Who Would You Say Is At Fault

[lilypily]

Where was the person with the dog who was already sitting down supposed to go if the smaller dog veered closer? Granted, perhaps they sat in a walkway but if they were against a wall, hemmed in or surrounded by other seats I'm thinking they would have some difficult getting away from another dog intent on coming closer.

I think both parties got a wake up call and need to rethink arrival and circulation strategies. Short leashes for both, clear exit strategy for the DA one, just in case, and obviously more attention on all the dogs in the vicinity rather than human socialisation in the case of the smaller dog's owner.

Stay vigilant.

The other owner had ample opportunity to move his dog. My pup entered the big dogs space, but the owner also had a slack lead for the dog to lunge. I'm not defending myself here, I know I stuffed up.

Just got me thinking of legalities, two owners not on the ball and if an incident happens, i'd say 50/50 responsibility.

It's clearly given you a fright and you've learned from it.

Absolutley!! If this dog had of got my pup, he wouldn't be here today. To think I put my pup in that position makes me feel sick.

Showdog, have you read all this thread? I have stated more than once that I accept my responsibility, nowhere have I layed blame on the large dog. I do believe we both as owners could of prevented it. Two human errors, not the dogs.

[Rebanne]

Where was the person with the dog who was already sitting down supposed to go if the smaller dog veered closer? Granted, perhaps they sat in a walkway but if they were against a wall, hemmed in or surrounded by other seats I'm thinking they would have some difficult getting away from another dog intent on coming closer.

I think both parties got a wake up call and need to rethink arrival and circulation strategies. Short leashes for both, clear exit strategy for the DA one, just in case, and obviously more attention on all the dogs in the vicinity rather than human socialisation in the case of the smaller dog's owner.

Stay vigilant.

The other owner had ample opportunity to move his dog. My pup entered the big dogs space, but the owner also had a slack lead for the dog to lunge. I'm not defending myself here, I know I stuffed up.

Just got me thinking of legalities, two owners not on the ball and if an incident happens, i'd say 50/50 responsibility.

how could he have ample opportunity to move his dog? He was sitting down and your dog went too close. Dogs can lunge even on a tight lead, you weren't watching you have no idea if he had a slack lead.

[Rebanne]

Just because another dog likes its space does not make them DA. I don't like my personal space invaded so why should my dog?

[Dogsfevr]

Showdog, have you read all this thread? I have stated more than once that I accept my responsibility, nowhere have I layed blame on the large dog. I do believe we both as owners could of prevented it. Two human errors, not the dogs.

Yes i have which is why i posted what i did,you say that you take responsibility but each of your posts still wants the other dog blamed & the owner.

[lilypily]

Yes i have which is why i posted what i did,you say that you take responsibility but each of your posts still wants the other dog blamed & the owner.

Umm ok, that's your interpretation. There's only so much I can write to try and describe the scene, using the word 'walkway' means different things to different people.

I say both us owners are to blame. I have clearly said owners, not dogs. I'v deliberately withheld the breed of the big dog. Stop saying I want the other dog blamed.

[Tassie]

Just because another dog likes its space does not make them DA. I don't like my personal space invaded so why should my dog?

[lilypily]

Just because another dog likes its space does not make them DA. I don't like my personal space invaded so why should my dog?

Yes true. If you have a dog that is DA then shouldn't you have it trained to a certain point before taking it into a environment full of dogs so stupid, distracted owners such as myself don't near lose there pup. This dog meant business!!!!! There is personal space, then there is a full on attack. Would you punch someone in the face if they stood to close to you in the checkout line?.

Far out guys, I have repeatedly acknowledged my responsibility in this incident, I was in the wrong. I'm being jumped on because I say I think the other owner was responsible as well.

[ann21]

I think people are being too harsh here. Lilypily already acknowledged she was responsible. Are you saying the onus is on all other dog owners to watch their dogs, but it's ok if the owner of the reactive dog wasn't watching what was happening?

[Rebanne]

Just because another dog likes its space does not make them DA. I don't like my personal space invaded so why should my dog?

Yes true. If you have a dog that is DA then shouldn't you have it trained to a certain point before taking it into a environment full of dogs so stupid, distracted owners such as myself don't near lose there pup. This dog meant business!!!!! There is personal space, then there is a full on attack. Would you punch someone in the face if they stood to close to you in the checkout line?.

Far out guys, I have repeatedly acknowledged my responsibility in this incident, I was in the wrong. I'm being jumped on because I say I think the other owner was responsible as well.

well just cause you think the other dog was to blame doesn't mean we all do. How do you know it isn't trained to a certain standard and your stupidity has just set it back 10fold? Yes I might punch someone in the face at the checkout line if they ran up to me and invaded my space. How do I know what their intentions are?

[lilypily]

So now dogs and owners are one? I keep saying owner and everone else says it's the dog I blame. Okay then, I absolve myself of all responsibility, it was my pups fault.

[Daisys Mum]

I would say it's your fault because the other owner was sitting with their dog and your dog got in their space... Whether or not your dog was friendly the other dog doesn't know what your dogs intentions were. Sorry

I have been in a situation where the other dog owner was too busy chatting to her friends to realise or care that her dog was being DA to other dogs and people walking past.... We all make mistakes, I know I have and I have learnt a lot from Dol and at least now you know it won't happen again :)

[Gamby]

Thanks for the message Lilypily. As you can see you raised a lot interest in your message.

We all need a wake-up call every now and again to bring us back on track again.

[lilypily]

Thanks Marg and Gamby. :) It sure won't happen again.

[lilypily]

I guess both are at fault but I think if you own an aggressive dog then more responsibility lies with you to make sure something like this never happens.

I have owned one in the past and I was always very vigilant about steering clear of dogs/people and being very cautious about everything around me. I never let my guard down in public.

This^^^^ is why I attribute some fault as well on the other owner (not dog) I too have owned a very dominant aggressive male and I was like the above quote. It would of been negligent of me to take him to a dog class, he would have wreaked havok.

It was one of those split second moments and I believe that me yanking the lead saved my puppy. Yes, my fault for allowing my pup to enter another dogs space, but (waiting to be jumped on again) if you know your dog has issues then don't put them in a close environment with other dogs.

[Simply Grand]

IMO both owners contributed to the situation, as you've already acknowledged Lilypily. As I've said before in close call situations like this, including when it's happened to me, it's an unfortunate thing that happened and all you can do is take it on board and work hard to avoid it happening again, as you've said you will.

I really don't know legally who would be at fault, though I suspect if one dog was injured and the other wasn't the dog who caused injury would be in more trouble.

The view that if another dog approaches mine inappropriately (but doesn't hurt them) it's appropriate for my dog to attack first, or for me to attempt to hurt (kick) the dog first just doesn't sit well with me. I expect my dogs (and have socialised and trained them) to tolerate some unexpected rudeness from other dogs.

Having said that I try to always be hyper aware of what other dogs are doing and am more than willing to step in front/distract the other dog/catch it before it reaches them and/or yell to another owner to do something. I am also fortunate with the temps of my dogs and understand that it is not that easy with reactive dogs. However I would not take a dog aggressive dog somewhere where I knew there would be other dogs and unknown owners and have my dog in a position where it and I cannot avoid other dogs approaching ie. sitting down.

[lilypily]

IMO both owners contributed to the situation, as you've already acknowledged Lilypily. As I've said before in close call situations like this, including when it's happened to me, it's an unfortunate thing that happened and all you can do is take it on board and work hard to avoid it happening again, as you've said you will.

I really don't know legally who would be at fault, though I suspect if one dog was injured and the other wasn't the dog who caused injury would be in more trouble.

The view that if another dog approaches mine inappropriately (but doesn't hurt them) it's appropriate for my dog to attack first, or for me to attempt to hurt (kick) the dog first just doesn't sit well with me. I expect my dogs (and have socialised and trained them) to tolerate some unexpected rudeness from other dogs.

Having said that I try to always be hyper aware of what other dogs are doing and am more than willing to step in front/distract the other dog/catch it before it reaches them and/or yell to another owner to do something. I am also fortunate with the temps of my dogs and understand that it is not that easy with reactive dogs. However I would not take a dog aggressive dog somewhere where I knew there would be other dogs and unknown owners and have my dog in a position where it and I cannot avoid other dogs approaching ie. sitting down.

You worded your post beautifully, much better than I could get across.

When I refer to a DA dog, I don't mean the snarls or snaps that can happen between dogs in situations like dog clubs. This dog went in for the kill, and my 2.5kg pup wouldn't of had a chance.

Even though it was my fault for being distracted and allowing my dog to get into this dogs space, It doesn't make me want to go back again. To risky.

[Rebanne]

Thanks for the message Lilypily. As you can see you raised a lot interest in your message.

We all need a wake-up call every now and again to bring us back on track again.

??

[Rebanne]

ETA: The dog owner was sitting where other dogs could avoid them. By your own admission your dog would not have gotten in its face if you'd been paying attention and had control of your dog.

exactly, dog just sitting there minding it's own business.

[Simply Grand]

I absolutely agree that reactive dogs need training too, I think structured obedience style work is great for them and controlled exposure to other dogs is needed of you are going to reduce the reactivity.

As I said though I wouldn't have my reactive dog somewhere where I couldn't move it further away or where it felt it couldn't move away and rely on others to avoid me.

That makes it sound like I'm saying the other owner was more responsible for what happened, I don't think that at all and maybe it hadn't occurred to them that there could be an issue. Hopefully they too have taken something from it.

[tdierikx]

It's a tough call to make when we only have one description as to what happened...

How would the other dog's owner describe the same incident? It may well be along the lines of what Snook described... possible, yes?

It's highly possible that the other dog's owner is at training in order to work on their dog's issues - and having others losing track of what their dogs are doing is not exactly what they were expecting either. Most people expect dog training groups to be places where people ARE paying a bit more attention to their dogs interactions.

I'd say that next time you go, you just be a little more aware of what your pup may be doing when you aren't paying close attention to it - pick it up if you want to stop and have a chat and pup still hasn't worked out it has to stay close to you. Will save everyone any grief (including you and your pup) in the long run, yes?

T.