Who Would You Say Is At Fault

[lilypily]

While at dog training if one person is sitting down with there large breed dog and another person walks past with there small breed dog and gets distracted in conversation with someone else, and there small breed dog (a puppy) pulls on the lead to say hi to the large breed dog, and the large breed dog lunges to attack. If an attack occurs, who is at fault?

Would the person who's distracted and having a loose lead be at fault, or the person with an aggressive dog for not having it controlled properly (not a once off lunge, you know your dog dislikes other dogs)

Or would you say both parties are equally to blame?

Just curious?

[Bjelkier]

I'd say both as neither had correct control of their dog.

[VizslaMomma]

Takes two to tango.

Both humans are in a situation where their vigilance is needed to control their dogs.

[huski]

Going just off the description in your OP, I would say both parties need to shoulder some blame.

If the owner of the large dog knows their dog is reactive or aggressive, they should be more aware of the environment around them. Did they fail to notice the small dog was close by? We can all be caught unawares at times, but in a environment like a dog training club or classes, that is a time IMO to be very aware of your surroundings and to be watching your dog closely.

If this is a dog training club/classes do they have a yellow ribbon rule or similar for dogs that need space?

The owner with the puppy also needs to be more careful and responsible, if they are new dog owner or new to the club they may need a reminder to be more aware of what their dog is doing. Any time I have my dogs out for training, they have my 100% undivided attention. If I have to stop to adjust something, grab something from my training bag or talk to someone even for 10 seconds, I always put my dogs in a down stay so I clearly tell them what they should be doing when I'm not working them. This stops them from disengaging from me, getting distracted, wandering off etc.

When I was instructing at my local obedience club we had announcements prior to classes starting and would always remind every one to give each other space, be aware of any dog wearing a yellow ribbon etc. If it is a problem with members becoming a bit lax with their dogs then it could be worthwhile to give everyone a reminder to be aware of their environment and responsible handle their dogs.

[Dame Aussie]

I would say both are at fault for not having their dogs under control. Small dog shouldn't have approached and owner of large dog should have better control also.

[Diva]

Both are responsible, although as an attack didn't occur I assume the big dog owner had enough control to prevent it.

The size of the dogs is irrelevant, my answer would be the same if it was a big dog approaching a small one, or two bigs, or two smalls.

[Gamby]

Oh that is a hard one as it all depends on what happened. If those who saw the incident were asked what happened there would be many different explanations.

I would say the owner of the smaller dog is at fault. Being distracted is not an excuse for the small dog going off and talking to the other dog.

The owner of the large dog should have been watching as it appears the owner knows the dog doesn't like dogs in it's space/face. (I hope the large dog was on lead an the handler was watching the dog also.)

We all need to constantly watch our dogs no matter where our dogs are.

This situation happens constantly no matter where the dogs are.

I've found that handlers in class look at the person talking to them.

They should be listening but eyes on the dog and what is around all the time.

[Rascalmyshadow]

I guess both are at fault but I think if you own an aggressive dog then more responsibility lies with you to make sure something like this never happens.

I have owned one in the past and I was always very vigilant about steering clear of dogs/people and being very cautious about everything around me. I never let my guard down in public.

[Dame Aussie]

Both are responsible, although as an attack didn't occur I assume the big dog owner had enough control to prevent it.

The size of the dogs is irrelevant, my answer would be the same if it was a big dog approaching a small one, or two bigs, or two smalls.

I agree with this too.

[Loving my Oldies]

Takes two to tango.

Both humans are in a situation where their vigilance is needed to control their dogs.

I agree with this. And I also like Diva's response saying that both owners are responsible.

It occurs to me that we are all too ready to want to and to actually apportion blame.

Bad things happen because someone takes their eyes of the ball - it happens to everyone. Of course, some things are totally blameworthy, but we are all fallible humans.

Responsibility.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Dame Danny's Darling

[Dogsfevr]

Small dog owner they where walking & distracted .

[lilypily]

Takes two to tango.

Both humans are in a situation where their vigilance is needed to control their dogs.

I agree with this. And I also like Diva's response saying that both owners are responsible.

It occurs to me that we are all too ready to want to and to actually apportion blame.

Bad things happen because someone takes their eyes of the ball - it happens to everyone. Of course, some things are totally blameworthy, but we are all fallible humans.

Responsibility.

Yes it was me with the puppy and i'm happy to take my responsibility. I walked past and saw a old dog club friend I haven't seen for years. I stopped to chat and let the lead go lax .

It was that split instant of seeing out of the corner of my eye and the sound, and I yanked the lead in (and my poor puppy) But better to be yanked, because this dog meant business..

Huski, I do think the owner was caught unaware, he called his dog off, but I do think I was the quicker one, and no he didn't have a yellow ribbon.

So I do take personal responsibility. It was to close for comfort, I really could of lost my pup if the big boy got him.

It got me wondering (not that I ever intend to be in that position again) What are the legalities if there is a fight and injuries at a dog club?

ETA: I am happy to be called a idiot, because I do know better

Edited April 7, 2014 by lilypily

[Guest Clover]

At bdoc?

I'd say you were at fault for not having your attention on your puppy.

[Rebanne]

You were at fault for letting your dog approach so close to another. The other person was sitting down quietly with their dog. Doesn't have to be a DA dog at all. My dog was once sitting between my knees when another ran right up to her. My dog bit the other dog on the nose. She never moved from between my knees. Impossible to stop her in that split second, not my dog's or my fault at all and my dog was not DA. I saw the dog coming but didn't have time to get to my feet or anything and my dog never lunged, that's how quick the other dog moved right into her space and into her face.

[lilypily]

At bdoc?

I'd say you were at fault for not having your attention on your puppy.

Yeah bdoc. I totally take responsibility, as I said I do know better (and my pup will glued to my side from now on).

Just thinking about it, and I thought we were both at fault, me obviously for allowing myself to be distracted and the other owner having a dog with issues and having it so close to a walk through area. If my dog was aggressive i'd create clear space.

But if it's 100% my fault, i'll wear it.

[Little Gifts]

Where was the person with the dog who was already sitting down supposed to go if the smaller dog veered closer? Granted, perhaps they sat in a walkway but if they were against a wall, hemmed in or surrounded by other seats I'm thinking they would have some difficult getting away from another dog intent on coming closer.

I think both parties got a wake up call and need to rethink arrival and circulation strategies. Short leashes for both, clear exit strategy for the DA one, just in case, and obviously more attention on all the dogs in the vicinity rather than human socialisation in the case of the smaller dog's owner.

Stay vigilant.

[lilypily]

Where was the person with the dog who was already sitting down supposed to go if the smaller dog veered closer? Granted, perhaps they sat in a walkway but if they were against a wall, hemmed in or surrounded by other seats I'm thinking they would have some difficult getting away from another dog intent on coming closer.

I think both parties got a wake up call and need to rethink arrival and circulation strategies. Short leashes for both, clear exit strategy for the DA one, just in case, and obviously more attention on all the dogs in the vicinity rather than human socialisation in the case of the smaller dog's owner.

Stay vigilant.

The other owner had ample opportunity to move his dog. My pup entered the big dogs space, but the owner also had a slack lead for the dog to lunge. I'm not defending myself here, I know I stuffed up.

Just got me thinking of legalities, two owners not on the ball and if an incident happens, i'd say 50/50 responsibility.

[dididog]

.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Terri S.

[Dogsfevr]

Personally i say suck it up & stop trying to blame the DA dog if infact its truly DA .

You weren't paying attention & where obviously standing chatting near the walkway ,you had no idea what your pup was doing until it got to close ,you said it was pulling to get closer yet didn't take control of your pup just kept talking near a walkway that i gather other people with dogs also had to use .

Big or small makes no difference .

[Little Gifts]

Where was the person with the dog who was already sitting down supposed to go if the smaller dog veered closer? Granted, perhaps they sat in a walkway but if they were against a wall, hemmed in or surrounded by other seats I'm thinking they would have some difficult getting away from another dog intent on coming closer.

I think both parties got a wake up call and need to rethink arrival and circulation strategies. Short leashes for both, clear exit strategy for the DA one, just in case, and obviously more attention on all the dogs in the vicinity rather than human socialisation in the case of the smaller dog's owner.

Stay vigilant.

The other owner had ample opportunity to move his dog. My pup entered the big dogs space, but the owner also had a slack lead for the dog to lunge. I'm not defending myself here, I know I stuffed up.

Just got me thinking of legalities, two owners not on the ball and if an incident happens, i'd say 50/50 responsibility.

It's clearly given you a fright and you've learned from it. I wonder whether the other owner has even given it a second thought though? I hope so as we can always learn from our experiences and do things better/differently. Quite a few years back I did obedience training with my boy at an outdoor venue. There was a DA dog there with an elderly man who had no control over it. He came to classes every week over three different courses and nothing ever changed. The dog was always kept well to the side, always with the choker collar hoiked tight around its neck and the man's arm sockets being wrenched out by its constant lunging. My boy was a very calm soul and he was often used in exercises with that dog, working out his triggers, how close other dogs could get, etc. At the time I felt sorry for the man as he seemed to love the dog. I used to think maybe he didn't put in enough practise between classes. Now I feel sad for the dog - wrong owner, crappy life spent on a chain.