Sue & Waldo Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Banned dog laws costing councils Posted by: 3AW News | 21 April, 2014 - 9:27 AMThe state’s restricted dog breed laws have been described as a "dogs breakfast" by Monash mayor Geoff Lake. Councils have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars defending court cases brought by dog owners challenging the laws. Monash council has spent almost $100,000 on court challenges over a single dog which it declared a pit bull in 2012. Cr Lake told 3AW Breakfast the laws were clumsy, unscientific and subjective. "It's unsatisfactory from a council point of view, dog owners are being denied fundamental justice and fairness and it leaves the community exposed because it's not working," he said. “It involves council officers who aren’t experienced breed identifiers. “They’ve (only) had a few hours training, having to go through and make a number of measurements from different points of the dogs. “And time and time again the courts are saying that dogs that councils say meet the test don’t actually meet the test.” LISTEN: Monash mayor Geoff Lake says the laws are a dogs breakfast Meanwhile RSPCA Victoria chief executive Maria Mercurio agreed. She said the laws did not achieve anything. “It’s a bad law, it doesn’t accomplish the purpose that it’s set out to accomplish, so it accomplishes nothing” she told Brett McLeod. “It costs tens of thousands of dollars and often results in very nice animals being (killed) for no particular reason except they don’t look right.” Ms Mercurio maintained no breeds were more dangerous than others. "It depends on whether or not the dog is well trained, well socialised, is it the right dog for that particular family, is it desexed, is it properly contained on the owner’s property," she said. "There is a whole list of criteria that you have to apply before you get to the point of saying ‘that dog needs to be destroyed’. “I can send you some information about statistics worldwide for a number of breeds … and pit bulls don’t feature any more prominently than other breeds." LISTEN: RSPCA's Maria Mercurio says any dog is capable of attacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Good on him, at least he can see the laws are useless! Hopefully the feeling will spread and change will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No one has forced the council into going to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I wouldn't be too quick to praise him, he still thinks breed based laws are the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 "It depends on whether or not the dog is well trained, well socialised, is it the right dog for that particular family, is it desexed, is it properly contained on the owner’s property," she said. Possibly one of the most sensible statement I have read. Hopefully it will help bring about change as I do not believe things can continue the way they have been... public less safe than before and the morons still running around with dogs they don't raise properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 If councils are finding the BSL such a problem I am wondering if they can introduce mandatory dog training up to an advanced stage as a requirement for 'Bull' type dogs. I know that some owners are not going to train their dog let alone register it but for the people who love these dogs it would give them a chance to own one legally. It would surely be better than having dogs killed because of their appearance as well as preventing heart-ache to their families. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I wouldn't be too quick to praise him, he still thinks breed based laws are the answer. Call me a cynic, but I agree with ruthless... This fellow probably wants the laws changed so that there can be no challenge to the declarations... thus meaning less cost to council... Isn't Monash one of the council areas that took to the new legislation VERY enthusiastically? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoTree Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'd say it's mostly to do with eating into the animal management and control budget to much rather than rainbow feelings for it's residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 They dont have to introduce mandatory laws on ANYTHING - All they have ever needed to do is police the laws we already have and be pro active about prevention than they have been. They introduce these bull shit laws because they cant trust people to follow the laws which keep animals contained and under control etc - so just in case we all just let our dogs run wild and bite people and other animals they keep bringing in new laws so that if we do they are in their opinion less likely to do any real damage. The idiots that don't follow the old laws don't follow the new laws anyway. Why dont rangers do house knocks checking that dogs are chiopped and registered and hand out fines if they are not - why dont councils check that the dogs which are on properties are not only chipped and registered but also adequately controlled etc? Why are people still able to let their dogs run around the neighbourhood off leash without fines being hit on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 As we always knew, the rights of people and needs of dogs don't matter to any level of govt, but bleeding money does. If it's not making the council money they don't like it and only then will they think about not doing it. Councils do not give a flying eff about their constituents. If they did the money would be spent on education and enforcement just like Steve has said. BSL has never been about safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Dog owners pay rates just like everyone else - we also pay extra fees for our dogs - yet we get really nothing back from council for this. Councils subsides many community/family needs If you have children they subsidise; infant welfare clinics, kindergartens, after school programs If you are elderly they subsidise; community buses and activities If you are into sport they subsides; ovals, netball courts, basketball stadiums etc. If you are more into studious pursuits they subsidise; libraries, art festivals but if your a dog owner : you are treated as second class - even now the councils no longer provide an annual tag for your dog - if you loose it you have to pay for another - now they state you have to have it on your dog when in public even if the dog is onleash.... Consider the following # that the average family would use the child facilities for perhaps 5-6 years and then no longer. # that the average family 'might' use the elderly facilities for perhaps 5-10 years and then either into a home care or pass away. # that the average family could expect to use the sporting facilities for perhaps 10 years before the kids grow out of junior sport and perhaps 5 years of seniors # that the average family may use the library however with the internet this is greatly reduce any need and festivals might occur once or twice a year. However, in our Shire it is likely that at least 30-50% of households would own a dog - people are also likely to own their own dog from perhaps 21yo until they are shunted off to the nursing home..... perhaps 50-60 years of dog ownership and the councils do little if anything to support.... plus we are paying extra 'RATES' for this. My registration this year (Mitchell Shire) was $164 for my dogs (VCA member) and our council doesn't even provide any off leash area - they have started a pet expo one day a year which I discovered they were given a grant from state government for so this is not even paid out of rates.... The Rangers are quick to give people a hard time even if they are doing the right thing - instead could be door knocking and catching the people who don't register their dogs, who don't have adequate fencing to contain their dogs and policing the new policy to catch the bybers and puppy mills - of which there are many.... just walk into some of the shops and see the posters stuck up selling pups. Groups like VCA, RSPCA, and even the welfare groups should be encouraging greater acceptance for Pet Owners instead of creating more and more laws to hinder - Its time for Government (in all levels) to give back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 but if your a dog owner : you are treated as second class - even now the councils no longer provide an annual tag for your dog - if you loose it you have to pay for another - now they state you have to have it on your dog when in public even if the dog is onleash.... I've always had to pay for a replacement tag and the dogs have always had to wear their rego tag when off their own property. And this has been wherever I have lived in Victoria for over 35 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Dog owners pay rates just like everyone else - we also pay extra fees for our dogs - yet we get really nothing back from council for this. Councils subsides many community/family needs If you have children they subsidise; infant welfare clinics, kindergartens, after school programs If you are elderly they subsidise; community buses and activities If you are into sport they subsides; ovals, netball courts, basketball stadiums etc. If you are more into studious pursuits they subsidise; libraries, art festivals but if your a dog owner : you are treated as second class - even now the councils no longer provide an annual tag for your dog - if you loose it you have to pay for another - now they state you have to have it on your dog when in public even if the dog is onleash.... Consider the following # that the average family would use the child facilities for perhaps 5-6 years and then no longer. # that the average family 'might' use the elderly facilities for perhaps 5-10 years and then either into a home care or pass away. # that the average family could expect to use the sporting facilities for perhaps 10 years before the kids grow out of junior sport and perhaps 5 years of seniors # that the average family may use the library however with the internet this is greatly reduce any need and festivals might occur once or twice a year. However, in our Shire it is likely that at least 30-50% of households would own a dog - people are also likely to own their own dog from perhaps 21yo until they are shunted off to the nursing home..... perhaps 50-60 years of dog ownership and the councils do little if anything to support.... plus we are paying extra 'RATES' for this. My registration this year (Mitchell Shire) was $164 for my dogs (VCA member) and our council doesn't even provide any off leash area - they have started a pet expo one day a year which I discovered they were given a grant from state government for so this is not even paid out of rates.... The Rangers are quick to give people a hard time even if they are doing the right thing - instead could be door knocking and catching the people who don't register their dogs, who don't have adequate fencing to contain their dogs and policing the new policy to catch the bybers and puppy mills - of which there are many.... just walk into some of the shops and see the posters stuck up selling pups. Groups like VCA, RSPCA, and even the welfare groups should be encouraging greater acceptance for Pet Owners instead of creating more and more laws to hinder - Its time for Government (in all levels) to give back.... So true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Our local council doesn't even supply rego tags anymore.. When I lifetime rego'd Zig, I asked about the tag and was told - we don't do that anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Our local council doesn't even supply rego tags anymore.. When I lifetime rego'd Zig, I asked about the tag and was told - we don't do that anymore! Yes we have the same on the Central Coast and has been like that for quite a few years. I have had my greys for 4 years this year and they have never had a rego tag, both lifetime registered. I can only speak for one of the worst councils in NSW (Gosford) but rangers here would much rather hang down at the beach and give parking tickets, much easier for them but still getting their quota. When they put new parking restrictions down at the local boatramp the ranger was there in all his pathetic glory waiting for that random car that parked in the "boat only" area. Meanwhile there are dogs running and crapping all over the oval right in front of them but pfft...much easier to slip a ticket under the windscreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) I saw the lovely Ruby out walking who was nearly in trouble a few weeks ago. A lovely friendly dog and one block down had to run the gamut of our local irresponsible dog owners aggressive kelpie. Everyone in the neighborhood has complained, I've appealed directly to the owners because she hunts ducklings on my property only to be told they don't bother putting fences up because she would just jump over. Why is it not law that if you own a dog you must have fences? It's okay to keep an aggressive dog next to a bush reserve with no fences but not okay to own a friendly dog who happens to possibly look a certain way. Glad my taxes are going to such good use. Edited April 22, 2014 by hankdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielleheather Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't really believe in dog training school. If you're going to get a dog, research the type to suit you and your house, if unsure about how to train the dog you're getting, Google. I train all of my dogs and that's the way it should be. You wouldn't let some stranger raise your children their way instead of yours would you? Pits aren't the kinds of dogs you want someone else training; if you aren't a dominant person, don't get a power-breed and save the rest of us having to fight against the idiots who buy and neglect their dogs until they're restless enough to get dominant over you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't really believe in dog training school. If you're going to get a dog, research the type to suit you and your house, if unsure about how to train the dog you're getting, Google. I train all of my dogs and that's the way it should be. You wouldn't let some stranger raise your children their way instead of yours would you? Pits aren't the kinds of dogs you want someone else training; if you aren't a dominant person, don't get a power-breed and save the rest of us having to fight against the idiots who buy and neglect their dogs until they're restless enough to get dominant over you. Experienced reputable dog trainers know more about dog training than the average person. My Rottweiler and I had one on one training lessons with a brilliant trainer. I doubt my dog would have responded instantly to my commands had we not learned everything together. I wouldn't rely on Google to teach me this. We send our children to school to learn, so yes we do rely on strangers to teach our children. We don't rely on Google. Dog training has nothing to do with whether or not you're a dominant person. It's about knowing how to train and working with your dog. I don't know how to respond to your ^ bolded comment, words fail me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielleheather Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) I don't really believe in dog training school. If you're going to get a dog, research the type to suit you and your house, if unsure about how to train the dog you're getting, Google. I train all of my dogs and that's the way it should be. You wouldn't let some stranger raise your children their way instead of yours would you? Pits aren't the kinds of dogs you want someone else training; if you aren't a dominant person, don't get a power-breed and save the rest of us having to fight against the idiots who buy and neglect their dogs until they're restless enough to get dominant over you. Experienced reputable dog trainers know more about dog training than the average person. My Rottweiler and I had one on one training lessons with a brilliant trainer. I doubt my dog would have responded instantly to my commands had we not learned everything together. I wouldn't rely on Google to teach me this. We send our children to school to learn, so yes we do rely on strangers to teach our children. We don't rely on Google. Dog training has nothing to do with whether or not you're a dominant person. It's about knowing how to train and working with your dog. I don't know how to respond to your ^ bolded comment, words fail me. I wouldn't rely on Google either, if that's what you're implying however to see how others have done it if you don't have friends with Pits who else do you ask, hmm? It doesn't hurt to look up tips and tricks for those who've never worked with dogs in that way before. I was raised around Pits and Rotti's and Boxer's German Shepards etc I've seen how to train them and what ways work best. It's my opinion that I've gotten from personal experience so if words fail you then I'm sorry but it's not my fault. I don't use trainers no matter how reputable they might be because my dog's will learn from me and I'll work on commands until they get it right or until I do. Have you worked a lot with these kinds of dogs up close? And when I said specifically "a stranger raise your children" in no way did I mean school. There are a lot of things school can't or flat out won't teach - RAISE not EDUCATE. How does training a dog work if you're stammering and nervous and acting like you're afraid of it? Sorry for voicing my opinion but it's what I know and it's not let me down once. Edited June 12, 2014 by danielleheather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) I was raised around Pits and Rotti's and Boxer's German Shepards etc I've seen how to train them and what ways work best. It's my opinion that I've gotten from personal experience so if words fail you then I'm sorry but it's not my fault. I don't use trainers no matter how reputable they might be because my dog's will learn from me and I'll work on commands until they get it right or until I do. Have you worked a lot with these kinds of dogs up close? Most dog trainers don't focus on training dogs. They focus on training the dog's owners to train their dogs. I'd never recommend an owner send their dog away for training. However, seeking instruction from someone knowledgeable in dog training, especially as a novice seems no more than smart thinking to me. Edited June 12, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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