Edge Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Hi, I'm a long time reader first time poster. I would be very interested in people's oppinions on the following scenario: Puppy purchased from pedigree breeder with everything done correctly and above board. Puppy was required to travel long distance so had additional vet check and was certified healthy tp travel with carrier. Pet arrived at new home. Time passed (approx 14mths) puppy has developed condition. There is no evidence to suggest it is a heritable condition (although it is in other breeds), there is also evidence to suggest that cause of condition could be (amongst other things) caused by trauma. Is the owner entitled to compensation? If you were the breeder what would you do? (background: I'm not a breeder in any way shape of form, nor do I own the puppy, just a scenario I heard about around the way and wondered what other people would consider is right). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'm not a breeder(although i do hope to be down the track) but there is no way I would see my girl's breeder as being responsible for something that far down the track. Buying from a breeder only increases your chances of a healthy pup, it doesn't guarantee one for their whole life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 No, the owner isn't entitled to anything. Even if it was inherited, but it wasn't a common condition and not one that can or should be tested for, then it's just luck of the draw for the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 At 14 mths ,,and a condition developing from trauma? Just on this info - I presume a recent trauma would be resposible ? I imagine a breeder would not be responsible . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfch Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 No i definitely would not see the breeder as responsible in any way. Another case a bit different- I heard of someone (friend of friend of friend sort of thing) who bought a blue staffy (figures) and paid quite a lot for it, and the puppy turned out to have a heart murmur a few months later- quite a serious one. The breeder offered refund if puppy was also returned. Is this standard? I sort of feel like that's quite harsh after someone has bonded with the puppy expecting them to return it in order to get a refund for a health condition that is serious and costly but maybe this is standard practise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 The critical words are 'could be' ... in relation to the condition that is said to be possibly due to 'trauma'. 'Could be' is not definitive. Seems there's no hard evidence to say 'This particular condition, occurring in this particular dog, IS caused by trauma.' Can't see any responsibility by the breeder, in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) To the OP. At 14 months I do not see the breeder has any obligation to compensate the owner. It is not reasonable to expect a "lifetime" warranty on a living thing. The breeder I assume has had no influence on how this dog has been fed and handled during the period the new owner has had it so how can anyone consider they should be responsible for anything? No i definitely would not see the breeder as responsible in any way. Another case a bit different- I heard of someone (friend of friend of friend sort of thing) who bought a blue staffy (figures) and paid quite a lot for it, and the puppy turned out to have a heart murmur a few months later- quite a serious one. The breeder offered refund if puppy was also returned. Is this standard? I sort of feel like that's quite harsh after someone has bonded with the puppy expecting them to return it in order to get a refund for a health condition that is serious and costly but maybe this is standard practise? I agree with this breeder. IMO a "customer" cannot expect to have the "object" and the money. Many people are not happy about animals being considered property but on the other hand want the benefits of owning property when something goes wrong and they want compensation. It is part of owning a living thing that things go wrong and the owner should accept the responsibility. I would hope that any relative tests had been done on the litter and parents and all was well. It is a case of "Let the buyer beware" and it is the buyers responsibility to check that the results of any health testing carried out on what they are buying is what it should be or walk away and find another breeder. Having said that I do not advocate that a breeder should be selling pups from parents that have not been appropriately tested and have done all within their power to ensure a healthy litter. PS I'm not convinced animals should be deemed property either but they are and that is what we have to work with. Edited April 13, 2014 by Airedaler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Kinda depends I think, if the pup reached 14 months and there was nothing to suggest this condition was there at the start then I would say the owner doesn't really have recourse for compensation. However having been in the situation where the bills are mounting up I guess I could see where the owner would look at that as an option. --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Thanks so much for the responses - confirmed what I had thought, but does lead me to another question. At what age does a breeders responsibility end. For example pup leaves at eight to ten weeks - and develops a non heritable condition? Edited April 13, 2014 by Edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If it's a non heritable condition, and not something that could be reasonably known prior to leaving the breeder then the age or time is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Airedaler, your post was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 if the pup arrives at his new home in good health and then developes a non-heritable non-congenital condition I don't see why the breeder would have any responsibilty, unless they gave bad rearing advice to the new owners or hadn't been honest about their vaccination protocols? If I place a healthy puppy I can't be responsible for what the new owners do or for the risks in his new home, as I have no ability to mitigate that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Thanks so much for the responses - confirmed what I had thought, but does lead me to another question. At what age does a breeders responsibility end. For example pup leaves at eight to ten weeks - and develops a non heritable condition? Depends on what was agreed on in the puppy contract at the time of the sale. Also kind of depends on what the condition is as well, as a pup can appear healthy and complete vet checks then become sick, this is what happened with my boy Treb, he was fine then kind of dipped a bit when we got him, then went downhill after a surgery to fix a hernia he had and it was only then we worked out he has Addison's as it is triggered by stress. --Lhok Edited April 13, 2014 by Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Thanks so much for the responses - confirmed what I had thought, but does lead me to another question. At what age does a breeders responsibility end. For example pup leaves at eight to ten weeks - and develops a non heritable condition? non-heritable condition, responsibility stops when pup leaves breeder. Whether breeder chooses to help out in some way, up to individual. I sold a pup once and saw photo's a week later. He looked like a walking skeleton. Buyer, who had been advised on all things to do with feeding growing large breed pup, was only feeding pup twice a day. Should I have been held responsible for any later issues? To get it so thin in a week would/could have upset poor pups whole system. Buyers have to take responsibility for how the pups turn out as well. 14 months down the track for trauma - what a laugh. Heart murmur months later, you know shit happens when you are dealing with a live being. You can do all the tests in the world, be as careful as you can be, both buyer and seller but you can't beat Mother Nature if she throws you a curve ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 ....... you know shit happens when you are dealing with a live being. You can do all the tests in the world, be as careful as you can be, both buyer and seller but you can't beat Mother Nature if she throws you a curve ball. This is true, but sad. People suing doctors because their children are born with disabilities, etc etc. Be totally shattering if you are one of the statisically few, but life can be very unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 My family went through a situation when I was young of buying two kittens from a very well regarded breeder, sadly it became apparent only a few months later that one had a moderate heart murmur. The breeder did offer to take her back and give us a refund or another kitten but lets face it by then we loved her. In my mind the breeder went above and beyond. She bred many very healthy kittens over a couple of decade at that point and we just got unlucky. In the end we decided to keep Belle despite her issues. She was never quite as healthy as her sister but lived a great life until about 14 years(her sister lived til nearly 21!). None of this colours my opinion of the breeder at all, she's still breeding and I fully intend to go back to her for another kitten at some stage. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Hi, I'm a long time reader first time poster. I would be very interested in people's oppinions on the following scenario: Puppy purchased from pedigree breeder with everything done correctly and above board. Puppy was required to travel long distance so had additional vet check and was certified healthy tp travel with carrier. Pet arrived at new home. Time passed (approx 14mths) puppy has developed condition. There is no evidence to suggest it is a heritable condition (although it is in other breeds), there is also evidence to suggest that cause of condition could be (amongst other things) caused by trauma. Is the owner entitled to compensation? If you were the breeder what would you do? (background: I'm not a breeder in any way shape of form, nor do I own the puppy, just a scenario I heard about around the way and wondered what other people would consider is right). You know I am going to call you on this. I believe this is your pup. You bought it from another state and it was flown? to you. It now has something and you are trying to see if the transport could have caused damage (HD?) "Owner" chose to buy a pup and get it transported, by car, rail, plane. Only "owners" word that pup has been correctly cared for since. Strange first post if pup is not yours and there have been plenty of stories about "what if" where it turned out the poster was talking about their very own dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 LOL, Rebanne. I'm sure most of us thought the same, but allow the poster some dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Who cares if they do own it or if they even are the breeder. They're just asking a question and are allowed to be as anonymous as anyone on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Who cares if they do own it or if they even are the breeder. They're just asking a question and are allowed to be as anonymous as anyone on this forum. cause I am sick of breeder bashing which this is another one of. And if they do own this dog then they are liars which I also can't abide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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