Allergy Dog - Seeking Skin Management Tips

[Polgara's Shadow]

Vulcan is a 4.5yo SBT who has had allergies/sensitivities since we brought him home at 8 weeks. He gets the itches from a few protein sources (lamb, fish, pork) and also has a contact allergy to grass (Kikuyu in particular). We manage Vulcan's food and environment so he isn't often exposed to his triggers. Usually his itches are very minimal with the odd malseb bath or calendula tea wash usually being sufficient but if needed I apply some cortizone cream or anti-histamine tablets.

However the recent autumn rains have resulted in a big flush of sappy grasses and despite best efforts to keep him off it he now has two sores which he can't stop licking at. The first sore appeared on Thursday and was healing over the weekend but he's been back at it today, opening it up again, and I noticed another sore this morning.

I gave him a malseb bath two days ago and another today. Today I also applied that bad tasting stuff (from vet) around the sores and his feet in general. I'll confine him to my property for a few days too. We have a bush block so no sappy grasses here but we can't avoid it when going for a walk unless we drive to the beach and I carry him over the grass.

I might need to get him an elizabethan collar from the vet if the sores don't improve, I'm also out of anti-histamines - but vet isn't open until tomorrow.

I'm after any suggestions for treating the sores, getting him to stop licking them and generally making him more comfortable. I'm also keen to hear about better management options for him in future. Is it worth getting his hair tested to see if there's anything else we can do to help his skin cope better (I've been umm-ing and ahh-ing about this for awhile)? Should I get him boots so I can walk him without contacting the grass?

[Lynn168]

My Sheltie has had all kinds of skin problems over the years (food allergies, contact allergies, problems with his immune system, perivascular dermatitis, and who knows what else), and I've tried a million and one things to stop the itching and keep him from licking and scratching.

The only thing that keeps him from licking in an Elizabethan collar - he doesn't like them very much, but nothing else works (bad tasting spray, socks, even a baby onesie, etc). If you use the collar for a few days it might at least give the sores a bit of time to heal and be less painful and itchy. Chase gets quite itchy when he goes to the park and rolls around on the grass, but a Malaseb bath after to wash the pollen and bits of grass off usually works really well. So maybe try rinsing his feet after a walk?

Chase has been much much better in the last few years thanks to a special diet and supplements to support his immune system and digestion (plus a tiny amount of Prednisolone - 1mg/day).

[VizslaMomma]

I might need to get him an elizabethan collar from the vet if the sores don't improve, I'm also out of anti-histamines - but vet isn't open until tomorrow.

Did you know that you could use a human anti-histamine for your boy?

It is much cheaper than one from the Vet.

I'll try to find some recent threads here about this. As well there is more about skin issues.

Am using my ipad which is a tad restricting to search.

BRB

:)

[kelpiecuddles]

Which antihitamines do you use? many of them are just human brand ones anyway, sometimes rebadged for the vet market. A lot of people whose dogs are on long term antihistamines use human ones any way as they are the same thing and work out a lot cheaper

[Polgara's Shadow]

Lynn168 Love the idea of a baby onesie! LMAO at mental image of him in a lion onesie! Interested to hear what your pup's special diet and supplements are and how you came to decide on them. He'll probably need the e-collar this week, but like yours he isn't impressed with it so am hoping the sores will heal in the next day or so with management.

VizslaMomma & kelpiecuddles he gets one tablet in three months...maybe, so cost of tablets themselves isn't a big issue as we aren't using much, but avoiding an unnecessary vet consult fee would be good. Didn't know he could have human anti-H's though and getting them from a chemist would be much more convenient!

Edited April 21, 2014 by Polgara's Shadow

[VizslaMomma]

VizslaMomma & kelpiecuddles he gets one tablet in three months...maybe, so cost of tablets themselves isn't a big issue as we aren't using much, but avoiding an unnecessary vet consult fee would be good. Didn't know he could have human anti-H's though and getting them from a chemist would be much more convenient!

Might be easily solved:

Of you have the info on his medication, you could either google it OR ask the chemist to look up MIMS to see what it is. (MIMS is like a bible for medications.

Maybe if you know, post here as well.

One point, I think that repeat of the malaseb bath was too soon for your baby. Yeah, I know you are between a rock & a hard place. But it's a really 'strong' thing to be putting on a sensitive skin.

[Polgara's Shadow]

I didn't think to get the name of the anti-H's before I threw the empty bottle out a few months ago..Doh! I'll call the vet up this week and ask what they were - or get some more if we go in.

I hear you on the Malseb bath - usually only do twice a week at the most and only when necessary...but as you said its a rock and a hard place when the lick frenzy is on.

Fortunately lick frenzy seems to be over for now - Vulcan is fast asleep on my bed. When he wakes up I'll put some more bad tasting stuff on.

[Lynn168]

Lynn168 Love the idea of a baby onesie! LMAO at mental image of him in a lion onesie! Interested to hear what your pup's special diet and supplements are and how you came to decide on them. He'll probably need the e-collar this week, but like yours he isn't impressed with it so am hoping the sores will heal in the next day or so with management.

I cut a hole in the onesie for the tail, haha. It looked pretty spectacular but didn't really solve the licking/scratching.

The diet and supplements were the recommendation of my holistic vet: Minced goat, rabbit, and cooling vegetables (lettuce, broccoli, green apples, cucumber, bitter melon) as well as a bit of cooked duck liver. We've been through an amazing amount of supplements over the years, including oils, probiotics, chinese herbs etc. At the moment he gets slippery elm and liquid hydrated bentonite (to support his gut), a vitamin B complex, something called R-Alpha Lipoic, C Salts, Dipan 9, Nalgesic tablets, and a Chinese skin formula. Most of these are from Natural Remedies Group, nrgaust.com. I really have no idea what most of these do and just follow my vet's advice - but to my understanding they're all about supporting his gut and digestion, supporting his immune system, and cooling him down since he runs really hot. And of course the 1mg of Prednisolone (half a mg if we can manage it) helps even though it's such a small amount.

At his worst, he had lost/scratched away all the fur on his paws, legs, belly and sides, throat, and around the eyes and mouth. It was a scary sight and he was so unhappy. He's always been eating raw/fresh food and I've been really conscious of what I was feeding him, but he only started getting better after implementing the diet above. It took and while and a lot of trial and error, but he's finally at a point where the itching is not much of an issue anymore.

[denali]

Lynn168 Love the idea of a baby onesie! LMAO at mental image of him in a lion onesie! Interested to hear what your pup's special diet and supplements are and how you came to decide on them. He'll probably need the e-collar this week, but like yours he isn't impressed with it so am hoping the sores will heal in the next day or so with management.

I cut a hole in the onesie for the tail, haha. It looked pretty spectacular but didn't really solve the licking/scratching.

The diet and supplements were the recommendation of my holistic vet: Minced goat, rabbit, and cooling vegetables (lettuce, broccoli, green apples, cucumber, bitter melon) as well as a bit of cooked duck liver. We've been through an amazing amount of supplements over the years, including oils, probiotics, chinese herbs etc. At the moment he gets slippery elm and liquid hydrated bentonite (to support his gut), a vitamin B complex, something called R-Alpha Lipoic, C Salts, Dipan 9, Nalgesic tablets, and a Chinese skin formula. Most of these are from Natural Remedies Group, nrgaust.com. I really have no idea what most of these do and just follow my vet's advice - but to my understanding they're all about supporting his gut and digestion, supporting his immune system, and cooling him down since he runs really hot. And of course the 1mg of Prednisolone (half a mg if we can manage it) helps even though it's such a small amount.

At his worst, he had lost/scratched away all the fur on his paws, legs, belly and sides, throat, and around the eyes and mouth. It was a scary sight and he was so unhappy. He's always been eating raw/fresh food and I've been really conscious of what I was feeding him, but he only started getting better after implementing the diet above. It took and while and a lot of trial and error, but he's finally at a point where the itching is not much of an issue anymore.

May i ask who you're seeing? :)

[Lynn168]

May i ask who you're seeing? :)

Sure, Charissa Smith from http://www.acaciaanimalcare.com. She's located in Gatton but comes to Brisbane twice a week. :)

Like I said, it took a while and some trial and error but Chase improved slowly and steadily. Her consultations are a bit pricey at $120 but she really takes her time - I usually see her for an hour and a half when I have an appointment.

Also this is a bit graphic but really shows how far Chase has come.. from the end of 2010:

And now he's the happy, pretty dog in my signature :)

[denali]

Sure, Charissa Smith from http://www.acaciaanimalcare.com. She's located in Gatton but comes to Brisbane twice a week. :)

Like I said, it took a while and some trial and error but Chase improved slowly and steadily. Her consultations are a bit pricey at $120 but she really takes her time - I usually see her for an hour and a half when I have an appointment.

Thank you :)

Also this is a bit graphic but really shows how far Chase has come.. from the end of 2010:

And now he's the happy, pretty dog in my signature :)

WOW! what an improvement

he must feel so much better.

Well done for not giving up on finding a solution.

[Erny]

...they're all about supporting his gut and digestion, supporting his immune system, and cooling him down ...

This is what I think it is all about. We so much focus on symptoms (a lot of Vets do too) rather than focusing on getting the system to run to its optimum best (antibiotics; cortisone; shampoos; conditioners; etc), and that tends to send our dogs' systems into a cyclic frenzy. I'm not saying that drugs aren't necessary in the most of extreme cases (although I often question it, regardless) but in many cases we jump too soon. Keep things simple and plain. Work on cooling the system (game meat is the best for this, I find), along with select vegetables in appropriate quantities/ratio. Ease off the chemicals many tend to religiously apply even though they aren't always necessary. Supplements to support and help the over-taxed system relax and start working better, and the skin will stop taking the heat from the over-exertion the kidneys and liver (and other organs) can't deal with due to their distress.

Great work, Lynn168. You've done a remarkable job at walking the journey with Chase .

Edited April 21, 2014 by Erny

[oakway]

I always advise that the quickest method is getting blood drawn at your vets and sending it to Dr. Jean Dodds at HemoPet in California is the quickest method as she has a test for allergies and pardon the pun but is the quickest method of trying to releave the irritation for both of you.

[Polgara's Shadow]

Oh Wow! Lynn168 thanks for sharing - poor pup must have been very uncomfortable and you must be so pleased to have gotten on top of it all.

I am feeling very fortunate that Vulcan's issues are relatively minor.

Erny I've been thinking recently about tweaking his diet to help his immune system out but admit I have been reluctant because we seem to have gotten the food thing under control and now its just the contact allergies causing occasional flare ups. Is working on his diet likely to improve the odd flare up? The flare ups usually coincide with grasses having a growth spurt after rains (and are sappy).

Update: Put some more of the bad tasting stuff on all paws when he woke up and he's itching much less this afternoon. He's chilling out at my feet atm. The sores have scabbed over so good progress today . Hopefully we don't have to resort to the e-collar after all.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Polgara's Shadow

[Polgara's Shadow]

Hi oakway I haven't had his bloods done but we did do an elimination diet. As mentioned before with the food thing sorted his allergies are pretty minor really. He has the occasional flare up and it is always after contact with fresh kikuyu or other sappy grass. We don't have grass on our property so he is fine when at home but it's all over the neighborhood. We don't have made pathways here so its either the road or the grass nature-strips which makes it impossible to avoid completely. Vulcan was good all summer when the grass had died off but flaring up again now the rain has made it spring up everywhere. If I was at all confused about what was causing the problem I'd not hesitate to get the bloods done but the relationship is very clear.

[Erny]

Hi oakway I haven't had his bloods done but we did do an elimination diet. As mentioned before with the food thing sorted his allergies are pretty minor really. He has the occasional flare up and it is always after contact with fresh kikuyu or other sappy grass. We don't have grass on our property so he is fine when at home but it's all over the neighborhood. We don't have made pathways here so its either the road or the grass nature-strips which makes it impossible to avoid completely. Vulcan was good all summer when the grass had died off but flaring up again now the rain has made it spring up everywhere. If I was at all confused about what was causing the problem I'd not hesitate to get the bloods done but the relationship is very clear.

EXCEPT you haven't asked yourself the question of "why" can't his system cope with the grasses. Ok - fair enough ... you know what triggers the symptoms and I agree it is best to try to avoid them whilst he remains reactive to them, but working to support the gut and immune system is a good place to start. And that includes checking thyroid function as if a thyroid is not functioning properly the immune system is affected (and/or vice versa). Anything else that might not be right also loads the system which in turn has the immune system affected. So you see ..... you know what the trigger is, but why is it a trigger?

I'd run a thyroid test via Dr Jean Dodds (USA) - not Australia, as our thyroid tests are not as sensitive nor thorough. I'd probably run a blood panel test as well, even just to rule out anything else that might not have been thought of. When I've had these tests run, I did so with the attitude that I was seeking to rule-out possibilities - that made it money well worth spent, IMO.

I'd run a hair-DNA test as well as this can point you in the right direction of which supplements your dog's system actually needs to get things running as optimum as they can be.

Keep up with the Calendula Tea - rinse off his paws after he's been in contact with the grasses you mention and whenever he is exhibiting signs of irritation (i.e. licking his paws) and wherever you see those signs. The Calendula Tea doesn't cure, but it does sooth and assists in prevention of secondary skin infection.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Erny

[essentialdog]

May i ask who you're seeing? :)

Sure, Charissa Smith from http://www.acaciaanimalcare.com. She's located in Gatton but comes to Brisbane twice a week. :)

Like I said, it took a while and some trial and error but Chase improved slowly and steadily. Her consultations are a bit pricey at $120 but she really takes her time - I usually see her for an hour and a half when I have an appointment.

Also this is a bit graphic but really shows how far Chase has come.. from the end of 2010:

And now he's the happy, pretty dog in my signature :)

That's quite upsetting seeing the state of your Sheltie's skin back in 2010. I'm so glad he feels better. I would freak out if that were happening to my dog. Good for you for persisting.

[essentialdog]

Oh Wow! Lynn168 thanks for sharing - poor pup must have been very uncomfortable and you must be so pleased to have gotten on top of it all.

I am feeling very fortunate that Vulcan's issues are relatively minor.

Erny I've been thinking recently about tweaking his diet to help his immune system out but admit I have been reluctant because we seem to have gotten the food thing under control and now its just the contact allergies causing occasional flare ups. Is working on his diet likely to improve the odd flare up? The flare ups usually coincide with grasses having a growth spurt after rains (and are sappy).

Update: Put some more of the bad tasting stuff on all paws when he woke up and he's itching much less this afternoon. He's chilling out at my feet atm. The sores have scabbed over so good progress today . Hopefully we don't have to resort to the e-collar after all.

I can't see if anyone has mentioned it here so far, but you could ask your vet (just go to the reception, no need to have a consultation) and they will give you a list of antihistamines and dosage rates that you can buy from your local chemist that are suitable for dogs.

[WreckitWhippet]

http://www.ingleburnvet.com.au/antihistamines.htm

[Salukifan]

An 8 week old pup with skin allergies points very strongly to a genetic component in your dog's immune system issues. Given his breed and colour, this is unsurprising.

So the best you can do to overcome that genetic predispositon to skin issues is attempt to boost his immune system and to prevent outbreaks.

I would not wash a dog with skin issues in an anti-fungal shampoo (Malaseb) twice a week. You are stripping the oils from his skin, making it easier for allergens to take effect. Plain water or Erny's calendular tea sound like a far better option.

I would be wondering about thyroid issues - they tend to go with blue and with white colouring in dogs. So I second recommnendations for those tests.

A changed diet may assist with managing his skin. Grain free might be a good starting point.