How Do You Decide?

[Burkes]

Yep, I don't think it helps anyone to go blaming people for what they are taking and from where. Perhaps this carer has a very good reason for taking younger kittens. Just like with dogs, not all cats fit in to all families.

Some of the rescue groups that seem to be being blamed for not taking from Qbn have been saving cats and dogs from rural pounds since forever.

I find this blame game a bit sickening personally.

[lokelani]

All the cats are deserving of their own homes, but adoptions this way are non existent at the moment. I hope there are people out there that are prepared to open their homes and hearts to these cats as they all deserve a chance.

The girls are from a colony of suburban wilds and have endured a terrible start to their lives. Given a chance the ginger girl is a lap cat. She needs a quiet home with older people. The other girl remains shy due to her background, but she has enormous potential to be an affectionate girl given a chance.

Tiger did once have a home, but he needs another permanent one now.

I do not have any space and do not have anyone I can ask to help these felines. If someone is interested in them who lives interstate and needs help to save them, please get in touch with me as I will bend over backwards to help them.

Kelpiecuddles took a hugh chance on Impound 87 2 weeks ago and that has worked out so well with everyone being very happy - see KC post in Cat Chat along with photos. Transport can be sorted with a little time and I can temp care if necessary.

Edited to correct spelling mistakes!

The highlighted bit. Maybe not traumatised, but my place is certainly not a quite place.

I have read all the replies now, and I have not changed my stance. I still don't believe either of these girls would have done well in my home, and as harsh as it sounds, I do not have the time to put into these girls what they would need to have the potential to be affectionate, as you have stated.

Of course, any dog needs a proper introduction to the cats, and I did that. I had a 5 week old kitten here up until a few weeks ago that the dog mothered. She was a feral that my brother found on the side of the road. I took her in and tried to nurse her back to health, of course after a visit to my vet. Sadly, I think we got to her just too late, as the little munchkin passed away a few days later.

Whether the remarks are directed to me personally or not, and I truly do understand where you are coming from - you are passionate about what you do, and that is brilliant - just as much as you say to me to "read before I type" so to speak, for you to jump in and start about these kittens being taken above the other two girls without knowing the background or why, is just as unfair IMO.

I get where you are coming from about going interstate, and I nearly did through a Sydney rescue, as that is where I have fostered the last few dogs from, but then I saw these kittens and stayed local. Not everyone is in a position to save the more difficult animals, regardless of how much they want to.

And honestly, your last remark is just snide. They will stay here as long as they need to. If that means I adopt them, so be it.

The only money paid to the pound for these kittens was the $70 for the two microchips.

Edited April 26, 2014 by lokelani

[Staffyluv]

I only take on younger dogs because that is what fits best into my home..

I also only take on foster dogs when work is quiet and I have time to devote to their training and socialisation..

Do these decisions and choices make me a bad foster carer because I choose the pups I take on??

I don't think so - I learned a long time ago, that no matter how hard it is, we simply cannot save them all..

Until people learn to get their pets desexed and keep them at home, the issue of full pounds will never go away..

[Plan B]

So much judgment in "ethical" rescue.

Save what you can, when you can.

No animal is more or less deserving of a save. It can be old, young, blind, or a purebred worth a million bucks. If it needs to be saved, and you have saved it, feel good - and don't let anyone put you down for it.

The more we judge rescues, foster carers, and adopters, the less rescues, foster carers, and adopters we'll have.

But hey, gotta be "ethical," right?

[Staffyluv]

So much judgment in "ethical" rescue.

Save what you can, when you can.

No animal is more or less deserving of a save. It can be old, young, blind, or a purebred worth a million bucks. If it needs to be saved, and you have saved it, feel good - and don't let anyone put you down for it.

The more we judge rescues, foster carers, and adopters, the less rescues, foster carers, and adopters we'll have.

But hey, gotta be "ethical," right?

[lokelani]

So much judgment in "ethical" rescue.

Save what you can, when you can.

No animal is more or less deserving of a save. It can be old, young, blind, or a purebred worth a million bucks. If it needs to be saved, and you have saved it, feel good - and don't let anyone put you down for it.

The more we judge rescues, foster carers, and adopters, the less rescues, foster carers, and adopters we'll have.

But hey, gotta be "ethical," right?

Exactly. And I don't foster anywhere near as much as I would like to, but I will if I can. Maybe losing Gizmo so suddenly tugged at my heart strings a little, but these two are now safe, regardless.

[_PL_]

So much judgment in "ethical" rescue.

Save what you can, when you can.

No animal is more or less deserving of a save. It can be old, young, blind, or a purebred worth a million bucks. If it needs to be saved, and you have saved it, feel good - and don't let anyone put you down for it.

The more we judge rescues, foster carers, and adopters, the less rescues, foster carers, and adopters we'll have.

But hey, gotta be "ethical," right?

Darren I've known you to be just as vehemently 'judgemental'. Adoption fees, the use of breed names, fundraising and marketing etc etc. You have the right to an opinion just like everybody else. But literally everyone thinks they are ethical anyway so yes, you'll get judgement everywhere. It's in the eye of the beholder apparently.

Not everyone thinks that old dogs are worth the trouble but in my opinion they are. That's rescue.

Hypothetically (but not really because it actually happened). Just on the topic of litters. Cat vs dog.

What would you suggest to the rescuer who left behind a rather plain bullbreed/bullarab type female and took her babies, they used the same reasons carer/room/facilities/rehomeable. Mum was pts, pound was packed. Would you judge them?

I'm struggling to understand the difference when there's hundreds of orphan kittens needing rescue anyway so that carer's spot could be easily filled and just as many lives saved.

[Plan B]

Darren I've known you to be just as vehemently 'judgemental'. Adoption fees, the use of breed names, fundraising and marketing etc etc.

I don't really understand this.

You have the right to an opinion just like everybody else. But literally everyone thinks they are ethical anyway so yes, you'll get judgement everywhere. It's in the eye of the beholder apparently.

Not everyone thinks that old dogs are worth the trouble but in my opinion they are. That's rescue.

Judging foster carers and bemoaning them for saving lives is in the eye of the beholder? Come on.

There's a difference between having an opinion and using that opinion to pretty much bully people because they're not someone's idea of "ethical." I'm not saying that is happening right here in this thread but that absolutely happens in the 'rescue world.' A lot.

What would you suggest to the rescuer who left behind a rather plain bullbreed/bullarab type female and took her babies, they used the same reasons carer/room/facilities/rehomeable. Mum was pts, pound was packed. Would you judge them?

No. Not so long ago I would have. I've moved beyond that though and understand that the only one responsible for the death of that mother dog is the pound that kills her.

People don't have to rescue at all. I don't much care what their reasons for rescuing are - only that they are rescuing and hopefully doing it well. Other than that, it's none of my business.

[mirindan]

I for one will never forget the day I was witness to a "rescuer" jamm roughly 24 Kittens into the back of her car and left at least

5 Mothers behind at 4pm on kill day!

So, NO it is never ok, nor is it ethical to leave mothers behind, EVER no matter the circumstance.

It is also deplorable that there is a colour preference among a certain few.

[Staffyluv]

Some people judge breed specific rescues for only rescuing their preferred breed..

Just the fact that they are rescuing should be enough.. They shouldn't be judged badly because of it.

[Guest Wildthing]

Words on a computer screen can be and often are, misunderstood. My comments about wishing you luck were not written in a snide manner. Sorry you feel they were. I genuinely wish you luck, because I know from years of experience how bloody hard it is to home kittens at the end of the season. The market is saturated as everyone has got what they want already. That even applies to people who breed purebred cats.

I have no idea what other people deem to be ethical rescue, so perhaps someone would like to explain.

I have not said people should take animals they are not comfortable with. I am not comupter savvy enough to know how to get my comments on that from a previous post to this one, sorry for my inabiltiy if it offends anyone.

As far as I am concerned, the Queanbeyan pound have bent the rules for those kittens by not charging the extra money for taking them before their due date. Can't remember the exact amount, but it is around 60 something dollars. Why on earth could they therefore NOT BEND THE RULES for those 2 girls when I gave them the opportunity to do so??? There is no way in this world I will ever help Queanbeyan pound again and there is no way I will take any of the cats from the site these two girls are from either because a ranger has told me personally they do not like the cats from that site. That is telling me they don't give a damm about them and they (the cats)will not be helped. I could just as easily kill them at a vet myself without putting them through the trauma of being in the pound waiting to be adopted, possibly rescued or killed. I still have 5 kittens from that site. 2 of the boys have serious eye problems and there is no way they would ever have gone back to the pound to be dealt with. Once I have all the kittens from that site, I will be trapping the adults and dealing with them myself. They will not go to the pound under any cirmcumstances, despite the fact I had to complete a Stat Dec last year to cover the pound and to ensure I was not trapping neighbours cats in a vindictive manner. Bit of a laugh really when a ranger had trapped around 15 cats at the same site in May/June last year and just picked up(by bending over and picking it up with their hand) a very sick kitten who was released to me under Duty of Care.

Going interstate when there are local pounds who desperately need help is my gripe. Very few Sydney based rescuers help the local cats. It has happened, but not as much as locally based rescuers helping Sydney cats.

If you do not understand where I am coming from I am sorry. Please let me know and I will try and explain it in a different way.

Some cats do not cope in a pound situation just like some dogs do not. No one seems to make allowances for that. A typical example of that is the little black and white girl at QBN who is due on 6th May. I met her when she was admitted and then again last Wednesday. On her first meeting, she was a very affectionate girl, last meeting she was the opposite. I understand only too well not all the animals can be saved. Some should not be in my opinion, but other rescuers do save them. Their choice. Some rescuers are "Save at all costs" I am not and never have been. I have always done what I can, but my time has finished.

I suggest people do things because I cannot say to anyone you should do whatever. It is not my place to do that. I would be happy to meet people to have a face to face discussion if anyone is interested.

[keetamouse]

We take what we can and it MUST fit our own house and every one in it and that includes the humans and the animals, if it doesn't then unfortunately we have to leave them in the pounds, it is what it is and yes I feel for the cats and kittens.

[Guest Wildthing]

I understand that people take what fits and do not have a problem with that. What I am trying hard to say, but no one seems to understand is that QBN pound rangers bent the rules for those kittens to be released before their due date and not charging the extra fee. Why were they not able to do the same for those girls when I had given them the opportunity to do so????? That is bend the rules to save them. I asked, in an email, for the girls to be released to me without a chip and I would take them to the RSPCA. That was refused outright as not being possible. That is, in my opinion, a load or rubbish. It is possible and I know it has been done (released without a chip) with me before otherwise I would not have offered simply because I would not have known it could be done.

The heavily pregnant girl I took a few weeks ago was released tome without the extra fee being charged. Reason given was because she could not be sold. In that case, the queen gave birth 3 days after being released. If I had been required to wait to avoid the extra fee, she would have given birth in the pound.

Rules can be, have been and always will be bent.

[keetamouse]

I have not read all of the replies, but I just wanted to say that I am the foster carer that took the 9 week old kittens. I actually approached a rescue group for assistance as I knew it would be easier to get them out through a rescue than as a private resident. So it was actually my choice, not the rescue itself as to who got saved that day and who didn't - just wanted to clear that up.

I don't feel like I need to explain my reasons for taking these two as opposed to the older ones, but I will.

In the original rescue thread, it said that these girls were a bit shy and timid, and BOTH would probably need a quite home to go to. That is not my place. I have a dog who lives inside, and he just wants to play with the cats and dogs that come through here. For two traumatised young cats, that is not a good situation to put them in.

Secondly, kittens suit me and my lifestyle better - they are a lot more adaptable, and they are also easier to keep. I honestly don't have the time to work with cats that need work, but with the kittens, just a few days of handling and some toys to play with, and they are running the place. They even put the dog in his place. These two other girls would not have coped with him, so would that be fair, for them to live in a house that would scare the s*** out of them, and for them to live a sorry existence, just so they were not PTS? In my personal opinion, no, but that's just me.

And as far as I am aware, these kittens were on their own, their mum was not there. I probably would have taken her in too if she was.

CPR are the rescue who now have lokelani on board as everyone knows we don't as a rule do cats but was approached by lokelani as she could not have 2 dogs at her place, it is entirely up to her what she takes, I did ask about the other 2 older kittens and was told that the grey one was not well and the time had passed for the other, and that she preferred the kittens, her choice and is the best for her situation, I know it is extremely frustrating for some people when their preferences are different to others but we do have to accept their decisions.

I feel for Brenda as she is the saver of hundreds of cats and kittens and has tried to retire many times but just doesn't quite make it but we are all different and we all know that, but, as hard as it is we do need to focus on what we can and can't take.

Maree

CPR

[keetamouse]

We all seem to be posting at the same time so no need to respond to my last post you responded in your last one, I think Brenda it has all been said.

I understand your frustration and sympathise with what has happened to you over many years and hopefully we can save at least some in the future.

Maree

CPR

[Guest Wildthing]

The ranger told me she was concerned for the health of the grey girl. That is yet another reason for the cat to have been released to me. I did not have $70 cover the chip fees and really do not have space for more and more felines when adoptions have been non existant for months. Haven't even had any enquiries about kittens which I usually get regardless of whether I have any listed or not.

I have been out tonight to collect and bring home the last 2 kittens from a trapping job in Narrabundah. This job has taken my friend and I a few weeks to complete. Mum has been trapped, desexed, vaccinated and chipped and released back on site. This is a first in 19 years for me and I can't tell you happy that made me that she did not have to be killed. One of the kittens has gone to a staff member from the motel (trapping site) The motel are happy to keep feeding mum. Must say, she gets fed better quality meat than I eat myself! There are 4 kittens here now that I have to deal with.

Those felines from the site in QBN that my friend and I will be trapping next week will not go anywhere near QBN pound given the events of last week. That is like signing a Death Certificate.

I feel for the black and white juvenile who is currently at the pound and not coping. I would be absolutely stunned, but overjoyed, if she was adopted, let alone got rescue. However, there are ways to deal with things and over the years I have learnt how to find a way around most situations. Psychiatric nursing taught me heaps. Frankly, I would rather deal with people who have a mental illness than so called normal people.

I stand by my comments on several occassions, I will no longer help QBN pound.

[melzawelza]

I don't understand why you are trapping community cats and taking them to the pound if you are simultaneously upset about cats being killed in the pound? Why wouldn't you neuter them and put them back?

[Guest Wildthing]

I don't understand why you are trapping community cats and taking them to the pound if you are simultaneously upset about cats being killed in the pound? Why wouldn't you neuter them and put them back?

In the ACT and surrounding areas, cats are almost deemed as vermin and there are many many cat haters out there who will do things to felines such as setting their dogs on them to kill them because they think it is macho and funny, plus other things.

I am a single person doing my best for the local felines and have been for 19 years. My income is a government pension - just gone up to around $840 per fortnight. I have to pay for everything from that money, including survive myself. I cannot afford to neuter and return every cat that I am involved in the trapping of. You also need to rely on someone feeding them and that just does not happen in this area of Australia. Sydney has volunteers who do that, so vastly different from here. I am currently working with a colony of suburban wilds who have had someone feeding them for years. That has resulted in a large number of cats due to the regular food supply. Rangers trapped around 15 adult cats from that site in June 2013 and I took the only kitten under Duty of Care as she was not expected to survive. She did and is now a very healthy adult, but she lives here with me because she is domesticated. All the adults were killed. Consequently, the remaining felines at that site bred heavily to replace those cats that disappeared and more just to make sure of the survival of the colony. The owner of the property has complained to the Head Office of the company who are renting the premises (industrial) about the cats on an OH&S basis. As a result, we have 2 weeks to trap and deal with every cat on that site - possibly 15 adults and 3 or 4 kittens. The vet bill to neuter all those is way beyond my income and the cats are not wanted back on the site either. In my opinion, you cannot TNR and release them to another site where they have no idea where to source food from or to find shelter. At the other site (in the ACT) the mum cat was pregnant for the third time this season. She is the first TNR I have had the pleasure of dealing with in 19 years. The motel paid for her vet work and she is chipped in the motel owners name.

The two girls who were killed from the pound were from the industrial site and I had spent a lot of time and effort into domesticating and treating the ringworm before working with the pound as to when they could go there for selling (not killing) Consequently, they were older than I would have liked them to be and not so 'cute' which made them harder to sell. It is my firm belief the rangers never did anything to help those girls settle in a stressful situation like they did for another male cat who was there at the same time. One ranger has told me that they do not like the cats from the site those girls were from. That is tantamount to saying they will be killed regardless as far as I am concerned. I gave a ranger the opportunity to release those 2 girls to me and I would take them to the RSPCA. That was refused outright - could not be done. However, rules were bent to allow rescue to take kittens before their due date without the extra fee being paid. Why on earth the rules could not have been bent to save those girls is way beyond my powers of understanding and rationalisation. I am not complaining about rules being bent, but if you do it for one then you do it for others as far as I am concerned. It should be an even playing field. There was an opportunity for those girls to be saved and a ranger refused. I could spell it out how the books could have been filled in, but given I do not wish to tell you something I suspect you might already know (I suspect you are a ranger from reading many many of your posts)I will refrain. However, I am trying to make a point it was an unnecessary killing when there was an opportunity to save them. I was not told the grey girl had a cough until it was too late. The rangers know only too well I bend over backwards to help all the cats at the pound, yet they were not prepared to do the same for me when I tried desperately to save those girls. As a result, none of the cats that are going to be trapped on the industrial site in QBN will go to the pound because they will not be given a chance at settling. I do no expect many of them to survive, but I would like to know they have been given a chance. Those two girls had a death sentence the moment I took them to the pound. Had I been aware of that, I would never in a million years taken them there. It would have been kinder to kill them the same day I trapped them. Kinder not just to the cats, but also to me. Someone went into the pound while the girls were there and met them. That person said they were nice friendly cats. What on earth happened to them that they were not allowed to be released to me to deal with them?

I am not part of a group and am not a registered charity or incorporated organisation so cannot legally ask for monetary donations to help me in my work. I do wonders with my pension, but unfortunately, I cannot work miracles with the money. The only positive outcome from this terrible situation is that my retirement is finally here and I can look forward to getting the hell out of this bloody awful place that is the nations capital.

I hope you understand the situation better now, but it is hard to put into words for a computer screen where the words can be unintentionally misunderstood - I know what I mean so re reading will not necessarily tell me where I could word things better for someone else to understand what I am trying hard to say.

I am upset that there was an opportunity to save those girls and a ranger refused. The very same ranger then bent the rules to allow kittens to be released with out the extra fee being charged. Favouritism towards the felines (not the rescue) What you do for one yo do for others, in my opinion.

If you have read the QBN thread over the last few weeks, you will have seen what I managed to achieve for the cats at the pound. That included finding a home for a cat I did not like and then temp cared for about a week until she went to her home. It was a cat who needed a home and I found it one. I also was lucky to have someone want to give a home to a young female cat who had not coped in the pound and temp cared her for a week before she went to her new home. Unfortunately, I had run out of possible homes for those two girls and I had not had any enquiries for adoptions for months. The rangers were only too please to take my help on those occassions, but they sure as hell were not prepared to help me when I was trying to save two more cats. That has cost them my support.

[WreckitWhippet]

I take dogs from where and when I please. I have no limits with regards to age but they must be Whippets not crosses. I will take dogs from pounds and private surrender, I prefer to prevent dogs from actually reaching the pound system.

Rescuers are free to rescue as they see fit when it comes to location and the age of animals they will or won't take. Temperament should be of the upmost consideration.

[trifecta]

Wildthing, exactly how many cats do you currently have available for adoption?