Outside Dogs

[DaneLover233]

I would just keep sneaking them in when the neighbours aren't looking and if for some reason they ask where the dogs are at night just say you've been crating them.

I have been renting for at least 10 years (finally brought a house!)and have lived in places with 3 dogs when the lease has stated no dogs. It was risky but I got away with it by taking them to my parents on inspection day. Even recently, we have 5 dogs but on the lease we only listed 2.

[lovemesideways]

Just bring them inside. You are only there temporarily and its worth getting in trouble imo. I wasn't supposed to have dogs inside at the last temporary rental I stayed at before we moved to the house we bought, but I just did it anyway. House was immaculate and they had no way of knowing. Wash them weekly to keep down any dog smell, put their crates inside, if they go near carpet, lay down blankets on top of it to keep it as clean as possible.

Take photos of EVERYTHING, garden included.

[Steph M]

I'd be bringing them in as well. I can't imagine mine would do well outside, mostly because we've always had them.in. I wouldn't cope either. Just do it, if the upstairs neighbours are going to spy they're invading your privacy, and would they rather they bark and whine all night? Methinks not.

[Leah82]

I would be ignoring that condition. You have right to quite enjoyment of the property and privacy which means the landlord cannot do anything unless he gathers evidence in lawful way like though routine inspections.

The neighbours can tell the landlord that the dogs are being let inside and the landlord can try and evict you but he'll only be incriminating himself in the process.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

talicat

Once you do get crates - you need to spend some time training the dogs to be comfortable and happy in them.

There's loads of stuff on the net especially youtube about how to do this.

Otherwise you can get a dog that screams in the crate or tears the crate (even a metal one) to pieces.

Two resources I used for crate training...

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html

and Susan Garrett's Crate Games

http://www.agilityclick.com/prod157.htm

If you get the metal mesh crates - and you need to cover them up as part of the training (ie only quiet dogs get a view), then it's a good idea to put a cardboard box or something that holds the cover away from the sides out of reach of dog teeth - or they pull the cover in and shred it. At least that's what my dog did. Use menky old cheap covers (sheets or blankets from the op shop are good).

[twodoggies2001]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property.

I think this is the key to the problem.

Talicat accepted the landlord's offer on the unsaid but implied understanding that the conditions (dogs inside) would be the same as the place they had at the time.

The landlord produced new conditions - because the fittings in the studio (new place) were all new - not because of problems at the previous place.

Talicat and family would never have accepted the new place if they knew that the dogs would be expected to live outside.

The landlord might not have understood that this is a problem with people who have dogs as an intergral part of their family. Lots of people think it is just fine to leave dogs outside all the time.

[twodoggies2001]

By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property.

I think this is the key to the problem.

Talicat accepted the landlord's offer on the unsaid but implied understanding that the conditions (dogs inside) would be the same as the place they had at the time.

The landlord produced new conditions - because the fittings in the studio (new place) were all new - not because of problems at the previous place.

Talicat and family would never have accepted the new place if they knew that the dogs would be expected to live outside.

The landlord might not have understood that this is a problem with people who have dogs as an intergral part of their family. Lots of people think it is just fine to leave dogs outside all the time.

Yes I realise this but it's on Talicat to perform due diligence and I think it's a lesson well learned not to take anything for granted. I agree it's a bit unfair of the landlord but unfortunately now the lease has been signed and both sides should stick by it.

[megan_]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

[Steph M]

Our lease came with a specific provision that the cats were allowed inside, which was quite surprising.

[Taliecat]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

It is specifically outlined in the agreement that they're not allowed inside the unit.

We're lucky to have the garage that I can use as a cuddle area

[pie]

Suck it up and set up the garage as a living space and spend time with the dogs there. It sucks and is wrong but you aren't going to find another rental that allows pets and will rent to you for only 4 months (guessing this is why you signed the lease instead of saying no) - it will be tough but it's not that long, hope it all works out okay.

[twodoggies2001]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

It is specifically outlined in the agreement that they're not allowed inside the unit.

We're lucky to have the garage that I can use as a cuddle area

There's the answer. It's really unfortunate that you found out after the move though. If you moved out early, then as I said before, the terms of the lease would be broken and you would still have to pay the rent until a new tenant, approved by the landlord takes over. At least you have that cuddle area to be with your pups which is a good thing. I know it's hard, and others in this post have said to sneak them in, but if I were you, I'd be careful. You don't want to be caught out, especially when someone the landlord knows looking over y our shoulder.

[dee lee]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

It is specifically outlined in the agreement that they're not allowed inside the unit.

We're lucky to have the garage that I can use as a cuddle area

There's the answer. It's really unfortunate that you found out after the move though. If you moved out early, then as I said before, the terms of the lease would be broken and you would still have to pay the rent until a new tenant, approved by the landlord takes over. At least you have that cuddle area to be with your pups which is a good thing. I know it's hard, and others in this post have said to sneak them in, but if I were you, I'd be careful. You don't want to be caught out, especially when someone the landlord knows looking over y our shoulder.

Twodoggies is right. Legally you don't have a leg to stand on.

You should not have signed the lease if you didn't agree to the conditions. Now you are bound by them & thats exactly what the tribunal will say.

With the owner's friends living upstairs, I'd resist the urge to bring the dogs in, you will get caught & then could be evicted and/or lose your bond. Legally.

[Leah82]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

It is specifically outlined in the agreement that they're not allowed inside the unit.

We're lucky to have the garage that I can use as a cuddle area

There's the answer. It's really unfortunate that you found out after the move though. If you moved out early, then as I said before, the terms of the lease would be broken and you would still have to pay the rent until a new tenant, approved by the landlord takes over. At least you have that cuddle area to be with your pups which is a good thing. I know it's hard, and others in this post have said to sneak them in, but if I were you, I'd be careful. You don't want to be caught out, especially when someone the landlord knows looking over y our shoulder.

Twodoggies is right. Legally you don't have a leg to stand on.

You should not have signed the lease if you didn't agree to the conditions. Now you are bound by them & thats exactly what the tribunal will say.

With the owner's friends living upstairs, I'd resist the urge to bring the dogs in, you will get caught & then could be evicted and/or lose your bond. Legally.

As I mentioned before it doesn't matter if the neighbours catch them bringing the dogs inside. A landlord can't have neighbours essentially spying on their tenants, this goes against the legal rights of the tenants to quiet enjoyment of the property. Landlords aren't even allowed to drive by a property to check the condition of the front yard.

Anything brought the tribunal that was reported to the landlord by their friends and the tenants neighbours will get thrown out. The landlords might find out but legally they won't have a leg to stand on providing the property is seen to be well maintained during routine inspections.

[twodoggies2001]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

It is specifically outlined in the agreement that they're not allowed inside the unit.

We're lucky to have the garage that I can use as a cuddle area

There's the answer. It's really unfortunate that you found out after the move though. If you moved out early, then as I said before, the terms of the lease would be broken and you would still have to pay the rent until a new tenant, approved by the landlord takes over. At least you have that cuddle area to be with your pups which is a good thing. I know it's hard, and others in this post have said to sneak them in, but if I were you, I'd be careful. You don't want to be caught out, especially when someone the landlord knows looking over y our shoulder.

Twodoggies is right. Legally you don't have a leg to stand on.

You should not have signed the lease if you didn't agree to the conditions. Now you are bound by them & thats exactly what the tribunal will say.

With the owner's friends living upstairs, I'd resist the urge to bring the dogs in, you will get caught & then could be evicted and/or lose your bond. Legally.

As I mentioned before it doesn't matter if the neighbours catch them bringing the dogs inside. A landlord can't have neighbours essentially spying on their tenants, this goes against the legal rights of the tenants to quiet enjoyment of the property. Landlords aren't even allowed to drive by a property to check the condition of the front yard.

Anything brought the tribunal that was reported to the landlord by their friends and the tenants neighbours will get thrown out. The landlords might find out but legally they won't have a leg to stand on providing the property is seen to be well maintained during routine inspections.

Not if the signed lease specifically says that the dogs are not to be brought inside. I wouldn't call living in an upstairs area spying on another tenant. An agreement is an agreement otherwise why would anyone go to the extent of signing documents. The tenant in this case by signing the lease agreed to the conditions. That's the way I see it.

[Leah82]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

It is specifically outlined in the agreement that they're not allowed inside the unit.

We're lucky to have the garage that I can use as a cuddle area

There's the answer. It's really unfortunate that you found out after the move though. If you moved out early, then as I said before, the terms of the lease would be broken and you would still have to pay the rent until a new tenant, approved by the landlord takes over. At least you have that cuddle area to be with your pups which is a good thing. I know it's hard, and others in this post have said to sneak them in, but if I were you, I'd be careful. You don't want to be caught out, especially when someone the landlord knows looking over y our shoulder.

Twodoggies is right. Legally you don't have a leg to stand on.

You should not have signed the lease if you didn't agree to the conditions. Now you are bound by them & thats exactly what the tribunal will say.

With the owner's friends living upstairs, I'd resist the urge to bring the dogs in, you will get caught & then could be evicted and/or lose your bond. Legally.

As I mentioned before it doesn't matter if the neighbours catch them bringing the dogs inside. A landlord can't have neighbours essentially spying on their tenants, this goes against the legal rights of the tenants to quiet enjoyment of the property. Landlords aren't even allowed to drive by a property to check the condition of the front yard.

Anything brought the tribunal that was reported to the landlord by their friends and the tenants neighbours will get thrown out. The landlords might find out but legally they won't have a leg to stand on providing the property is seen to be well maintained during routine inspections.

Not if the signed lease specifically says that the dogs are not to be brought inside. I wouldn't call living in an upstairs area spying on another tenant. An agreement is an agreement otherwise why would anyone go to the extent of signing documents. The tenant in this case by signing the lease agreed to the conditions. That's the way I see it.

That might be how you see it but that's not the way the law sees it. Yes they signed a lease saying the dogs would be outside but the landlord cannot prove they are breaking that condition unless they see it for themselves during a scheduled inspection. Tenants have rights too and those right include not having your landlord or their friends spying on you.

Here is a detailed article about the rules and regulations around quiet enjoyment in QLD... http://tuq.org.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Entry-and-Privacy-Nov-09_SD.pdf

As far as the neighbours go I get the impression that they'll only be able to tell if the dogs are not in the backyard. If they are not in the backyard they could either be inside or in the garage. If the neighbours tell the landlord that the dogs are inside and are actually in the garage then what is protecting the tenants then?

It's the same for any neighbourhood complaints, you can't film someone else's backyard and produce that as evidence, there have been plenty of examples of this in this forum alone.

[Dame Aussie]

Thanks Leah, good info

[twodoggies2001]

I'm sorry I'm going against the trend. Firstly, as a tenant, you firstly sign a lease with the real estate agent, or as in your case, the landlord. You don't sign after the event. Me as a landlord would want to get conditions sorted out before any signatures are put to paper. Secondly, a lease is a contract between landlord and tenant, so you can't just move out. You would be breaking the contract and be liable for rent up until a replacement tenant is found for the same amount of money as the lease is signed for. Thirdly, if the lease has been signed, even after the move, and the lease stipulates no dogs inside, then this needs to be adhered to. By the way, I do find it odd that if you have rented another property from this same landlord and dogs were allowed indoors he should now disallow them unless the dogs created some sort of a problem inside the property. No point in being sneaky. It may come back to bite you on the bum. By breaking this agreement, could in future go against your references for another rental property.

There is nothing in the contract about the dogs not being inside - do the landlord is breaking the agreement, not the tenant. In Vic it is illegal for a landlord not to allow pets inside unless it is specifically outlined in the contract.

It is specifically outlined in the agreement that they're not allowed inside the unit.

We're lucky to have the garage that I can use as a cuddle area

There's the answer. It's really unfortunate that you found out after the move though. If you moved out early, then as I said before, the terms of the lease would be broken and you would still have to pay the rent until a new tenant, approved by the landlord takes over. At least you have that cuddle area to be with your pups which is a good thing. I know it's hard, and others in this post have said to sneak them in, but if I were you, I'd be careful. You don't want to be caught out, especially when someone the landlord knows looking over y our shoulder.

Twodoggies is right. Legally you don't have a leg to stand on.

You should not have signed the lease if you didn't agree to the conditions. Now you are bound by them & thats exactly what the tribunal will say.

With the owner's friends living upstairs, I'd resist the urge to bring the dogs in, you will get caught & then could be evicted and/or lose your bond. Legally.

As I mentioned before it doesn't matter if the neighbours catch them bringing the dogs inside. A landlord can't have neighbours essentially spying on their tenants, this goes against the legal rights of the tenants to quiet enjoyment of the property. Landlords aren't even allowed to drive by a property to check the condition of the front yard.

Anything brought the tribunal that was reported to the landlord by their friends and the tenants neighbours will get thrown out. The landlords might find out but legally they won't have a leg to stand on providing the property is seen to be well maintained during routine inspections.

Not if the signed lease specifically says that the dogs are not to be brought inside. I wouldn't call living in an upstairs area spying on another tenant. An agreement is an agreement otherwise why would anyone go to the extent of signing documents. The tenant in this case by signing the lease agreed to the conditions. That's the way I see it.

That might be how you see it but that's not the way the law sees it. Yes they signed a lease saying the dogs would be outside but the landlord cannot prove they are breaking that condition unless they see it for themselves during a scheduled inspection. Tenants have rights too and those right include not having your landlord or their friends spying on you.

Here is a detailed article about the rules and regulations around quiet enjoyment in QLD... http://tuq.org.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Entry-and-Privacy-Nov-09_SD.pdf

As far as the neighbours go I get the impression that they'll only be able to tell if the dogs are not in the backyard. If they are not in the backyard they could either be inside or in the garage. If the neighbours tell the landlord that the dogs are inside and are actually in the garage then what is protecting the tenants then?

It's the same for any neighbourhood complaints, you can't film someone else's backyard and produce that as evidence, there have been plenty of examples of this in this forum alone.

Yes tenants do have rights too as do landlords. I am NOT saying that the neighbours should spy as you infer but take the scenario that if they are friends of the landlord and the conversation comes up about the dogs and the neighbour mentions that he doesn't see them in the yard then perhaps the landlord has the right to ensure that the dogs have not been allowed in the house. If they are sleeping in the garage, then good on the tenants for keeping their side of the lease agreement as they should. If not, then they are breaking that agreement. Any sensible person would check things out first to back up any suspicions if they exist.

[Dame Aussie]

Yes but the landlord would need to see the dogs inside the house themselves in order to do anything is what Leah was saying I think.