knew the microchip details of someone else's pet, I could register that pet under my name at my council, which is why I think the chip comes first. Edited April 28, 2014 by Dame Aussie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascalmyshadow Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Microchip over rules council registration but if you had a dog in your care for any length of time and you had proof you had paid all expenses, vet bills, rego etc I think the microchip can be over ridden but probably only if it became a legal dispute and the dog hadn't been stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 If the dog had been stolen then onsold, you'd think that the original owner would have some say in whether they want the dog back or not... but it could go any which way methinks. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 It would also depend. If the dog was stolen, say impounded, not claimed then rehomed it may even be harder! Not an easy one, but if it was my dog that was stolen and sold/rehomed I would fight tooth and nail to get it back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Microchip over rules council registration but if you had a dog in your care for any length of time and you had proof you had paid all expenses, vet bills, rego etc I think the microchip can be over ridden but probably only if it became a legal dispute and the dog hadn't been stolen. It doesn't need to be disputed legally necessarily. I rescued a dog that was sold as pup. It was still chipped to the breeder and if was never registered with Council 7 years or so later. The dog was surrendered to me for rehoming due to a marital breakdown. I needed the chip transferred to me. The owner couldn't do this as it wasn't in his name. The breeder decided to argue with me claiming the dog was legally hers as it was still chipped to her and she demanded the dog back. A stat dec from the real owner and evidence of ownership such as veterinary records and the receipt of sale was enough to satisfy the Council who then transferred the chip to me. This was in NSW. Each state may be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'm... sort of of two minds here. On one hand - the breeder could well have had a clause asking for the dog to be returned to them for rehoming if the owner was unable to do so. If that was not honoured, then yes I can see asking for the dog back. However the 'demanded' line strikes me as rude... if they had asked politely I probably wouldn't find the request unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'm... sort of of two minds here. On one hand - the breeder could well have had a clause asking for the dog to be returned to them for rehoming if the owner was unable to do so. If that was not honoured, then yes I can see asking for the dog back. However the 'demanded' line strikes me as rude... if they had asked politely I probably wouldn't find the request unreasonable. It's impossible for a breeder to have such a clause regardless. It's like saying if you buy my car and then want to resell it, you must give if back to the person you purchased it from. Or buying a pair of jeans and expecting you have to return them to the store instead of giving them to your young cousin when you grow out of them. Dogs come under consumer laws. Anyway, in this case the breeder was rude. I had initially contacted her to let her know the dog was in my care as a courtesy. At that point I wasn't aware the chip wasn't in the owners name. The owner completed the forms as requested and it was when I lodged them my fears were realised as the breeder had already stated she wanted the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 In some breeds I would understand, not wanting just anybody to rehome them. But in any case Anne in your example, I am not trying to take the breeders' side and I certainly would not even dream of returning a dog to someone making such rude demands. I'm just saying I understand a breeder who would prefer to rehome themselves, rather than see the dog passed on from person to rescue. But when emotions are involved some people do forget about basic manners and respect, don't they! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascalmyshadow Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Maybe states do differ but I know in Vic if a dog is out roaming and gets picked up the only person that can collect it from a pound or shelter is the person who it is microchipped to. I also know of a person that adopted a dog from a private home wasn't castrated, dog came in for the surgery and was microchipped at the same time. Vets scanned it before it went home and two microchips were found (no one had picked up the old one) turned out the dog went missing two years before and the owners moved to Queensland. The only way the new owners were able to keep the dog was to get a statdec signed by the previous owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You place each 'owner' in the corners of a room. Everyone calls the dog by name. Whomever the dog goes to is the owner. Pretty sure this was explained in quite a few tv shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denali Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You place each 'owner' in the corners of a room. Everyone calls the dog by name. Whomever the dog goes to is the owner. Pretty sure this was explained in quite a few tv shows. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shapeshifter Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Microchip details do not prove ownership but can be used to help prove ownership along with other things like vet bills, feed bills. Without knowing exactly what took place at each change of person there is no way anyone could tell you who is more likely to be able to prove ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think this is correct and sure this occoured we had a DOLer on here with her little Dog Gabby all paper work in her name and dog was left with the neighbours while owner went on holidays , the neighbours went to court and won Gabby as she was in there care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curly Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 You place each 'owner' in the corners of a room. Everyone calls the dog by name. Whomever the dog goes to is the owner. Pretty sure this was explained in quite a few tv shows. I'd win in that case! My ex-puppies always come flying over when they see me! I wonder about those stories you hear where fluffy was found after 7 years and returned to the original owner. Someone else has been caring for Fluffy for all that time - do they get a chance to stake a claim? My dog that was pinched, it might have been 6 years ago but I'd take him back ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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