Any Advice Appreciated

[Pawprints]

I am desperately seeking any advice or tips from others who have dealt with very fearful dogs.

I am struggling at the moment with my rescue dog. I have had her 2 months and she was from a puppy farm.

She is fearful of me and has been since day one.

I admit she has improved somewhat (at least comes to the door and has stopped hiding under the deck) however we have stalled and I am wondering what I can do from here.

I largely spend my time ignoring her and not even looking at her. She really is just a dog in my house whom I am ignoring as she finds my voice, eye contact and presence scary. I am remaining calm and controlled and spending time with my other well adjusted and happy dog.

She will take food from my hand however ONLY in the kitchen/lounge. She will not take a lamb shank or treat from my hand outside at all and runs off.

She will walk on the lead really well and will take treats from me whilst walking however this is only if I can catch her to put the lead on. I have to wait until she gets in her crate before I can corner her to put the lead on. Otherwise she stays at home while I walk my other dog.

She will not come inside to her bed or crate but prefers to stand in the open doorway and then keep running off into the backyard. I cant keep having the door open all night as it is getting cold and letting all the mozzies in. So if she will not come inside by 11pm, she sleeps outside.

I have a dog door but I cannot train her to use it as she wont take treats off me and if she sees me the other side of the door trying to entice her, she is scared of me and doesn't want to be near me, hence wont come through.

She will come in rarely and explore around but either quickly runs outside again or she will lay down inside as far away from me as possible. The next day however she seems to have a brain fart and forgets that she slept inside and doesn't want to come inside and is scared.

Im just at my wits end and unsure what to do. Any advice appreciated as I do want this to work but I feel I am at my dog training ability threshold!

[VizslaMomma]

I am desperately seeking any advice or tips from others who have dealt with very fearful dogs.

Im just at my wits end and unsure what to do. Any advice appreciated as I do want this to work but I feel I am at my dog training ability threshold!

Takes courage to come out and say you are so worried.

What I would do, and do it yesterday, is consider a behaviour specialist. It's not a reflection of weakness on your part. Rather you are being proactive in making an effort to help the dog.

From what I have read here, DOLers do have reactive dogs aplenty.

There are several great DOLers who are based in Victoria that may be what you need.

I would just add, I guess you are sure that the dog has no medical issues either? The horror of a puppy farm existence does not get removed easily or quickly.

Would you tell us her breed too, please?

[Pawprints]

Many thanks. I do not feel a failure or anything as I have done what I can do. I just need guidance on how to proceed further. She has been medically cleared. She is a beagle. FYI - I am a current beagle owner and have worked with rescue beagles before so I know the breed etc. I have not had an individual dog this bad before.

[VizslaMomma]

I can not imagine the horror of life in a puppy farm.

This poor girl is still reacting to her earlier life.

She's lucky to have found you.

[BC Crazy]

Hi Pawprints,

Just wanted to firstly say good on you for rescuing this girl

I am by no means an expert on this subject but I did rescue an 16 month old extremely fearful, damaged & abused Border Collie whom I owned for almost 15 years. He displayed such fearful behaviour I never thought I was going to make progress with him but I did & he turned out to be my heart dog. He was nothing short of wonderful.

You say you have had this girl 2 months? One thing I did find with Redman is that this whole gaining their 'trust' process took a VERY long time. A good 12 months before I could just walk up & pat him & for him to be comfortable about that. Without him darting off or shaking in his boots. 3 months for him to take food out of my hand. He was never comfortable inside our home no matter how hard I tried, so I brought him the very best of kennels & he remained an outside dog for the most part. Unless there was a storm or very cold weather then he would go into the garage on his bed. I picked up the garden hose one day after I had owned him for 8 months to wash my car, Redman ran under the house, his 'safe place' & stayed there for 2 days Obviously he'd been beaten with one in his previously tortured life. He never ended up going through our dog door we had installed either. He hated it. These are just a few things that I remember but there were tonnes of episodes where I was left totally gob smacked by his reaction. I think it also comes down to excepting that they may not do things other dogs don't think twice about. I also found walking / swimming him helped him gain self confidence & also helped relieve stress. We did that daily. He too wasn't happy about collars/leashes being put on but I just approached this slowly but matter -a- factly. He got used to it eventually.

So you have to be in this for the long haul as it can take forever & you can have a really promising day where you make fantastic progress with her & the very next day she may revert straight back to how she was when you first got her. Remember this girl has been through loads of neglect & no socialization usually. I just took everything I wanted to teach him at his pace. As soon as I saw signs of retreat or stress I backed off. Other times when I really knew all he need was a little encourage I gave it to him & I would push him mentally. You really have to read her & learn to understand her. I used to watch Redman for ages without him knowing, trying to figure what made him tick. But when you finally 'win them over' it is certainly worth every single moment of effort :)

Hope I have been of some help. Good luck with her. Keep us posted.

[Loving my Oldies]

Im just at my wits end and unsure what to do. Any advice appreciated as I do want this to work but I feel I am at my dog training ability threshold!

How truly sad that the poor little dog can't understand she can put all her fears behind her.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps you and your family aren't the home for her?? Just rolling thoughts over in my head and that is not in any way a criticism - on the contrary.

There have been lots of stories on DOL, pounds sites, rescue sites of dogs being surrendered because they and this that or the other thing and when they go to a new home the unwanted behaviours are never seen. Now we all know that people sometimes bend the truth when they want to surrender an animals, but maybe, in some cases the stories might be true, and just going to a new home with different vibes, different ways of doing things, does have the desired impact on the dog.

Look at the way suppposedly recalcitrant dogs behave with an experienced handler. Totally diferent dog a lot of the time.

It is just a thought and may be totally wrong. I know what it is to adopt a dog who is just too damaged to bring through

[BC Crazy]

Working with an extremely damaged dog is very difficult & no 2 are the same. How do you go out in the backyard with her? Can you 'reach' her better out there mentally I mean? I had far better progress outdoors, just sitting there together.Just got a bit closer each day. Lots of chatting & vocal encourage on my part also helped.

Can you engage her in anything, like roll a ball across the floor, will she follow it? Just try to engage her in something 'fun' as well may help. Does she like soft toys? Kongs? If you can engage her in something even for a minute at a time it sometimes can help them to soften a bit.

Edited April 2, 2014 by BC Crazy

[Guest Ams]

I lived with a dog who was the epitome of "Fifty first dates". She was not a rescue and was a catalyst for me ending up in rescue in some ways. She was scared of everything. I started giving everything names so any action would come with a command. "Pop" was one I used a lot as it encompassed anything I was going to do that involved her moving. So if I wanted her on the bed. I'd say "Up". "Pop". and the Pop would mean she eventually knew I was going "hands on".

She ended up with quite a vocabulary of single words for actions like in, out, up, down, lead, collar, ears, eyes, feet, bath, food, lolly (treats), bed and heaps others. I eventually sold my home and moved from inner Brisbane to a rural area as she was never going to cope in the environment of the home I owned when I got her.

In rescue I found if a dog was really fearful then giving them space and then having to try and get close could cause more stress. For me I found it would help to bring them inside on a harness and attach it to me so they had to be with me all the time when I was home. They got outside toilet time (on lead) and exercise time (on lead) so I could reel them in slowly without frightening them. No eye contact necessary, no harsh words, nothing required of the dog at all except be by my side. Having them inside also means a DAP diffuser in the house may help calm them as well.

I rehomed one such girl to an incredibly wonderful family and three years on she is still very timid but she now goes to a dog park and will explore around people's legs which was a massive milestone for both me and her owner. I think we have both shed many a tear over her progress. She has severe vision issues which compound her scaredy-ness. Sadly I'm not friends with that couple any more (my fault, not theirs) so I won't be able to celebrate those little milestones but I know they love her dearly and will treasure her. Finding that home was incredibly lucky as there are few people willing to be that patient and know the dog may never be social or have what we consider normal reactions.

[cavNrott]

What breed is she? Can you engage her in anything, like roll a ball across the floor, will she follow it? Just try to engage her in something 'fun' as well may help. Does she like soft toys? Kongs? If you can engage her in something even for a minute at a time it sometimes can help them to soften a bit.

The OP has said the dog is a Beagle.

[BC Crazy]

Oh sorry missed that cavNott, thanks.

[cavNrott]

Oh sorry missed that cavNott, thanks.

I missed it when I first read the thread too. I picked it up on my second run through.

[RuralPug]

Patience, patience and more patience.

Two months is not a long time with such a damaged dog.

Try to figure out ways so that you are not setting things up for failure - when she is outdoors she doesn't want to come to you if free running but is happy to walk on lead with you, so maybe for the next few months change her free running a little by buying some light but strong builders string line or similar and attaching to her collar when she is in the yard. Of course she could chew through it, but you are not trying to tether her but simply using it to reel her gently in towards you rather than you chasing her, or her ignoring your requests to come.

You need to have enough control to be able to establish a routine if at all possible (sometimes it won't happen, but if you can impose a routine at least 75% of the time on her at this stage, things will settle down a lot faster). She will feel much safer and settled with a regular routine.

The other thing to remember is try never to make a drama of anything. I'm not quite sure how to get this across, but even though you are trying not to trigger fear in her by ignoring her, I think it is better to be accepting rather than ignoring. No hard stares of course, but chatter away to her and do glance her way frequently - you want her to pick up "acceptance" vibes rather than "Ignoring" vibes, if that makes sense. And be as relaxed as possible around her, your anxiety about her anxiety could be a sort of feedback loop. Even dogs that have not had a lot of human interaction will pick up tension in body language and tone of voice.

And have a little faith in yourself, too! You are probably doing better already than most people in the same situation!

[Pawprints]

Thank you guys.

I had a session with a behaviourist/trainer this morning and have some homework to do lol

She has come a long way in 2 months but I guess it is very hard to see when you are so close to the situation. I am also out of my depth so feeling like I am not doing things right and also having to deal with the 'rejection' of her at times which is hard and something I have not experienced before. I believe I am need of some training myself to get my mind right about this! Its been a very steep learning curve for me too so I think I need to give myself a break.

I am so desperate to make her feel comfortable and to help her gain confidence in her that I think it is coming across in a bad way to her.

[VizslaMomma]

Thank you guys.

I had a session with a behaviourist/trainer this morning and have some homework to do lol

I am so desperate to make her feel comfortable and to help her gain confidence in her that I think it is coming across in a bad way to her.

It's like having a human baby that is full of colic and not settling correctly.

As the human/carer it becomes difficult to maintain the effort. Likewise, when we are hoping beyond hope to help a dog yet hit brick walls.

I think you are going on the right track. Both of you need guidance!!! And your seeking that shows you are truly trying to be leader.

Small steps ahead. Be kind to yourself first & foremost.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

2 months is not enough time, many of these traumatised dogs are still improving a year later - I speak from experience.

It's a tough situation to cope with and the improvements are likely to be very slow and minimal to you but giant leaps for the dog. I'm sure you will get there, particularly now you've had some help. it's only natural to try and give the dog a lot of love but that can also be quite overwhelming for the dog and make things worse.

Wishing you lots of luck!

Edited April 8, 2014 by Her Majesty Dogmad

[Aidan3]

I would definitely consider speaking with your vet or a veterinary behaviourist about medication.

The single best behaviour modification for a dog like this is to teach them to touch a target with their nose or paw using clicker training. I have a client travel two hours every week because of the massive changes we've been able to effect using target training.

[Leah82]

I've had my Sarah for nearly and year now after being rescued from a puppy farm (I can't believe it's been that long). She was considered to be a pretty good case when I got her and even now I'm still seeing improvement. We're lucky that she bonded very quickly to me and our other dog, we often say she uses me and Collie as her confidence as she's always a lot more confident when we're around. She has been quite fearful of my husband although strangely is ok around many other men, we're only now just seeing an improvement there and this morning Sarah raised her head and wagged her tail when OH walked past the dog bed as if to say come and pat me - so of course he obliged.

Sarah still doesn't like to be pressured and things work best when I'm completely relaxed otherwise she'll jump around just out of arms reach if for example I need to put her in the crate for whatever reason.

How does your new girl behave around your existing dog? I found Collie to be a big help in helping Sarah as she'll mostly just follow him around and rarely goes through a doorway before him.

Basic clicker training with lots of treats also helped her to get excited around me and OH, if you can get their focus on something else they are not focused on their fear.

Other than that, best of luck with her. The most frustrating thing of all is they can pick up on your frustrations which makes the process a lot harder. Hopefully you can come up with a system of her being inside most of the time and going outside to toilet and then being able to come back in again, especially as the weather is getting colder. I've had many nights of dragging myself out of bed to let Sarah inside as she often won't go through the doorway with my OH on the other-side on the door.

Another thing that I've heard can be helpful is to leash your new girl to your existing dog. This will be less stressful than leashing her to you but it means she's forced to be in your company rather than being afraid in the backyard. Being able to run away from whatever they are afraid of is rewarding in itself so it's hard to get them out of the habit

[Brandiandwe]

I can't help with the training but if you go to the Greytalk website and do a search for threads on Tidbit, they tell the loooong story of a very spooky and skittish hound. It took nearly a year of living at the Magic Foster House, but the changes are documented there, so it's a story of hope, patience and eventual success.