SwaY Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 READ here A sample of the article.. Blaming me for the death of shelter dogs is like blaming a parent for the death of orphans in Uganda because she chose to have a baby through pregnancy, rather than adopt one. I have never surrendered an animal in my life. I have never caused the death of a dog in all my life. So why don’t you focus your ire on the people who did– the people who dumped those dogs at the shelter. They are the ones who left those dogs to die. Not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 The good registered breeders who: .raise their dogs/puppies in well soclalised, home-style situations, .home their puppies carefully & with good advice, . & who take back puppies when something goes wrong, actually PREVENT the dumping of dogs as they lower the risk factors which lead to dumping. Look at the research. It's not a competition between shelter dogs & registered-breeder sourced dogs, it's a case of what can be done which will lead to less dumping of dogs. So I have no problem in people adopting either or both. But there is a problem if it's reduced to a maths equation that doesn't stack up in the big picture... adopt a 'breeder' dog & a shelter dog dies. No... what makes a shelter dog die are risk factors which need to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Wow, offensive and insulting. Yes I rescue shelter dogs. And do breed rescue, and own a PB. I don't hate dogs. and I don't want your cat gone. "Irresponsible owners kill shelter dogs" was largely debunked years ago. Except on FB I suppose, where most of this stupid slanging match happens. By the time I got to the bottom bit about us all working together ... it didn't seem that was the point of the whole article. In fact it highlighted the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I have never understood the mentality that if you buy a dog from a breeder, you are killing a shelter dog.. Buying a dog from whatever avenue is a personal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Powerlegs I feel like that's referring more to PETA and the likes, I actually read it as very pro-rescue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 READ here A sample of the article.. Blaming me for the death of shelter dogs is like blaming a parent for the death of orphans in Uganda because she chose to have a baby through pregnancy, rather than adopt one. I have never surrendered an animal in my life. I have never caused the death of a dog in all my life. So why don’t you focus your ire on the people who did– the people who dumped those dogs at the shelter. They are the ones who left those dogs to die. Not me. Agree...I have never been able to understand that argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Powerlegs I feel like that's referring more to PETA and the likes, I actually read it as very pro-rescue! Really? I couldn't get the pro rescue bit. It just sounded aggro to those that are working to get dogs desexed and safe from harm. Like if you want people to adopt then you're anti breeder. I do want people to look at rescue dogs, there is some amazing dogs waiting for homes. And I do want people to desex their pets. Anyway I actually get it from both sides. How very dare I rescue purebreds when shelter dogs die (I actually all-breed rescue as well) and why do I do thorough assessment of dogs and homes while pound dogs die; are both favourites with the keyboard 'activists'. Then you have my MDBA membership which I got slammed for as well. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneLover233 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 So well written! I have a friend who "brags" that she's never paid for an animal, she's only ever taken in those in need that were going to get dumped at a shelter etc. She can't see both sides of the story. Some people just need to get off their high horse and see that there is nothing wrong with buying from ETHICAL breeders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I don't think she's being negative about rescue or rescue dogs in general, the following quote explains for me who she's aiming at: "I do not ever want to live in a world without dogs. What a terrible place that would be, yet so many professed animal lovers are campaigning through shaming to create just such a world. Because thats what it means when you say things like adopt dont shop, dont breed while shelter dogs die, and people who buy dogs from breeders should be ashamed of themselves." I'm not sure how effective it would be in changing anyone's mind about the issue though. Edited April 3, 2014 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Without good breeders our favourite breeds of dog would become extinct and then we'd be bitching about that. It's not a competition between the two. For me it is always about reducing the dog numbers that fall into that higher risk of abandonment/abuse category. On one side of that is puppy farmers, BYBers and unwanted litters and the other side is people who buy these dogs without a clue on whether it is the right dog for them or understanding/care for how their money is continuing the whole sorry cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Just wondering - is this discussion focussing on the wrong ends of the cycle. Would it be better for dogs if all the really positive energy here was devoted to people who have dogs and ensuring that they are the best possible owners they could be and not get to the point where dogs are dumped? Regardless of where they come from or how they get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I have never understood the mentality that if you buy a dog from a breeder, you are killing a shelter dog.. Buying a dog from whatever avenue is a personal choice. Of course it is. It is a bit like telling someone who is buying apples that they should be supporting orange growers . So stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 It's not a competition between shelter dogs & registered-breeder sourced dogs, it's a case of what can be done which will lead to less dumping of dogs. We live in a very adversarial society, unfortunately. Something goes wrong, there MUST be someone to blame. A system doesn't work in some areas, the whole system is wrong, throw it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I have never understood the mentality that if you buy a dog from a breeder, you are killing a shelter dog.. Buying a dog from whatever avenue is a personal choice. Of course it is. It is a bit like telling someone who is buying apples that they should be supporting orange growers . So stupid. Good analogy DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) Just wondering - is this discussion focussing on the wrong ends of the cycle. Would it be better for dogs if all the really positive energy here was devoted to people who have dogs and ensuring that they are the best possible owners they could be and not get to the point where dogs are dumped? Regardless of where they come from or how they get there. I think that's one side of things - somehow educating and encouraging owners to build their own knowledge and make use of the resources available to them to 1. Decide if they should even have a dog at all 2. Pick the right dog for them, wherever it comes from and 3. Understand what will really be required to make sure the dog continues to suit what they need and want throughout its life. Another side is trying to somehow reduce the number of randomly bred dogs who have health or behavioural issues inherited when a mating and raising of pups (including early socialisation and adequate time with mum and litter mates before going to a home) is done either without thought at all or with a focus on something other than producing animals genuinely suitable for wherever you send them off to. There are plenty of dogs out there born with a predisposition towards (or guarantee of) having issues that make it very difficult for the average pet owner - as in someone who wants a fairly easy to manage pet dog that can fit into the household, interact with other humans and animals in society without hassle, not escape and destroy things - to manage. I don't really feel it's entirely Average Joe Petowner's fault if the cute puppy they buy from the pet shop or Gumtree or the friend down the road (because that's where they thought you looked for puppies, and a friend had one and it's great, and they were told mum and dad were great dogs, and no one else wanted them and we didn't want them to go to the pound, and we''ve had the breed before but this one's different etc etc etc) turns out to actually have strong resource guarding tendencies or an instinct to bite first, ask questions later with other dogs or wariness of strangers and, being average pet owners, they don't realise and don't have the knowledge to work on these things before the puppy gets big enough and rehearses the behaviour enough to become risky. In those cases I think it's safer for the dog to end up somewhere where it will be properly assessed and tough decisions made if necessary than to be passed from home to home unable to manage it. I'm sure plenty of the irresponsible or unethical breeders and people whose pets just get pregnant and have puppies which they sell or give away, have no more idea about the consequences for the pups down the track in those situations, or if they do they don't care, however if the dog had not been bred in the first place it wouldn't be anyone's issue. ETA - don't get me wrong, I'm also well aware that there are plenty of people out there who just say it's too much effort, the dog is a pain, it's too naughty, it's not cute anymore, it should just know not to steal a roast chook of the bench (yep, someone really said that about a dog they'd had for 3 months and didn't want anymore) when really all the dog needs is a little bit of effort from the right people. Edited April 3, 2014 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Last night a close friend of mine finally asked me why people should bother buying dogs from breeders. Her belief was that you only got a dog from a breeder if you wanted to show and she assumed that meant these types of dogs cost a lot. She felt that only left shelter dogs if you didn't care about breed and pet shops or BYB's if you wanted a specific breed. She was of the belief that dogs from these sources were pure because they were being advertised as so. She didn't understand the difference between a papered dog and one where the breeder just says it is pure. This all makes me sad. She is an intelligent person who has fostered for the RSPCA for years and has taken in an ex puppy farm dog. One of her own dogs came from a neighbour who simply bred her two 'pure breds'. Not sure about the other but it is also a swf with terrible skin allergies. Maybe most people just don't want to know the truth until they are ready to deal with it? I always assumed she knew the same things as me and maybe she has always been too embarrassed to ask? Given the breeds of dogs she has I am now thinking she has no clue about BSL either. Why would she? So from now on I will not simply be forwarding all those rescue and anti BSL messages on FB - I will be explaining how I feel and why in the hope it shares some knowledge and starts others thinking in more depth about it too. I actually got the opportunity to do so this morning. There is a pic circulating on FB of a beagle puppy with a broken leg sitting in a pet shop window. It is being treated with soft bandages and was sporting a cone of shame. Staff didn't know if it was getting any pain meds. It was still on display to be sold like that and it would probably be tugging on some person's heart strings. I was able to use this image as the difference between buying from a pet shop and a good breeder. A good breeder would have that 'baby' confined in a quiet home environment, under vet care and receiving pain meds if needed. It would not be sold in that condition. It would be vet checked before being cleared for its new home. Once healed the injury would be disclosed to the new owner. The price would reflect the overall quality of the puppy and its future purpose (it may no longer be show worthy or it might be a working dog). Matching with the right new home would still occur, factoring in this injury if there were ongoing ramifications to it. But the pet shop had that sick baby on public display able to be picked up by anyone who felt sorry for it. The soft bandage looked like a freaking tea towel. Retail staff rather than skilled dog breeders or vet staff caring for it and assessing its pain and recovery. As little money as possible being spent on the 'product' so as not to reduce the profit margin too much. Puppy probably slightly discounted like other damaged goods to ensure a quick sale, with any future complications or veterinary care from this break being at the expense of the new owners. No-one in the pet shop is going to care who buys it as long as someone does and it isn't sitting in the window like that for too long. I was also able to add that healthy beagle puppies from a registered breeder are currently available through DOL for $900 as I'm sure the pet shop would be selling their beagle puppy for the same price or perhaps more. Maybe that is the type of info that is needed out there to challenge people's assumptions and get them asking questions? Certainly all my animal loving friends were horrified that a puppy with a broken leg was in a shop window but they never said why it felt wrong to them. It is wrong to me because it is not necessary. A living, companion animal is not 'shop stock'. It is not suitable for farming en masse. And you don't get what you pay for. The pet shop in question has been reported to the RSPCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 The entire 'adopt don't shop' argument that rescue and AR whacktivists perpetuate is the same one as getting a dog from a breeder kills a shelter dog. And apparently, it's okay for rescue to get up in often hysterical arms about people getting dogs from breeders but as soon as those people fight back, it's offensive and insulting to rescuers. Thankfully, IRL, I don't come across people who want dogs extinct (the logical end of adopt don't shop). I heard someone talking about cute oodles at work recently but when I listened some more it was more of an 'hybrid vigour is a crock of shit' argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 READ here A sample of the article.. Blaming me for the death of shelter dogs is like blaming a parent for the death of orphans in Uganda because she chose to have a baby through pregnancy, rather than adopt one. I have never surrendered an animal in my life. I have never caused the death of a dog in all my life. So why don’t you focus your ire on the people who did– the people who dumped those dogs at the shelter. They are the ones who left those dogs to die. Not me. great article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyda62 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) "And apparently, it's okay for rescue to get up in often hysterical arms about people getting dogs from breeders but as soon as those people fight back, it's offensive and insulting to rescuers". I don't know what rescuers you deal with Sheridan. After 6 years of working in the rescue industry, I have never known a single person to ever "get up in hysterical arms" about anyone getting a dog from a breeder. At the end of the day, it doesn't make a lot of difference to me where a person gets a dog from as long as it is cared for the way it should be. No person should be made to feel bad about their dog because of where it was sourced from if they are doing the "right thing" for that animal. My beautiful girl who is now 10 years old came from a pet shop. That doesn't make me a bad person, it just means at the time I was uneducated about the plight of pet shop puppies. I work in a shelter full of amazing dogs 5 days a week. My next dog however is going to be a particular breed from a breeder and I know with 100% confidence not a single person I work with is going to be hysterical about it. Edited April 6, 2014 by spyda62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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