How Do You Decide?

[Loreley]

what does that have to do with the current discussion trifecta?

[_PL_]

Darren I've known you to be just as vehemently 'judgemental'. Adoption fees, the use of breed names, fundraising and marketing etc etc.

I don't really understand this.

You have the right to an opinion just like everybody else. But literally everyone thinks they are ethical anyway so yes, you'll get judgement everywhere. It's in the eye of the beholder apparently.

Not everyone thinks that old dogs are worth the trouble but in my opinion they are. That's rescue.

Judging foster carers and bemoaning them for saving lives is in the eye of the beholder? Come on.

There's a difference between having an opinion and using that opinion to pretty much bully people because they're not someone's idea of "ethical." I'm not saying that is happening right here in this thread but that absolutely happens in the 'rescue world.' A lot.

What would you suggest to the rescuer who left behind a rather plain bullbreed/bullarab type female and took her babies, they used the same reasons carer/room/facilities/rehomeable. Mum was pts, pound was packed. Would you judge them?

No. Not so long ago I would have. I've moved beyond that though and understand that the only one responsible for the death of that mother dog is the pound that kills her.

People don't have to rescue at all. I don't much care what their reasons for rescuing are - only that they are rescuing and hopefully doing it well. Other than that, it's none of my business.

That's the response I expected.

Sorry Loreley, off topic.

[Plan B]

That's the response I expected.

Then please do everyone a favour and don't ask again if you're just going to be dismissive of the response. It's uncalled for and just plain petty.

[_PL_]

That's the response I expected.

Then please do everyone a favour and don't ask again if you're just going to be dismissive of the response. It's uncalled for and just plain petty.

Oh get over yourself. Petty? You responded and I acknowledged in all honesty. The thread is going off topic and I honestly can't be bothered arguing with you and whoever else will pop in to defend you.

[Dame Aussie]

Every time I read a rescue thread rescuers are fighting with each other. Why?

[Loreley]

Every time I read a rescue thread rescuers are fighting with each other. Why?

because the people involved are passionate wonderful people who care very deeply and that often causes friction.

[Guest Wildthing]

Wildthing, exactly how many cats do you currently have available for adoption?

I am always concerned when people have to know how many animals someone else has. As a result of my honesty in the past and people being ridiculous, I no longer count how many cats I have available for adoption, because I really do not think it matters. If the cats are in good health, are taken to a vet, if and when necessary and do not annoy the neighbours (if there are any), they receive a high standard of care, then what has numbers got to do with the situation.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Wildthing

[Dame Aussie]

Every time I read a rescue thread rescuers are fighting with each other. Why?

because the people involved are passionate wonderful people who care very deeply and that often causes friction.

I wouldn't even question that, but isn't it more effective to work together?

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Every time I read a rescue thread rescuers are fighting with each other. Why?

because the people involved are passionate wonderful people who care very deeply and that often causes friction.

I wouldn't even question that, but isn't it more effective to work together?

I think you are exaggerating about every thread. It isn't realistic to expect rescuers to work together - we all have different ideas and standards - I work with a number of other rescuers all the time, most of them are not even on here.

If you took 10 school teachers, they'd all have different ideas, so would 10 surgeons, 10 caterers and so on and so it goes with rescuers - it's quite normal that we don't all agree.

[Dame Aussie]

Sorry, I said every thread I read, not all threads, I don't read every thread in here. It was just an observation that's all.

[Just Andrea]

Wildthing I am assuming your continual digs at a group for taking kittens from a pound three hours away and taking some semi feral kittens is having a go at me.

Not cool at all. You have no f***ing clue what I have or haven't been doing or why for last couple of weeks.

I don't have time to go to into detail nor do I need to justify not taking those two six month old cats that I didn't have anyone for or know about because I was too busy dealing with other animals, pounds and issues while dealing with a very sick bub.

I do my best, like everyone else.

Have a nice day. Thanks for making mine after seeing this.

[Guest Wildthing]

I do not give a damm what you or anyone else thinks of me now or in the future. I have every right to say what I think, just like you and everyone else does, whether anyone agrees with it or not.

You have no idea what I have been dealing with (cat wise) or what I have been doing with saving cats either and quite frankly I do not give a damm what you have been doing.

Hope you enjoy yourself for the rest of your life. Very pleased I have made your day. You are not the olny one who deals with things other than humans, animals and health issues, but from past experience with you, yours are always far worse than anyone elses.

ETA I am referring to the post from Just Andrea for those that were not sure.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Wildthing

[Just Andrea]

We are all busy with our own rescues like you and do what we can when we can.

I didn't and couldn't take these kittens but neither did you or anyone else.

It's not a competition about who has a bigger load in life or who does more.

I am doing what I can. Stop judging others efforts and just get on with the job....

You clearly have your hands full with your trapping efforts.... So I am sure your energy can be put to better use.

[tdierikx]

Just asking - not judging - but why are you trapping these cats and taking them to the pound when you know what the inevitable out come will be when no-one wants to take on wild or semi-wild young or adult cats?

T.

[Guest Wildthing]

As I said, you have no idea what I am doing in regards to rescuing animals. You also may not realise that I actually trapped those 2 girls and treated them for ringworm, domesticated them and had one in foster care until the carer was admitted to hospital unexpectedly. That is how I know she was a lap cat. I gave the rangers a way to save those girls and they refused outright. To my way of thinking, that is not acceptable. No idea what others think and do not care. Due to that and some other issues that I do not discuss with anyone, I have retired from active rescue and I no longer take any species of animal from Queanbeyan pound. I feel sorry for any felines that have the misfortune to end up there. I believe I have gone above and beyond in the last 19 years, with a lot of what I have achieved being done behind the scenes. I am not beholden to anyone for my actions. In my opinion, I have not been put on this earth to please other people.

Unless what I have read on the DOL threads over the last few weeks is not accurate, I do have some idea as to what gets saved and by whom, on some occasions. However, I will no longer be reading any threads as I am not in rescue anymore. Anything I might do will be done privately without anyone knowing.

I had made arrangements with a ranger to take some kittens when they were old enough, that were born to a heavily pregnant cat I saved from QBN pound. That will not, under any circumstances be happening now. They will be dealt with by me. I am concerned a ranger might not like them, like they did not like those two girls, which would mean they end up dead as well.

I did not take the girls because I am overflowing and I foolishly thought they would get adopted from the pound or I could work something out with a ranger to save them. I have not had any enquiries for months until the weekend when I have had one adoption.

[Guest Wildthing]

Just asking - not judging - but why are you trapping these cats and taking them to the pound when you know what the inevitable out come will be when no-one wants to take on wild or semi-wild young or adult cats?

T.

I trapped those two girls when they were around 8 weeks old. They were around 6 months old when they were killed and had been at the pound for 3 weeks. They were domesticated by me and treated for ringworm. The ginger and white girl had been in foster care and was a lap cat. To my way of thinking, that is not a wild or semi-wild feline. Any further felines I trap from the same site will not be going to that pound under any circumstances.

My gripe is that I gave a ranger the opportunity to save them and they refused outright. I know from past experience with the same pound, that it can be done and has been done with me. No idea what happens with anyone else unless they tell me.

15 adults from the same site were trapped by a ranger last June and taken to the pound. Everyone of those adults were killed, despite the ranger admitting to me they could touch some of them. I can accept that, but not the way those girls were treated. Not sure if I am making myself clear on this issue.

[tdierikx]

Again, not judging, just enquiring as I'm not terribly au fait with cats or cat rescue... being horribly allergic to them tends to keep me out of that particular loop.

My experience with dog rescue however gives me a little insight as to how rescue and fostering usually works. We take in the animals that we can adequately cope with and rehome, and as much as it kills us to do so, we have to make decisions about which animals we can safely do that for - and leave others behind to the fate we KNOW is in store for them if they are not rescued or adopted.

Each carer's setup is different - some can take on more animals than others - but if all available carers for a specific type of animal are taken already, then unfortunately some animals will have to be left behind (so to speak). It's going to be even harder if the animals left behind have certain needs that will have to be worked on before they are ultimately rehomable - which I would assume to be the case with only semi-tame (ex) feral cats.

My setup allowed me to take on puppies only - not because I only wanted to take on the young and highly adoptable animals, but because that was what worked in best with my own 4 dogs. I would regularly have between 1 and 14 pups at any given time. I would assume that people taking in kittens are probably in the same boat as me... it's what they can adequately cope with - rather than just because they are cute and MAY rehome faster.

As for not knowing what YOU do - the same can be said for YOU not necessarily being aware of what others are doing in rescue circles. To start spraying "blame" around for the deaths of animals that YOU took the othe pound because you found yourself unable to take them back in is a bit rich, don't you think? Technically the pound could have euthanaised those 2 young cats the day you surrendered them - but your own account says they actually had them taking up space there for 3 weeks before being euthed... I'd say that shows that they gave them at least the SAME chance as all the other cats in their facility at the time, no?

T.

[Guest Wildthing]

Again, not judging, just enquiring as I'm not terribly au fait with cats or cat rescue... being horribly allergic to them tends to keep me out of that particular loop.

My experience with dog rescue however gives me a little insight as to how rescue and fostering usually works. We take in the animals that we can adequately cope with and rehome, and as much as it kills us to do so, we have to make decisions about which animals we can safely do that for - and leave others behind to the fate we KNOW is in store for them if they are not rescued or adopted.

Each carer's setup is different - some can take on more animals than others - but if all available carers for a specific type of animal are taken already, then unfortunately some animals will have to be left behind (so to speak). It's going to be even harder if the animals left behind have certain needs that will have to be worked on before they are ultimately rehomable - which I would assume to be the case with only semi-tame (ex) feral cats.

Feral cats are those that live in the bush and it is very rare a human will see them. They are usually very big felines- sometimes the size of a small dog.

Suburban wilds are those that live in and around humans, but are not physically touched by humans. Suburban wilds are relatively easy for me to domesticate as I have been doing it for years.

My setup allowed me to take on puppies only - not because I only wanted to take on the young and highly adoptable animals, but because that was what worked in best with my own 4 dogs. I would regularly have between 1 and 14 pups at any given time. I would assume that people taking in kittens are probably in the same boat as me... it's what they can adequately cope with - rather than just because they are cute and MAY rehome faster.

I have taken cats of any age over the years and they do not live in cages. They live in the house like any domestic pet. They are inside/outside cats and kittens and sometimes there are verbal disagreements between cats. I deal with that immediately I hear it as I am at home most of the time. I have a cat fence around my boundary. Over the years, I have domesticated numerous felines of varying ages. It is harder when they are older, but not impossible. My preference is to have them come into care before they are 12 weeks old because it is easier to domesticate. However, I currently have a 6 month girl who has domesticated very easily.

As for not knowing what YOU do - the same can be said for YOU not necessarily being aware of what others are doing in rescue circles. To start spraying "blame" around for the deaths of animals that YOU took the othe pound because you found yourself unable to take them back in is a bit rich, don't you think? NO I do notThey were taken to the pound because I thought they would sell quicker than here with me given I had not any enquires for any felines for months. I am also legally bound to take them to the pound because I trapped them and technically could not guarantee they did not belong to an unknown person/s. I had filled in a Stat Dec to cover myself.

Technically the pound could have euthanaised those 2 young cats the day you surrendered them.

I am not sure on that technicality so cannot answer until I ask a ranger -

but your own account says they actually had them taking up space there for 3 weeks before being euthed... I'd say that shows that they gave them at least the SAME chance as all the other cats in their facility at the time, no? Not in my opinion. Just gave them the same length of time. Rangers often interact with felines in the pound. Given the main 'cat' ranger at the pound told me they did not like the felines from that site, that tells me they were not interested in putting the same effort into settling them down in a stressful situation that they do for others. I call that favouritism. A hugh effort was put into an entire adult male at the pound because he was not coping. QBN pound hold all species for 3 weeks. I gave a ranger the opportunity to save them, but they refused outright. The same thing has been done with cats over the years involving myself. I do not ask what they do with other people. A ranger had also told me they would phone the RSPCA later that day (via email)to see if they would take them. That did not happen because the girls were taken to the vet in the morning. I have been told that by the Supervisor of Rangers. Had I known the RSPCA would not be called, I would have done something to save the girls and taken them to the RSPCA myself. I did phone the vet they were taken to just in case they were still alive, but unfortunately they were not.

I do have an idea as to what other rescuers are doing by reading threads on DOL. I know you take puppies due to what I have read. I also know where you have taken some of them from. I also know there are rescuers who take specific breeds of dogs and I have dealt with some of them over the years when I have been trying to help that species in the community.

There was a way to save those two girls, but a ranger refused.

T.

[tdierikx]

Are you stating that the rangers actually refused to let anyone get those 2 cats out of the pound? Actively discouraged people against taking them?

Or are you bemoaning the fact that no other rescues were willing to take them in after YOU had taken them to the pound?

The pound did not have to hold those surrendered cats at all - but they DID hold them for 3 weeks...

I'm sorry that I may have used incorrect terminology by referring to the cats you sent to the pound as "feral" instead of "suburban wild"... me not being involved with cats sees any non-domestic wild or semi-wild cat as "feral"... and yes, living rural as a young-un I have seen truly feral cats before...

Something else that is a bit of a worry is that you say that you are legally bound to take stray cats to the pound in case they may have been owned by someone. How the hell do you think the possible original owners would have found them if they were at your place or in the care of one of your foster homes for however many weeks you had them before taking them to said pound? If one of your own cats/kittens went missing, where would you be actively looking for them?

Maybe you need to stop trapping cats and foisting them upon others to find them homes if you can't handle them all yourself... just saying...

T.

ETA... I haven't been involved with ANY fostering for nearly 12 months now... since having a litter of pups here with Parvo...

Edited April 28, 2014 by tdierikx

[Guest Wildthing]

I am stating there was a way for those cats to be saved if the ranger had done what has been done in the past. It would not have involved any other person except me and the ranger. It has been done by a ranger for me in the past, that is how I know about it. My gripe is the fact a ranger refused outright to do that to save the girls.

A lot of people do not know the difference between suburban wilds and ferals. Consequently, I just state the differences in the hope more people learn. I had to learn once.

Every time I trapped a feline at that site, I notified the pound of the colour, sex and approximate age of the kittens as being 'found', in case an owner was looking for them. If one of my felines went missing, I doubt I would even bother with QBN pound as it is NSW and very few so called 'found' felines are taken there from the ACT. I would notify the RSPCA, but would not expect it to turn up there.

The arrangement with the pound was that I would trap, domesticate, treat for ringworm (ringworm is rampant at the site amongst the kittens)and take them to the pound when all that had been achieved and there was a space at the pound. The lack of available space for those girls when they were younger was the sole reason they were 6 months old when they were taken back. I had taken 3 kittens from the same site to the pound when they were young and 2 sold immediately and the other was taken to the RSPCA when she did not get adopted.

I will not stop trapping. What I will do is not take any feline to QBN pound ever again. Any felines I trap in NSW will be taken to the RSPCA. I do have the option of taking them to the nearest pound, shelter or RSPCA.

Yes, I remember you having a Parvo outbreak, but did not realise it was so long ago. Time flys!