Badbee Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I would like to present what happened today and a few days ago. We have been trying to socialise Abby, we take her most places with us, she has always been a little fearful of men. When our sons visit us at home she growls at them as they come in, they ignore her, they sit down after a while Abby will go to them very hesitantly but then walk away. If they stand up to go somewhere else in the house she will growl or bark at them. She doesn't do it with our grandchildren who are younger or females who come to visit. Last week my husband and I we went to a different cafe to our usual and sat outside, every time someone walked passed she growled and barked. At no time did she relax. When we got into the car to drive home she slept from I think just mental exhaustion. Today we went on a family picnic, there were not a huge number of people around us, she sat at our feet and growled continuously but most particularly when someone got up and moved around. She did not growl at the females or my granddaughters but growled constantly at my son, and brothers. I prodded her when she was growling to distract her and said a firm no, that worked for about 30 seconds. She eventually stopped when my husband picked her up and let her sit on his lap, this was in the last 30 minutes of our picnic. She sat beside my mother in the car and didn't make a sound, it seems to be men that cause her the most fear. I dont know much about her history other than she was bought up in the country and her previous owner said she used to growl at her partner when he came home. We got her when she was 8 months old and have only had her 4 months. We are going to obedience classes and at the first class she displayed similar behaviour, growling and barking at the other dogs, the trainer placed a barrier around her so she couldn't see the other dogs and she was much better. Last week at our second session she was much better behaved, she still growled occasionally but seemed more comfortable. She is very attached to my OH and myself, and I would like to help her overcome her fear. Should we take her to the vets first, I don't think there is anything physically wrong with her but she took a vet long time to settle in with us after we got her, which isn't surprising as she was attached to her previous owner, a breeder who decided she wasn't going to breed with her. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'd start working with your sons first as you can control what they do; unlike strangers at a cafe. I wouldn't expose the dog to new, threatening experiences for a while. Keep getting your sons to sit on the floor but to drop small pieces of food next to them and letting the dogs approach them - but do take it slowly. Build up confidence slowly and keep your son's movements to a minimum while feeding them. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Please don't tell your dog off for growling, she is expressing exceptionally clearly that she is very uncomfortable with the situation. Chances are she has actually already given a whole heap of signals to say she is uncomfortable but they have gone unnoticed. If you lose the growl you may just get what comes next - a bite. And that will be bad news for your dog and whoever is on the receiving end. If your dog is letting you know she is uncomfortable it is your responsibility to fix the situation. This is not a quick fix problem. Ideally you will get some help from someone who has had experience with fear issues. And someone who can observe your dog when she is in these situations. If your dog is expressing her discomfort and fear remove her from the situation causing this. This doesn't have to mean completely remove her it may just mean putting distance between her and the fear-causing thing/person. IF you don't know about recognising stress signs then do some research on this so you can alleviate our dogs fear before she reaches a point where she feels the need to growl. But most importantly get some help from someone who can help with this specific issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Best advice I would give - DONT GET ADVICE ONLINE FOR THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOUR. Go and see someone who specialises in this.... not just your local obedience club.... This needs to be addressed immediately and there are many factors that need to be taken into account. Most advice here might be well meaning but most do not have the experience nor the facts to really assess the problems and solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Second the above, without seeing the whole chain of events it's hard to know what's going on. There is a large number of behaviorists and if you say which area you are in people can recommend a good one, they're not all equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) On 31 March you made a thread on this topic. I recall you were in the Illawarra area I recall the lovely name of your dog. Did anything eventuate with the same advice given then? You need guidance to help the dog as everyone has said :) Edited April 20, 2014 by VizslaMomma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm guessing if the trainer is using visual barriers they are a Delta trainer? Speak to them after class. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbee Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm guessing if the trainer is using visual barriers they are a Delta trainer? Speak to them after class. :) Yes they are Delta trainers and I have spoken to the trainer about Abby and we have taken her advice regarding Abby being dog reactive on a lead. When we walk Abby now and a dog comes towards us we just keep walking in the same way, we don't stop, we just ignore the dog coming towards us. It is working very slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbee Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 On 31 March you made a thread on this topic. I recall you were in the Illawarra area I recall the lovely name of your dog. Did anything eventuate with the same advice given then? You need guidance to help the dog as everyone has said :) We are seeing a Delta trainer but after today's incident I intend making an appointment with Steve from Kurrajong, I just wanted some advice to in the mean time as we will probably need to wait 4 weeks to see Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Sorry, just saw the post about seeing Steve. I would personally withdraw her from obedience classes and stop taking her to public places like cafés and parks until you can see him. I would separate her from male visitors either by crating, baby gates or putting her in a separate room. I concur . This very sensible advice, which will immediately reduce stress/potential for something nasty happening. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louise6616 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 yes, I agree. Sometimes without realising, you might be making the issues worse. My only suggestion while waiting a behaviouralist appoint, is when walking Abby and you see another dog, turn to a 90degree angle and walk away from them as they pass. It's a lot less threatening for a dog. Good luck! Keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) I agree with those who've said don't just take advice from online.... but stick with an experienced, knowledgeable behaviourist. Which is what you're doing. Your dog's a lucky girl to have both you & your OH doing whatever it takes to help her. If you'd be OK with it, would you let us know how things go? Edited April 20, 2014 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disintegratus Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Only take one piece of advice on the internet: See a professional behaviourist!!! My boy Thundercleese was displaying similar issues at a younger age, my thought was that he was just going through a fear period and would get over it. 4-odd years later, I have 45kg of fear aggressive dog, which can be very difficult to manage. Good luck with Abby :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 We are seeing a Delta trainer but after today's incident I intend making an appointment with Steve from Kurrajong, I just wanted some advice to in the mean time as we will probably need to wait 4 weeks to see Steve. Excellent. Abby is lucky to have you doing all possible to help her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Going to cafes and other crowded places is obviously stressing her and other patrons will get annoyed at being growled and barked at - stressful all round. As others have recommended a good behaviourist will be able to advise how to gradually socialise her. Something involving a male may have happened at the breeders that you don't know of. Its good that you have made an effort at getting some training for her - its just getting the right fit that is the challenge :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbee Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Thank you all for your quick reply. I was so concerned yesterday and felt quite helpless by the time we got home. I have sent an email to Steve Courtney requesting the first available appointment. I will keep you all informed as to how we go. Thank goodness for this forum it has been such a help over the last 4 months. Many of you have far more experience than I do, which isn't hard because I have none. We do want yo do the best for Abby and your response have always been so helpful. :) Edited April 20, 2014 by Badbee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 When I started with Jake I thought a few trips to the park would get him used to seeing dogs and then we would go to obedience classes and within a few months I would have sorted it all out. Two years later and I have an awful lot of experience and a managed but not cured dog. Steve was the first trainer who spoke sense and gave me a bit of insight into what I was dealing with but is too far away for me and I felt I needed weekly help. Finding someone you trust and who can accommodate both your and your digs personality is important. I'm a softie and Jake's stubborn so we are a tricky combination but with the right trainer we have made good progress in a way I am comfortable with. If the manner in which the trainer works doesn't sit with you I think it would be hard to be consistent or stick with it for any length of time which is why it's important not to get stuck with someone who has just one method. A good trainer will take into account timeframe, personalities and available resources and not just give you a one size fits all approach. Good luck there's also a thread for reactive dogs which is a sort of support group for all the norty dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbee Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 When I started with Jake I thought a few trips to the park would get him used to seeing dogs and then we would go to obedience classes and within a few months I would have sorted it all out. Two years later and I have an awful lot of experience and a managed but not cured dog. Steve was the first trainer who spoke sense and gave me a bit of insight into what I was dealing with but is too far away for me and I felt I needed weekly help. Finding someone you trust and who can accommodate both your and your digs personality is important. I'm a softie and Jake's stubborn so we are a tricky combination but with the right trainer we have made good progress in a way I am comfortable with. If the manner in which the trainer works doesn't sit with you I think it would be hard to be consistent or stick with it for any length of time which is why it's important not to get stuck with someone who has just one method. A good trainer will take into account timeframe, personalities and available resources and not just give you a one size fits all approach. Good luck there's also a thread for reactive dogs which is a sort of support group for all the norty dogs. Thanks Hank I really appreciate your comments, I have been reading a lot of what you have contributed and find that I feel similarly. I am a softie and my heart goes out to her when she gets like she did yesterday. In the moment when it is happening I wonder if we are the right humans for her but when we get home and she us relaxed and a "normal," dog that all disappears, we both care for her so much. She has bought a new dimension into our lives. She is so willing to be trained, she sits beautifully, drops, stays, shakes and we are doing some new things now, but she really only does these in the safety of our home. :) Thank you for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks Hank I really appreciate your comments, I have been reading a lot of what you have contributed and find that I feel similarly. I am a softie and my heart goes out to her when she gets like she did yesterday. In the moment when it is happening I wonder if we are the right humans for her but when we get home and she us relaxed and a "normal," dog that all disappears, we both care for her so much. She has bought a new dimension into our lives. She is so willing to be trained, she sits beautifully, drops, stays, shakes and we are doing some new things now, but she really only does these in the safety of our home. :) Thank you for your support. One of the best things to come out of all your searching to help Abby is the help you will get to be able to aid Abbey thro' her issues. Helping her is two- sided. Abbey has certain needs. You also need the right directions to go. 4 months is a short time for this girl to overcome an unhappy start to her life. Slow progress will be best. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 There's also pet resorts Australia Bowral if that's not too far from you. See if Glenn is available for a chat and recommendation of a behaviorist available now if they're not convenient for you to visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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