mita Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The West Midlands Police in the UK have produced a draft protocol for dealing with/investigating serious or fatal dog attacks. Covers all the right questions. And makes links with the legislation ... including dog owners' responsibilities. They acknowledge the problem of breed identification.. & say 'each dog is to be assessed on an individual basis'. We need something similar here. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gC25gZV8QMIJ:www.wlscb.org.uk/draft_fatal_and_serious_dog_attack_protocol_march_11-2.pdf+West+Midlands+Police+draft+protocols+serious+or+fatal+dog+attacks&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) The West Midlands Police in the UK have produced a draft protocol for dealing with/investigating serious or fatal dog attacks. Covers all the right questions. And makes links with the legislation ... including dog owners' responsibilities. They acknowledge the problem of breed identification.. & say 'each dog is to be assessed on an individual basis'. We need something similar here. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gC25gZV8QMIJ:www.wlscb.org.uk/draft_fatal_and_serious_dog_attack_protocol_march_11-2.pdf+West+Midlands+Police+draft+protocols+serious+or+fatal+dog+attacks&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au I am fairly certain that all of the legal stuff I have read in relation to dog control, refer to a dog being under control in a public place. Many attacks occur on private properties. I agree that the public need to be protected, but so do little children and elderly people when they are in private places. I do not fall into either of these categories and I too would like to feel safe. To date I have managed to live my life relatively unharmed by animals, but I am physically no match for a large dog if it decided it would like to tear bits off me and I am not Robinson Crusoe. Must admit to never raising the "public place" vs "private place" issue in discussions. I hope it is an aspect that can be addressed. Many of us have seen how quickly dogs can attack and I agree with Jed ... it is good to know why a dog attacks, if this can be determined, but in this case we may never know. A certain smell ... a certain way of walking or using hands ... we simply may never know. What is known here is that the risk factor was high ... the lady was old and vulnerable. edited for S & G Edited April 20, 2014 by Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) The West Midlands Police in the UK have produced a draft protocol for dealing with/investigating serious or fatal dog attacks. Covers all the right questions. And makes links with the legislation ... including dog owners' responsibilities. They acknowledge the problem of breed identification.. & say 'each dog is to be assessed on an individual basis'. We need something similar here. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gC25gZV8QMIJ:www.wlscb.org.uk/draft_fatal_and_serious_dog_attack_protocol_march_11-2.pdf+West+Midlands+Police+draft+protocols+serious+or+fatal+dog+attacks&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au I am fairly certain that all of the legal stuff I have read in relation to dog control, refer to a dog being under control in a public place. Many attacks occur on private properties. I agree that the public need to be protected, but so do little children and elderly people when they are in private places. I don't know what 'legal stuff' you read & are referring to, about dog control. But the draft protocol from the UK police that I posted, referred to investigating serious or fatal dog attacks as much as in the home as anywhere else. Given that, statistically, most occur there. A reading of the questions that the investigating authorities have to ask, indicates inclusion of a domestic setting. As does some of the UK legislation that they see as possibly having a bearing.... for example, some relate to care of & responsibility for children within households and families. In everyday life, those UK police are called in to deal with/investigate both settings... domestic and in a public place. And that protocol referred to each. They also refer to the other agencies that are called in to contribute. I'm highlighting the domestic aspect because it's relevant to this topic. BTW, the term 'public safety' does not only refer to public places... it refers to people generally wherever they are. Edited April 20, 2014 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) The West Midlands Police in the UK have produced a draft protocol for dealing with/investigating serious or fatal dog attacks. Covers all the right questions. And makes links with the legislation ... including dog owners' responsibilities. They acknowledge the problem of breed identification.. & say 'each dog is to be assessed on an individual basis'. We need something similar here. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gC25gZV8QMIJ:www.wlscb.org.uk/draft_fatal_and_serious_dog_attack_protocol_march_11-2.pdf+West+Midlands+Police+draft+protocols+serious+or+fatal+dog+attacks&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au I am fairly certain that all of the legal stuff I have read in relation to dog control, refer to a dog being under control in a public place. Many attacks occur on private properties. I agree that the public need to be protected, but so do little children and elderly people when they are in private places. I don't know what 'legal stuff' you read & are referring to, about dog control. But the draft protocol from the UK police that I posted, referred to investigating serious or fatal dog attacks as much as in the home as anywhere else. Given that, statistically, most occur there. A reading of the questions that the investigating authorities have to ask, indicates inclusion of a domestic setting. As does some of the UK legislation that they see as possibly having a bearing.... for example, some relate to care of & responsibility for children within households and families. In everyday life, those UK police are called in to deal with/investigate both settings... domestic and in a public place. And that protocol referred to each. They also refer to the other agencies that are called in to contribute. I'm highlighting the domestic aspect because it's relevant to this topic. BTW, the term 'public safety' does not only refer to public places... it refers to people generally wherever they are. Second sentence of quoted article: "Furthermore, allowing any type of dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place is also a criminal offence." Protocols for what to do after the attack are with the scene of the attack in mind. However the second sentence gives me the feeling that criminality only applies to public places. This may not be the case as there is talk of the various charges that can be laid, including murder and manslaughter. I just do not think that there should be a statement relating to either public place or private place. Serious attacks can happen anywhere and it is up to humans to ensure that this can be prevented by control and observing safe practices. Sorry I did not spell this out in my first attempt at posting but I was called away. edited to further explain... Edited April 20, 2014 by Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 These people had another 5 similar dogs which suddenly disappeared after the attack ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I read that the dog was destroyed, but now it seems the owner has scarpered with the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I read that the dog was destroyed, but now it seems the owner has scarpered with the dog. There were 2 different attacks. Actually 3 as some robbers set their dog on to a shop owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 These people had another 5 similar dogs which suddenly disappeared after the attack ... Is this in reference to the elderly lady who was attacked or the other attack of the man with the injured hand? The thread has become a bit muddled now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 These people had another 5 similar dogs which suddenly disappeared after the attack ... Where did you read this? I can't find it in any of the articles online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I read that the dog was destroyed, but now it seems the owner has scarpered with the dog. That was the second attack, one where a dog attacked a couple of their dog in Redfern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) These people had another 5 similar dogs which suddenly disappeared after the attack ... Where did you read this? I can't find it in any of the articles online Yes, I was a bit mystified by this statement by Dogmad as well. For the last few days, I have had the television on most of the time as I come and go from the house (on ABC 1 or ABC24) so lots of snippets of news, but haven't heard that one. ETA: when the shocking news was first broadcast, I did hear neighbours being interviewed saying that there had been lots of big dogs over the years and many of them had caused problems by getting out and frightening people Edited April 21, 2014 by Dame Danny's Darling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) These people had another 5 similar dogs which suddenly disappeared after the attack ... Where did you read this? I can't find it in any of the articles online Yes, I was a bit mystified by this statement by Dogmad as well. For the last few days, I have had the television on most of the time as I come and go from the house (on ABC 1 or ABC24) so lots of snippets of news, but haven't heard that one. ETA: when the shocking news was first broadcast, I did hear neighbours being interviewed saying that there had been lots of big dogs over the years and many of them had caused problems by getting out and frightening people That's what they said on 7 news last night that they owned 5 other dogs that were registered as staffys and the attacking dog was registered as a terrier and yes they had disappeared after the attack. Edited April 21, 2014 by HazyWal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Oh, thanks HW. I didn't hear that. I hope the authorities have more guts than Gosford had shown and tracks them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffikki Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Has anyone heard how the lady is doing? 7 news video here where it is mentioned about the other dogs owned at the same address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Has anyone heard how the lady is doing? 7 news video here where it is mentioned about the other dogs owned at the same address. Still in a critical condition, according to the reporter on this video clip. Cant help but think that all the owners involved would call themselves "dog lovers" ... dogs, and the dog world, deserves better but sadly the choice is not theirs Anyone can own a dog, no matter what their intentions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Has anyone heard how the lady is doing? 7 news video here where it is mentioned about the other dogs owned at the same address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 I don't know about anyone else, but I am finding it hard to get this lady out of my mind. Remember the other thread where the jogger was jumped on by two dogs and the photographs of her face afterwards? Those dogs were on a lead and, although I don't know the full story, probably made only the one contact before being pulled back, but that woman was really badly wounded. Can you imagine the state this elderly lady must be in. Because of injuries from dog bites, gardening, etc, my right arms looks as though I might have been indulging in some self harm over the years - the smallest scratch seems to leave a scar these days on my ageing flesh. I am not being a ghoul, but it crossed my mind yesterday that photographs of this lady might give some people a terrible shock and make them realise the damage dogs can do - whether by accident or intent. Of course action like that can backfire, but how on earth do you get people to understand the responsibility of owning dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffikki Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'm the same DDD, I think about her often and imagine her injuries would have been quite horrific My dogs are kept on lead around my mother, who's 82, as even an unintentional bump would bruise and an accidental claw would rip right through her delicate skin. The description by the men who helped, makes me think her injuries are very severe Possibly why they haven't released pictures is because the dog was owned by family and their shock and possible guilt feelings must be taken into account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I don't know about anyone else, but I am finding it hard to get this lady out of my mind. Remember the other thread where the jogger was jumped on by two dogs and the photographs of her face afterwards? Those dogs were on a lead and, although I don't know the full story, probably made only the one contact before being pulled back, but that woman was really badly wounded. Can you imagine the state this elderly lady must be in. Because of injuries from dog bites, gardening, etc, my right arms looks as though I might have been indulging in some self harm over the years - the smallest scratch seems to leave a scar these days on my ageing flesh. I am not being a ghoul, but it crossed my mind yesterday that photographs of this lady might give some people a terrible shock and make them realise the damage dogs can do - whether by accident or intent. Of course action like that can backfire, but how on earth do you get people to understand the responsibility of owning dogs? It really is awful. I've been thinking about her a lot. Does anyone know if she's still critical? Re the bolded part - while our society continues to focus on 'breed' as the sole reason for dog attacks, what you describe won't get people to understand the responsibility of owning dogs. The general dog population will not think it applies to them because their dog isn't a 'pit bull', and therefore their dog couldn't possibly hurt anyone or anything. They will continue to be complacent and these incidents will continue to occur. It's only once we start focusing on and educating based on what studies have found are the main contributors to serious dog attacks (of which we can already see there are a few in this situation), rather than 'breed', that we will see improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm the same DDD, I think about her often and imagine her injuries would have been quite horrific My dogs are kept on lead around my mother, who's 82, as even an unintentional bump would bruise and an accidental claw would rip right through her delicate skin. The description by the men who helped, makes me think her injuries are very severe Possibly why they haven't released pictures is because the dog was owned by family and their shock and possible guilt feelings must be taken into account? Photographs of victims aren't often released and I guess this is from the point of privacy and, frankly, some would be just too horrific . I remember years ago when my sister's dog (mini Poodle) just put his paws up on the chair arm where dad's arm was resting - tore into his arm quite unintentionally and dad was pretty stoic, but the wound was pretty awful. It really is awful. I've been thinking about her a lot. Does anyone know if she's still critical? Re the bolded part - while our society continues to focus on 'breed' as the sole reason for dog attacks, what you describe won't get people to understand the responsibility of owning dogs. The general dog population will not think it applies to them because their dog isn't a 'pit bull', and therefore their dog couldn't possibly hurt anyone or anything. They will continue to be complacent and these incidents will continue to occur. It's only once we start focusing on and educating based on what studies have found are the main contributors to serious dog attacks (of which we can already see there are a few in this situation), rather than 'breed', that we will see improvement. I'm glad I'm not alone . I was wondering whether I was becoming a bit obsessive. In today's society we seem to be very unhelpfully focussed on finding a single point of blame, sadly, thus the focus on breed rather than education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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