How Do You Decide?

[Loreley]

Hi All

I have been in and around rescue for quite a while but generally in the background. The decision of where to take from with the group I work with for dogs is pretty simple as we are a breed based rescue group.

I was wondering how other more general rescue groups work. There is obviously a great network happening, particularly with the outback pounds which is wonderful to see and the big pounds in Sydney also. What happens to the smaller pounds? Do you look to your local pounds first? Do you always go with existing networks for say the more rural places or high turn over pounds as a preference? Its such a complex area and so many options, where do you start?

Since migrating into the cat rescue area, I have found this even more puzzling. I'm not saying anyone or any group is right or wrong but the situation at Queanbeyan Pound is one that I sincerely struggle with. Why were there no rescue options for those 2 beautiful girls at barely 6 months old when 9 week old kittens are snapped up? Yes food costs are smaller and a lot of people initially go for the cute little ones but my experience so far has been that its these in betweens that are the ones that do rehome just as easily as the little uns.

There is a stunning 12 week old girl at Queanbeyan now, is she now classed as too old to rehome at this young age?

I would be eager to hear your thoughts on the hows and whys. You guys know your markets better than I do, so would appreciate some help getting my head around this whole situation please

Edited April 24, 2014 by Loreley

[kelpiecuddles]

Wildthing can maybe give you an idea of what is going on at Queanbeyen. I think they've been trapping a fair few suburban wilds over there at the moment so I guess in that case at 9 weeks they are still at an age where there is a reasonable chance of taming them but if they are semi-feral at 6 months it's going to be a lot harder. I'm not sure if the girl I took is one of the nearly six months olds you were referring to but she was pretty flighty when she first arrived, still flinches now if you move too fast around her and i can imagine would have presented very poorly in a pound environment. I don't mind giving her time to settle but when there are so many cats needing help and very few places I guess it makes sense to take the ones that are going to be easiest to move quickly so that you can reopen spaces for other needy cats.

Edited April 24, 2014 by kelpiecuddles

[*kirty*]

In my experience, people want kittens. The younger the better. Mine don't leave until 10-12 weeks but I was forever getting requests for 6-8 week old kittens! It is the frustration of cat rescuers everywhere! People think that kittens settle better, bond better, etc. Which of course is crap.

[Loreley]

Wildthing can maybe give you an idea of what is going on at Queanbeyen. I think they've been trapping a fair few suburban wilds over there at the moment so I guess in that case at 9 weeks they are still at an age where there is a reasonable chance of taming them but if they are semi-feral at 6 months it's going to be a lot harder. I'm not sure if the girl I took is one of the nearly six months olds you were referring to but she was pretty flighty when she first arrived, still flinches now if you move too fast around her and i can imagine would have presented very poorly in a pound environment. I don't mind giving her time to settle but when there are so many cats needing help and very few places I guess it makes sense to take the ones that are going to be easiest to move quickly so that you can reopen spaces for other needy cats.

Wildthing has been involved with trapping and a lot have come in which is why she could not take the 2 x 6 month old girls from the pound and they were pts yesterday. What I am asking is why they were overlooked by rescues but 9 week olds came in which were snapped up rescue which by all accounts would have easily sold from the pound given what people are saying that the little ones are easy to move. What is the point of taking animals that are going to easily move even at the pound? Wouldn't it be better to take the older kittens, yes might take a bit longer to move but effectively by doing that you would be saving both the older kittens and the young ones by that act.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Loreley

[kelpiecuddles]

Surely it would make more sense for them to stay at the pound until close to their PTS day and then go to rescue if not adopted from pound.

[Dame Aussie]

IME people want kittens, the younger the better. I am constantly telling people 5 weeks old is too young

[Dame Aussie]

Snap kirty, I hadn't seen your post but that's exactly my experience too. 3 months is old apparently

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

One of my carers is in a difficult situation having rescued a mother cat and 3 older kittens. Our kind vet took the two kittens although they are older than 3 months but the mother and father cat (who are also most likely to be mother and son which is ghastly) are residing in my carer's garden.

They are around 1 yr and 9 months, a kind cat rescue paid for their vetwork and was going to take the female but has since been inundated and has no room.

Both cats are nervous so getting a photo is proving very difficult. She can't keep them, they attack the dogs if they go outside in the part of the garden they are in which means the dogs' quality of life is really compromised.

I have said she needs to face the prospect that they aren't very rehomable as they aren't sociable with people and no one will want an antisocial cat ....

It's bloody tough for cat rescues and cats and kittens, simply not enough homes.

[Guest Wildthing]

3 9 week old kittens due date is 28 April

2 6 month old kittens due date 22 April

3 kittens have a rescue name if not sold while the older kittens are left to die - why when there was a foster carer prepared to take the kittens? Kittens are kittens until they reach 12 months old. I sell more adult cats than kittens.

I am doing ALL the trapping at the site in Queanbeyan, the pound have nothing to do with it. In fact, a ranger has told me they do not like the felines that come from that site. That is the exact site the 2 girls were from. Therefore, in my opinion, they never stood a chance as far as the rangers were concerned. In fact, when I went into the pound to see if they had gone to the RSPCA (ranger emailed me in the morning saying they would phone, but never did), the Supervisor of Rangers said the girls were wild! No idea where they got that idea from as no handling done by that person. The ginger and white girl had been in foster care until the carer was admitted to hospital unexpectedly and had been a lap cat. The potential was there, but in my opinion, none of the rangers gave a damm. Due to these events, none of the felines I trap at the same site will go anywhere near Queanbeyan pound. I am no longer helping save cats from QBN pound either - helping works two ways as far as I am concerned, but in this case it was all one way. I offered a way to manage the system because I did not have the space or money to pay $70 for the chips. That was refused outright.

Kelpiecuddles, your Pepper was dumped in a bird cage along with her heavily pregnant mother at the corner of the admin building at the pound one Friday morning. Pepper did not cope in the pound and it took several days for a ranger to actually catch her once she had been put in a pen. I do not think any rangers made any attempt to assist her either. Just because I realised her potential going on her mothers temperament, I busted my boiler to help her. You were the miracle I had hoped for and so again, I bent over backwards to save her. I cannot do everything on my own, I need input and positive assistance from rangers and other locally based rescuers. A local rescue group have put their name on 6 kittens at a pound that is a 3 hour drive from Canberra and allowed these two girls to die. That does not impress me one little bit. The arrangement I had with a ranger for the pregnant mum was I would deal with her and the kittens would go back to the pound for selling. There is no way on this earth they will go anywhere near the pound now. I will just have to deal with them myself. I can never trust any rangers there again. To me, it is a very sad situation for the cats, but I have been helping the pound since 2001 and I had to pay full price for the felines I took from there. That continued until about 4 years ago when I was granted Recognised Rescuer status. I do not have and will never get, a Clause 16d.

I have taken from Sydney pounds in the past when there was nothing locally to help. My priority has always been the locals first and others after that. It is obvious to me, that is not the way other rescuers work.

From the site in Queanbeyan that I am trapping on, I have had 15 kittens out so far with another 3 or 4 to come before we deal with adults. 2 of the boys have come to me with terrible eye problems due to a herpes infection. One boy had his eye removed 9 days ago. The cost for the vet bills has been around $1,000.00 so far. I have had help from *kirty* for these boys and I will be eternally grateful for it as it made a tremendous difference to how they healed and their prospects with their eyes. In fact, due to that help, I believe we have been able to save one eye in one of the boys and he may not even need surgery to correct the Entropian.

I am on a government pension of around $840 per fortnight, so funds are extremely limited. I am an individual who pays for everything from that pension and of course, I have to run my entire household on that income. I manage and do not complain, but in my endeavours to help felines of any age, I need assistance from other people. I actually took an older Oriental boy from the pound in January because he could not be sold due to his renal failure. He is at least 10 years old. Vet examination in February told me he had weeks, not months to live. That was over 2 months ago and he is doing really well. I do not discriminate on an age based issue. All the cats deserve to be given as much help by everyone. They rely on that for a chance at a good life after their pound time.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel I needed to put this down to try and make the issue of where a rescue individual or groups priorities lies for taking animals in need.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Wildthing

[kelpiecuddles]

Very sad that they aren't giving older kittens and cats much of a chance there Wildthing . I can imagine Pep wouldn't have coped well at all in there given how long it took her to settle here. What a shame they aren't being more helpful to the people who are prepared to put the time in to help their animals!

[Loreley]

Very sad that they aren't giving older kittens and cats much of a chance there Wildthing . I can imagine Pep wouldn't have coped well at all in there given how long it took her to settle here. What a shame they aren't being more helpful to the people who are prepared to put the time in to help their animals!

and sadder still when local rescue groups don't check their own backyard before putting their hand up for kittens further away.

[_PL_]

Cat rescue is so hard. But seeing the 'pretty' kittens picked out of litters leaving mum and the plain ones left behind does my head in. If dog rescuers did that they'd be hung, the excuse of numbers and only taking the ones seen as easily rehomeable is common justification.

Sorry if I'm offending anyone (cat rescue is bloody hard) but leaving half a family to die doesn't sit right with me.

edit-spelling

Edited April 26, 2014 by Powerlegs

[Guest Wildthing]

I have been in cat rescue for 19 long bloody hard years. It has always been my policy if you take kittens and there is a mum, you take her as well. Once I even took the mum while another rescue took the kittens just to save mum. that rescue only wanted kittens at the time.

I have been wondering what was said, if anything, about the girls to any possible adopters or rescuers by rangers because they did not like felines from that site. I do know that a locally based rescue group had phoned the pound about the girls, but they did not take them. They did, however, take two fairly wild kittens several weeks ago and posted they had the scratches to prove it. The cat orientated ranger had been trying for weeks to settle and domesticate those kittens and was about to euthanase them. I had no problems with that and still do not. If that ranger was not able to work their usual magic on wild kittens, then it will be a very long time, if ever, that those kittens can be deemed suitable for selling. They certainly will not be kittens when that happens! In the meantime, felines of any age are missing out because they are taking the space that other easily rehomeable felines could have. There has to be some discrimination involved when it comes to wild animals of any species. I did not put my hand up for those ones because I realised they would be a long term prospect. I also knew I would be gettin enough suburban wild kittens in to last me the entire season (trapping) I assess every cat on its own merits and act accordingly.

I realise some people have preferences as to what they take age wise in cat rescue, but I do not understand that. They are all felines and need help.

Powerlegs, I know you frequently take older dogs and that has always been a wonderful thing from my perspective.

I am aware of a 'rescue' taking what looked like a Purebred type kitten (pretty) and leaving the other kittens and mum behind at a shelter. That kind of behaviour does my head in as well. I certainly would not recommend them to anyone wanting to adopt.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I think the only policy to operate with - given the phenomenal numbers of deaths - would be to leave all feral cats and kittens behind. Tough decisions have to be made, rescue shouldn't be based on looks alone and I believe you take the mother and kittens as a group rather than picking the prettiest of leaving the rest to their fate ...

[melzawelza]

What if your available carer/s can only take kittens? Is it better to save the kittens and leave mum, no matter how devastating that is, or to leave the whole lot to be euthanased rather than be judged by other rescuers?

[kelpiecuddles]

I agree dogmad. I can't imagine that if dog rescue people refused to take a dog that lashed out and bit anyone who came near it they would be judged poorly. I know a local lady hear who rescues and often takes on ones that others won't and she has a couple of cats living in cat runs that she's had for a very long time and they are basically feral. In my mind that's really no life for a cat, it's just an existence. If you have a cat in the house it gets enrichment from it's interactions with it's family and has the house to run in, kept in a large aviary and without the enrichment of either being in a house or being in the wild where it came from seems so sad to me.

[lokelani]

I have not read all of the replies, but I just wanted to say that I am the foster carer that took the 9 week old kittens. I actually approached a rescue group for assistance as I knew it would be easier to get them out through a rescue than as a private resident. So it was actually my choice, not the rescue itself as to who got saved that day and who didn't - just wanted to clear that up.

I don't feel like I need to explain my reasons for taking these two as opposed to the older ones, but I will.

In the original rescue thread, it said that these girls were a bit shy and timid, and BOTH would probably need a quite home to go to. That is not my place. I have a dog who lives inside, and he just wants to play with the cats and dogs that come through here. For two traumatised young cats, that is not a good situation to put them in.

Secondly, kittens suit me and my lifestyle better - they are a lot more adaptable, and they are also easier to keep. I honestly don't have the time to work with cats that need work, but with the kittens, just a few days of handling and some toys to play with, and they are running the place. They even put the dog in his place. These two other girls would not have coped with him, so would that be fair, for them to live in a house that would scare the s*** out of them, and for them to live a sorry existence, just so they were not PTS? In my personal opinion, no, but that's just me.

And as far as I am aware, these kittens were on their own, their mum was not there. I probably would have taken her in too if she was.

[Guest Wildthing]

The comments are not directed at you personally. However, no one asked me for more details on those two girls, but I did post something on the thread that the ginger and white girl would make a wonderful lap cat. My suggestion to you would be to read all the responses on this topic as it might make a difference.

No feline going into a home where there is a dog/s who has not been exposed to one before would cope easily. If they are properly introduced to each other, it should work well. I have done it myself on numerous occassions. Neither of those girls were traumatised and I do not know why you think they were. My suggestion would be to ask more questions before making a decision based on what is written on a thread. Dog rescuers often do it - "temp notes would be nice", or words to that effect.

I was aware of you emailing what you believed were rescue groups in the region as the email was forwarded to me. I then in turn contacted the group you had fostered through before as I thought it appropriate under the circumstances.

What you take is your business and if you read one of my posts, you will see that. What I am saying is that I believe people should take from their local pound before they go to one that is a 3 hour drive away. The pound were also given a way around the situation, but they refused to do that, instead killing needlessly, in my opinion. I received an email from a ranger saying they would phone the RSPCA themselves later that day. That never happened and the girls were taken to the vet in the morning. If I had known that would happen I would have done something to save them. I did check with the vet after I learnt the girls had gone there in the morning, just in case they were still alive. Sadly, they were not. I was also informed by a ranger that they do not like the felines from the site those two girls came from. That tells me no effort was put into helping save them. However, the ranger did ask someone to do a poster for another cat that was not coping in the pound, but not the girls. Why not, they are all deserving?

I have been helping QBN pound since 2001, but no longer. Helping works two ways in my book and I am not prepared to work on a one way system. Sadly, more cats will probably get killed as a result, but I have had enough of bending over backwards to help and it not being reciprocated. I actually feel as though I have been relied on to home every feline that goes in to he pound.

If you have taken the kittens already, that will have cost more than waiting until their due date. That is why I do not do it. I do not have the funds to waste.

I wish you luck in trying to find homes for them at the end of the kitten season when the market is saturated.

[Guest Wildthing]

I agree dogmad. I can't imagine that if dog rescue people refused to take a dog that lashed out and bit anyone who came near it they would be judged poorly. I know a local lady hear who rescues and often takes on ones that others won't and she has a couple of cats living in cat runs that she's had for a very long time and they are basically feral. In my mind that's really no life for a cat, it's just an existence. If you have a cat in the house it gets enrichment from it's interactions with it's family and has the house to run in, kept in a large aviary and without the enrichment of either being in a house or being in the wild where it came from seems so sad to me.

Totally agree,(bolded part) the cats would be far better of being given their wings. However, some people in rescue have the thinking "save at all costs" I do not and never have.

[Guest Wildthing]

What if your available carer/s can only take kittens? Is it better to save the kittens and leave mum, no matter how devastating that is, or to leave the whole lot to be euthanased rather than be judged by other rescuers?

I would suggest the person works extremely hard at finding a rescue who would take the mum. I have done it to save kittens as well as mum. Not easy, but things can be achieved sometimes if you just ask. I realise it would not work with every mum and litter.

What happens if there is a mum and puppies in a pound in the same situation? How many rescuers would leave mum behind?