sheena Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I would not risk any dog, but especially not a Dobe roaming unfenced acerage. It is irresponsible. I would look at an area ( and this can be acres big) fenced off with a containment system. I built dog runs for mine and they were in there if I wasn't home and they certainly never roamed at night. Many dogs will roam at night kill livestock and be home in time for you to get up in the morning. Also people have the right to shoot your dog on site if it is on their property, even if it isn't not actively involved in harassing livestock, are you willing to take that risk??? I think allowing a Dobe to roam acerage is totally irresponsible and stupid. Yes Dobes are wonderful dogs, yes they are intelligent. At the end of the day they are dogs and you are dicing with her life should you choose to let her roam free. I would get rid of the chain and tiny dog house and build her something that keeps her safe and is more suitable. I agree entirely with this. We live on 200 acres & would never consider having dogs just run free. They have a secure yard at the back of the house to spend their alone time & do their zoomies. The girl likes to come into the house during the day, & the other guy would much prefer laying around outside in one of the great holes he has dug himself :laugh: But they get to run on the acreage when we take them for walks. If they were allowed to free range, they could be chasing livestock or wildlife while we were not around & we wouldn't know. Just last week, OH was walking them on his own & didn't notice my girl sneeking off following her nose. My heart dropped when he came home without her & she didn't respond to calls We went looking for her & out of the bushes came the most enormous & ugliest dingo cross that I have ever seen. Eventually she came home, but had obviously had a very bad experience with the dingo & was much distressed. I would never chain a dog up unsupervised. I remember the neighbour chaining his dog to a veranda post while he went out. We heard it screaming, but by the time we got there, it had hung itself. That image will stay with me for a long time. They can even get their chain caught around a strong twig & go round & round till they eventually run out of chain & choke. Remember that invisible fences only keep your dog in (maybe) they don't keep other dogs out. Around our back yard we have dog wire & it is topped by an electric fence wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I think allowing a Dobe to roam acerage is totally irresponsible and stupid. Please don't be harsh like this, OsoSwift. I now you are grinding your teeth at a dog being on a chain and the OP is hoping to be able to let her roam free at some stage. But Skyeedavidson has come on here seeking advice and solutions and does love her dog very much. I think a little restraint would ensure that she stays with us and continues to learn. :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikira Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Your girl is adorable, thankyou for sharing her photo. Adjusting to country life is a challenge, and I appreciate that you are trying to decide on a system you can all live with. We live on 5 acres, and this is fully securely fenced. However we would never think of allowing our dogs (border Collie and Jack Russell), free reign. We allow fully supervised roaming in the winter, as we have very good reason to fear snakes in summer. We built a fence around our back yard that is their yard, and this has full access to the house. This works brilliantly for us as our dogs thrive on human companionship, and the closer to their "family" they are the happier they are. No barking, destructive behaviour or hissy fits here . It can be expensive to build a fence, but for the safety and peace of mind it allows, it is worth every cent. Maybe look at recyclers, or Gumtree, or Buy swap sell, for cheap materials, put on a bbq and invite some handy friends/family over. You won't regret it, and your girl will love it. Even the smallest yard would allow more freedom than a chain. I am not sure about the area you live in, but the chances of dog theft would reduce so much with a fenced area for when you can't supervise her, and the added bonus would be the security of having a dobe protecting you and the house! The reality is that a lot of farm dogs are chained at times,maybe nothing bad will happen to your dog, but I personally know one that was attacked by the neighbours dog and killed while on chain. Sadly this farmer is still doing the same thing, but then, he calls his dogs his "stock", and treats them as such. I really hope you can find a suitable soluton, but whatever you decide, please keep us up to date with your Dobe. Di Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Is there any reason this gorgeous happy girl cannot sleep indoors with you at night? Unfortunately, with ours, anyway , it is alone outside at night that bad habits are learnt- VERY QUICKLY ! ;) She is lovely - just make sure you do lots and lots of training with her so she is mentally tired, and that you will have excellent vocal control . It only takes a second of distraction to get in a chase mode, or to pick up a bait ( dropped by crows or foxes,maybe) ..or to dash thru inefficient fencing . :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatelina Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I would not risk any dog, but especially not a Dobe roaming unfenced acerage. It is irresponsible. Many dogs will roam at night kill livestock and be home in time for you to get up in the morning. I think allowing a Dobe to roam acerage is totally irresponsible and stupid. Yes Dobes are wonderful dogs, yes they are intelligent. At the end of the day they are dogs and you are dicing with her life should you choose to let her roam free. I would get rid of the chain and tiny dog house and build her something that keeps her safe and is more suitable. Reminds me of a potential home for a rescue dog for a house on a couple of acres on the outskirts of Sydney. I did the house inspection at night and was taken out back to meet their current dog. I wasn't that impressed when I asked about the missing kennel and they told me that she just slept on the rug by the back door, and when mentioned that they would need to provide something more substantial for the younger pup they were considering they seemed to dismiss this because 'she'll be right' and there was a boundary fence on the property so it was all good. Anyway it wasn't a very positive meeting and even more so when I went around the house to realise that there was absolutely no fence between the road and their property, and their current dog was free to roam everywhere, except chose to hangout by the back door and not being let inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) She is a beautiful looking girl, and good on you for coming in and asking for advice. Personally, I'd build her a dog run, or make a temporary yard attached to the house. It's quite easy and not really expensive, a good dog run ensures she is safely contained when you aren't home, protects her from roaming dogs/snakes (make it snake proof) and ensures she won't be out chasing stock, which no matter how well trained a dog is, unless it's a LGD (maremma etc) then most of them will. Ebay is your friend, as is Gumtree or similar if you want fencing panels or a purposely built dog run. THe beauty of this is it is temporary, you can pack it up and take it with you, or move it around to suit the seasons. I think the members on this forum are a little passionate about not chaining dogs, purely because of the experiences they've witnessed, or seen, heard about. Chaining can be quite dangerous, so many dogs have caught themselves up in it, lost limbs, dogs can wander onto the property and attack your girl, she can be stolen (this would be a huge worry for me) bitten by a snake, can break the collar, etc etc. Whereas a run can be locked, a yard secured, etc etc. I'm sure she appreciates the off lead exercise when supervised to run around the property, but free roaming with an invisible containment system is an accident waiting to happen as well. Where does the Rotty pup stay during the day? We need more piccies too of your beautiful girl. :D ETA: Something like this can be secured nicely http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/dog-run-/251498586817?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item3a8e7be2c1 bit of shade cloth, kennel, enclose the roof with shade cloth etc. or this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/chicken-coop-dog-run-/111320626975?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item19eb39f71f Just a few ideas Edited April 7, 2014 by **Caz** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm not sure this would be substantial enough but could you try some extra tall star pickets with chicken wire running around it? It would be cheap and you could get a decent sized yard out of it which might allow for a larger Kennel. It might be the angle in the photo but it doesn't look like your girl can stretch out on her side through the night if she didn't want to be curled up. Good luck finding a solution for your lovely girl :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm not sure this would be substantial enough but could you try some extra tall star pickets with chicken wire running around it? It would be cheap and you could get a decent sized yard out of it which might allow for a larger Kennel. It might be the angle in the photo but it doesn't look like your girl can stretch out on her side through the night if she didn't want to be curled up. Good luck finding a solution for your lovely girl :) you reminded me - if there is not enough headroom now - the kennel is simply too small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) I think allowing a Dobe to roam acerage is totally irresponsible and stupid. Please don't be harsh like this, OsoSwift. I now you are grinding your teeth at a dog being on a chain and the OP is hoping to be able to let her roam free at some stage. But Skyeedavidson has come on here seeking advice and solutions and does love her dog very much. I think a little restraint would ensure that she stays with us and continues to learn. :) :) I don't have an issue with dogs being tethered persay - our working dog is tethered at night and when we are not home, I do have an issue with guarding breeds being tethered more. However I have a huge issue with a Dobermann of any age roaming a rural property with livestock and I stand by what I said. It may be harsh but it is reality. I have owned Dobes, I own livestock and have lived on farms all my life, I have had livestock mauled, I have worked for many many years in Veterinary hospitals, I have seen what happens when dogs roam. You may think I am being harsh, but I am hoping that it will make people sit back and really think about it. I have no doubt that this particular dog and many others are wonderful companions and very well trained. At the end of the day they are dogs. Left to their own devices roaming farm land they will more often than not create their own entertainment. Quite possibly there is no malice intended, tell that to the owner of the ponies with their throats ripped open because a dog of that size decided to go out for a play. I do believe in this instance I am more than well qualified to have sound knowledge in what can and will go wrong. I have seen it, I have lived it. My dogs were exceptionally well trained and behaved. I spent hours and hours with my dogs, training my dogs and having fun. They are dogs, not robots, when I am not there I cannot and do not know exactly what they are up to. So call me harsh, I call it reality. Edited April 7, 2014 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Oso- I have also seen GSPs and labs chasing /killing stock - yes, it happens , and is so sad for the owners of both dogs and stock animals our koolies are all on chains at night for that reason - 99/100 they do not chase anything ..BUT ... it has happened when they start watching /playing - and it all gets serious There are also accidents waiting to happen ... No one left on patrol here except the oldies ( those over 12) at night . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikira Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I agree that even the best trained dogs sometimes "lose it". Our Jack Russe4ll was very well socialised with livestock and was good with them- except once, when we had just moved out of town, and he escaped and chased the neighbours pregnant cattle through a fence. It was the hardest convertstion we have ever had, apologising and telling him if he wanted Tip destroyed he was within his rights to ask us to do this..... My heart was in my mouth as I waited for his reply. Thankfully he was a dog lover and has since turned into a good friend, but our dog did cross the line and could have lost his life over it. Needless to say none of our dogs have ever escaped to chase stock again, and Tip didn't show any interest in them afterward either! It can happen with all breeds.... once could be enough Di Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 So call me harsh, I call it reality. I totally understand where you are coming from. However, what if the person you want to understand that reality is no longer around to learn because of being flamed when she didn't understand the consequences of what she was doing?The best teacher in the world won't make a scrap of difference if there is no one to listen to her/him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 So call me harsh, I call it reality. I totally understand where you are coming from. However, what if the person you want to understand that reality is no longer around to learn because of being flamed when she didn't understand the consequences of what she was doing?The best teacher in the world won't make a scrap of difference if there is no one to listen to her/him . So you think that's flaming, sure okay. Well I will get back to reality, anyone who wishes to keep playing with their unicorns may carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) I think allowing a Dobe to roam acerage is totally irresponsible and stupid. Please don't be harsh like this, OsoSwift. I now you are grinding your teeth at a dog being on a chain and the OP is hoping to be able to let her roam free at some stage. But Skyeedavidson has come on here seeking advice and solutions and does love her dog very much. I think a little restraint would ensure that she stays with us and continues to learn. :) :) I don't have an issue with dogs being tethered persay - our working dog is tethered at night and when we are not home, I do have an issue with guarding breeds being tethered more. However I have a huge issue with a Dobermann of any age roaming a rural property with livestock and I stand by what I said. It may be harsh but it is reality. I have owned Dobes, I own livestock and have lived on farms all my life, I have had livestock mauled, I have worked for many many years in Veterinary hospitals, I have seen what happens when dogs roam. You may think I am being harsh, but I am hoping that it will make people sit back and really think about it. I have no doubt that this particular dog and many others are wonderful companions and very well trained. At the end of the day they are dogs. Left to their own devices roaming farm land they will more often than not create their own entertainment. Quite possibly there is no malice intended, tell that to the owner of the ponies with their throats ripped open because a dog of that size decided to go out for a play. I do believe in this instance I am more than well qualified to have sound knowledge in what can and will go wrong. I have seen it, I have lived it. My dogs were exceptionally well trained and behaved. I spent hours and hours with my dogs, training my dogs and having fun. They are dogs, not robots, when I am not there I cannot and do not know exactly what they are up to. So call me harsh, I call it reality. I don't think you are being Harsh OS I think you are being very realistic & any one who doesn't agree obviously doesn't live in a farming community. Any straying dog in my district runs the risk of getting a bullet, unless it is recognised by the farmer, & even then they are reluctant to give the dog owner a warning, cause if anything happens to their dog, that farmer gets the blame & there can be some pretty wild people living out in the bush Edited April 7, 2014 by sheena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Any straying dog in my district runs the risk of getting a bullet, unless it is recognised by the farmer, *nods* We felt bad once - there was a pig dog wandering - still had his breastplate on . We tried food , and patience , but could not catch him .. and after 24 hrs , he was shot . Next morning the owner arrived to look for his dog he took back a body in a blanket , sadly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I think a couple of you are being a bit silly and, dare I say it, self righteous :) . For sure, many of us have been around for a long time and know all the dangers and pitfalls that face roaming dogs anywhere, not just in farming land. And we've heard lots of your stories about " the neighbours dog being shot" - --- it seems to me some of you revel in your shooting stories. WOW !!!! Big brave frontier people :laugh: :laugh: However, there are ways and means. Where is Skyeedacidson now, I wonder. Hopefully she is still reading this, but she would have been better served by telling her what dangers are there without calling her stupid. I certainly don't play with unicorns and, frankly OsoSwift, saying silly things like that does you no credit and certainly doesn't make your arguments any more persuasive. There are as many "wild" (substitute ignorant shall we?) people living in the city as are in the bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I think a couple of you are being a bit silly and, dare I say it, self righteous :) . For sure, many of us have been around for a long time and know all the dangers and pitfalls that face roaming dogs anywhere, not just in farming land. And we've heard lots of your stories about " the neighbours dog being shot" - --- it seems to me some of you revel in your shooting stories. WOW !!!! Big brave frontier people :laugh: :laugh: However, there are ways and means. Where is Skyeedacidson now, I wonder. Hopefully she is still reading this, but she would have been better served by telling her what dangers are there without calling her stupid. I certainly don't play with unicorns and, frankly OsoSwift, saying silly things like that does you no credit and certainly doesn't make your arguments any more persuasive. There are as many "wild" (substitute ignorant shall we?) people living in the city as are in the bush. No don't substitute "ignorant" for "wild". I meant "wild". Yes I am sure,(if you say so), that you have people living in the suburbs that would shoot some of your cows or wait behind a bush with a piece of 4 x 2 to knock your brains out, just because they suspect it may have been you that shot their dog because it broke it's chain & was wandering 5 kilometres from home & was chasing your stock. No-one is calling the OP stupid, just being realistic about what can happen if you chain your dog up unsupervised, or let it free range in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 No-one is calling the OP stupid, Yes, some one was :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) I did not call the OP stupid, maybe you should go back and read again. I said allowing a Dobermann to roam free was irresponsible and stupid. As the OP is yet to do that how can I be calling her stupid. As for shooting things. I do not own a gun, I choose not to have them. If I need an animal humanely shot I get my BIL to come and do it. I have had probably a dozen dogs show up on this farm over the years. None have been shot. They have been caught, contained and either their owners found or handed over to the rangers. However should I find one in with my ewes/lambs etc they will not leave the farm alive. I fail to see how presenting facts is seen as aggressive! I presented facts and then gave my opinion to do that would be irresponsible and stupid - a statement I will stand by. Unicorns were mentioned as it seems many like to live in their own bubble, not reality. I also believe to place your dog in that situation is just unfathomable. If it all goes arse up, your dog is dead or badly injured for something entirely preventable. Where is the sense in that? I think far too much of my dogs to intentionally put them in that situation. Edited April 8, 2014 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 No-one is calling the OP stupid, Yes, some one was :) See my previous comment and tell me exactly were I called the OP stupid????? If you find it I will apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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