Breed Selection Advice

[tobie]

Hi All,

I'm hoping someone may be able to help with some advice as after the passing of our old boy to cancer I'm now looking into getting another dog. I have 2 young children aged 18 months and 4 years so it is very important that the breed I select is known for being suitable with young children. We also have a cat and a 10 year old large breed bitch who is good with other dogs of all ages and sizes.

From the research I have done I am leaning towards getting a Cocker Spaniel (english) so I am very interested in hearing peoples thoughts. I do like the appearance of the American Cocker but don't really know anything about their temperaments and suitability for our situation. Does anyone know if they are the same or much different from the English Cocker?

I also was interested in the Cavalier but have read some negative things about their health which has turned me off them but was interested to hear if this was true as I don't know anyone involved in the breed to get advice from. I am also unsure if the Cavalier would be active and robust enough for my family.

My children are quite active, we go camping often with our dogs and I will definately be showing our new dog. There is someone home most of the time. I'm not sure what other information to provide so just ask if you need to know anything about our situation.

Thank you

[Gretel]

Cavaliers are certainly sturdy enough to be a family dog and to do whatever their family is up to. In over 30 years the vast majority of Cavaliers I've known have had lovely temperaments. Yes there are health issues but there are in every breed. I've only known a couple of cockers. One was very aggressive and the other was very timid. I realise that's not many dogs to base anything on but it has coloured my view of the breed. I've known some very sweet American cockers.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Gretel

[Salukifan]

If you were looking at a first time show dog and want to minimise the work on coat, go the CKCS but know that it's a tough breed for competition (indeed all three are)

I love the Yanks but that coat requires a hell of a lot of work on a show dog. I think any of them will make fine family dogs.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[denali]

I may be a bit bias, but cavaliers would be perfect :D

Mine are very active dogs.

Super friendly, happy, and easy to train.

Two of mine come hiking, (the other is a recent rescue and is very overweight, so he doesnt accompany us yet), do agility, i want to start my tri in flyball, and my ruby LOVES swimming in dams. They could run all day.

Yet, wont destroy your entire house if left without a walk for a couple of days.

They are not generally nuisance barkers. Mine only bark at the postman, and sometimes my ruby does when he gets excited.

They are supposedly horrid shedders, but i dont notice it too much. All my cats are worse!

Just a brush every couple of days and they're fine.

They are very good with children, and not as fragile as they would appear.

But of course with any dog and overly excited children things could happen.

I work at a doggy daycare, and 90% of the cockers get snappy.

Which may not be a good trait with children?

but this could also probably be managed with training.

They also seem very timid and withdrawn with strangers, and often just go and sit in a corner.

ETA: never met an american cocker, the above is in regards to english cockers :)

Edited April 26, 2014 by denali

[persephone]

The happiest cavs I have known were a pack who lived on a small property with cattle, lots of birds to chase away from a vineyard ..and plenty of obedience training . they were also shown!

[Leah82]

Our english cocker is definitely a robust little guy. He loves everyone and has loads of confidence, this is in part how he was raised but also you need to make sure you pick a breeder that focuses on temperament.

Collie has been camping a lot and always very reliable in the bush, he'll wander around but make sure he's still in eye shot of one of his people. This won't continue for much longer as he has PRA and therefore is loosing his sight but as long as the breeders test for it you won't need to worry about it.

Downsides would definitely be from a grooming perspective, ours was clipped by an incompetent groomer when he was little so now he gets very woolly and needs clipping regularly. We're ok with it but he would not be able to be shown clipped, even though he was registered in the main register. You would need to become familiar with hand stripping to show them.

Other than that this is a really good description of the breed - they definitely have a flair for the dramatic :)

https://www.facebook.com/notes/english-cocker-spaniels-australia/is-a-cocker-the-breed-for-you/454154031293368

[Gretel]

Yes as far as showing the Cav is a lot easier. I love the look of an American in show clip but they certainly take work to look that good. Cavs are completely untrimmed for the show ring.

[Leah82]

some people's experience here with cockers is interesting, they're definitely not supposed to be timid or snappy according to the breed standard and it's not been my experience. Finding the right breeder and obviously training, socialisation and lots of love should prevent this from being an issue.

[Wundahoo]

I may be a bit bias, but cavaliers would be perfect :D

Mine are very active dogs.

Super friendly, happy, and easy to train.

Two of mine come hiking, (the other is a recent rescue and is very overweight, so he doesnt accompany us yet), do agility, i want to start my tri in flyball, and my ruby LOVES swimming in dams. They could run all day.

Yet, wont destroy your entire house if left without a walk for a couple of days.

They are not generally nuisance barkers. Mine only bark at the postman, and sometimes my ruby does when he gets excited.

They are supposedly horrid shedders, but i dont notice it too much. All my cats are worse!

Just a brush every couple of days and they're fine.

They are very good with children, and not as fragile as they would appear.

But of course with any dog and overly excited children things could happen.

I work at a doggy daycare, and 90% of the cockers get snappy.

Which may not be a good trait with children?

but this could also probably be managed with training.

They also seem very timid and withdrawn with strangers, and often just go and sit in a corner.

ETA: never met an american cocker, the above is in regards to english cockers :)

Whoa, Denali !!! Do you know where all these snappy and timid cockers have come from ??????

The breed is not meant to be that way and the majority of cockers that come from registered, responsible cocker breeders are happy, people and child friendly dogs. There are way too many cockers sold through pet shops and BYB's and most of these are not from good stock.

I would also suggest that if you are seeing these dogs at doggy day care, they are probably not getting much input from their owners.... at least they are being sent somewhere that they might get some socialisation, but it sounds as though it's way too late.

I will not send my puppies to homes where there is not someone around for a large part of the day as the breed needs company and good quality training/supervision while growing. Sourced from an experienced and responsible breeder a cocker is a wonderful family companion and is robust, sturdy and active and social with kids and other dogs.

As to a cocker as a first time show dog, it's imperative that a breed mentor is by your side to teach you the requirements of trimming and grooming.

Many people think that there is more work in an American Cocker's coat than in an English, but truth be known there is far more in the way of scissoring, shaping, sculpturing and hand stripping to get an English Cocker ring ready than an American.

I think that all three breeds will be suited to your needs as long as your puppy comes from an experienced, registered and responsible breeder who health checks their stock. Your decision might be tempered by the amount of coat work needed to prepare the two cocker breeds for the ring. Cavaliers are easy as long as they have the required amount of furnishings. They are a strictly non-trim breed for the showring and will be heavily penalised if there is any signs of scissor work on the dog. Both cocker breeds on the other hand need a lot of work. The Americans require some hand stripping but mostly, lots of brushing and development of the length of the coat. English cockers should be prepared by hand stripping and careful scissoring although there are some who resort to clippering and a lot of scissoring to get the outline. Personally I hate the overt clippering that has crept into the the breed in some quarters.

[Gretel]

Both cockers I knew came from a long time show breeder.

We don't see many cockers about anymore. I was pleasantly surprised to see lots when we went to England last year. They used to be so popular here when I was a kid.

[denali]

Whoa, Denali !!! Do you know where all these snappy and timid cockers have come from ??????

The breed is not meant to be that way and the majority of cockers that come from registered, responsible cocker breeders are happy, people and child friendly dogs. There are way too many cockers sold through pet shops and BYB's and most of these are not from good stock.

I would also suggest that if you are seeing these dogs at doggy day care, they are probably not getting much input from their owners.... at least they are being sent somewhere that they might get some socialisation, but it sounds as though it's way too late.

I will not send my puppies to homes where there is not someone around for a large part of the day as the breed needs company and good quality training/supervision while growing. Sourced from an experienced and responsible breeder a cocker is a wonderful family companion and is robust, sturdy and active and social with kids and other dogs.

As to a cocker as a first time show dog, it's imperative that a breed mentor is by your side to teach you the requirements of trimming and grooming.

Many people think that there is more work in an American Cocker's coat than in an English, but truth be known there is far more in the way of scissoring, shaping, sculpturing and hand stripping to get an English Cocker ring ready than an American.

I think that all three breeds will be suited to your needs as long as your puppy comes from an experienced, registered and responsible breeder who health checks their stock. Your decision might be tempered by the amount of coat work needed to prepare the two cocker breeds for the ring. Cavaliers are easy as long as they have the required amount of furnishings. They are a strictly non-trim breed for the showring and will be heavily penalised if there is any signs of scissor work on the dog. Both cocker breeds on the other hand need a lot of work. The Americans require some hand stripping but mostly, lots of brushing and development of the length of the coat. English cockers should be prepared by hand stripping and careful scissoring although there are some who resort to clippering and a lot of scissoring to get the outline. Personally I hate the overt clippering that has crept into the the breed in some quarters.

No, i have no idea where they're from.

Could be breeders, or could be pet shops/BYB type.

Either way, i thought they were meant to be very happy dogs, like the cavs. But all the frequent ones are timid and snappy

I agree that they certainly need training, of which i only know of one owner that comes in that does this with her two cockers. They still prefer to sit together on the bed away from everyone.

I have never understood why they come haha

But i agree with everything you have said about going through a responsible breeder. This helps health issue wise and then you can meet all of their dogs so you know their personalities :)

If they refuse this, go elsewhere.

[Dogsfevr]

I owned & showed Americans for many years ,love the breed but yes showing & coat work each week is a big commitment & having a mentor to help you groom is a must .

Cockers & are still a big commitment for coat work & Cavies are aswell but certainly less than the othe two but keeping the coat white is all part of weekly coat work .

I would suggest going to shows & seeing all three breeds in show coats & doing lots of talking .

All 3 breeds require health testing & have there own issues .

Americans tend to be ore full on than Cockers in one way but very easy to live with ,train & great with kids ,I will say though the Parti colours can be slightly different in nature & would suggest a solid colour

[julesluvscavs]

I love Cavaliers and will always own them :)

Yes they can be prone to a few different genetic health issues, but there's no guarantees with any breed of dog for perfect health. Obviously with any breed you are intending on choosing, make sure you are aware of any of their known health issues and look into good breeders that try their best to keep their lines healthy ( as can be)

One of ours Renae is almost 12. We did have her son until last year. He had just turned 9 but had developed an aggressive brain tumour (which came on completely out of the blue within a few months) He had been very healthy otherwise till then and was still heart clear. It was just one of those things that could have happened to any breed of dog.

We have a young Cav who will be 2 this Nov, shes been fairly hardy so far , has been to the vet for a couple things but not really for breed related issues. She loves everything and everyone and nothing fazes her. Has an exceptional temperament :)

Like most breeds of dogs, Cavs can have their own different personalities, but they should be friendly, outgoing and happy.

More detailed info about them can be found in the 101 dog breeds section of DOL :)

Edited April 26, 2014 by Jules❤3Cavs

[Jed]

I have Cocker Spaniels, and Cavaliers. Don't have American Cockers, but do know some. For showing Cavaliers are the least grooming. Trimming is not allowed. They need brushing a few times a week, and the hair on the pads trimming. Cockers need more grooming, and trimming. American Cockers, imho, need more grooming and trimming still.

The majority of Cockers are nice natured and very good with children. Often when problems arise, it is from either bad breeding, or because the owners have treated them like fluffy puppies, and forgotten they are, at heart, a working dog, and do need some boundaries. Apart from that I agree with what Dr. Wundahoo has said about Cockers.

Temperament is different in Cockers and Cavaliers, one is not better or worse, just different - there are more health problems in Cavaliers. Also it will be easier to buy a show quality Cocker.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I've got friends with Welsh Springer Spaniels.

While it's not a dog I'd want to get (long coat, and easily distracted), the ones I've met are very friendly with dogs and people.

[denali]

I've got friends with Welsh Springer Spaniels.

While it's not a dog I'd want to get (long coat, and easily distracted), the ones I've met are very friendly with dogs and people.

My aunty has always had welsh springers.

They are all so lovely!

[Kavik]

I work at a doggy daycare, and 90% of the cockers get snappy.

Which may not be a good trait with children?

but this could also probably be managed with training.

They also seem very timid and withdrawn with strangers, and often just go and sit in a corner.

ETA: never met an american cocker, the above is in regards to english cockers :)

I have worked at a dog daycare as well, and having done so, I think that the environment may not show all dogs at their best, or even what they are normally like. So I wouldn't base your opinions purely on what they are like there.

[benshiva]

some people's experience here with cockers is interesting, they're definitely not supposed to be timid or snappy according to the breed standard and it's not been my experience. Finding the right breeder and obviously training, socialisation and lots of love should prevent this from being an issue.

This. I've never found a snappy or timid Cocker ever.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

some people's experience here with cockers is interesting, they're definitely not supposed to be timid or snappy according to the breed standard and it's not been my experience. Finding the right breeder and obviously training, socialisation and lots of love should prevent this from being an issue.

This. I've never found a snappy or timid Cocker ever.

I tried to help rehome one and the dog had what they call "Cocker rage", it wasn't nice behaviour - the dog was from a registered breeder. I've met many lovely Cockers though so important to find a very good breeder.

[tobie]

Thank you everyone for your input . You have all given me alot to think about.

I must say I'm finding it a really hard decision to make as there are so many positive things about all these dogs.

I'm not worried about the grooming aspects as I really enjoy grooming dogs. In the past I have owned long haired dogs for 16 years and worked in animal shelters were I groomed, clipped and bathed dogs on a daily basis and sadly alot of these dogs coats were heavily matted caused by years of neglect. I believe I would just need to learn how to prepare the breed I select for showing. I am doing as much research as possible and plan on finding a breeder who will be willing to help me learn how to correctly groom and prepare the dog for showing. Before I had my children I used to show my dogs and I really enjoyed the show atmosphere and would love to get back into it.

Thanks again everyone for your input as it is much appreciated :)