Jogger Attacked By Dogs

[BoxerB]

I agree, BoxerB, with all you say, except with the emboldened bit. It is the responsibility of us all to be aware of where we are, what we are doing, etc etc. Unfortunately, those of us who are aware the our dogs depend on us for their safety, most often have to be aware of the lack of care and knowledge of those around us. People are not aware a lot of the time and, if they are, don't care about others.

When I lived in another part of Sydney, there were parks where pathways were shared with bikeriders, and I can assure you, they could be and were vicious, many of them believing 100% that their wants were the only consideration. I saw lots of near misses and kept a sharp eye on them for my own and my dogs' safety. On a few occasions, I was yelled at to get my f**king dogs off the pathway, and another time in another park, a rider did actually run over one of my dogs. Luckily he wasn't hurt. But she just kept riding with no apology nothing.

I actually agree with that, and don't get me started on cyclists :)

What i was trying to say was that, an oncoming person would have no idea that my dog loves to play and sometimes that can mean in an over-exited state he will jump up to say hello. Therefore its up to me and me only to ensure i never put a member of the public and my dog in that situation. Once he's trained out of it, he can say hello. Until then he's by my side.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I have to agree with BoxerB

I wish more people were dog savvy. It would make my life easier. But I assume that people are pretty much going to act as if my dog is perfect and even up for a pat, and a squeezy hug and a poke in the eyes from their toddler and I have to protect my dog from that.

But while many joggers have experience with dogs chasing them and even having a bit of an ankle tap (most herding breeds are keen on this)... not many get head butt or bitten in the face. It's entirely up to the dog owner to know how their dogs deal with oncoming runners on "narrow" paths and prevent their dogs from doing anything stupid even if that means wrapping their leads around the nearest fence pole.

I 100% blame the dog walker for this attack. Not the dogs and not the jogger.

[VizslaMomma]

I have to agree with BoxerB

I wish more people were dog savvy. It would make my life easier.

Since I was a kid, I was taught to ALWAYS ask the person with a dog permission to SPEAK to that dog, never mind patting it.

Kept me safe for on many an occasion.

But humans & common sense do not always mix.

[Loving my Oldies]

But humans & common sense do not always mix.

Never a truer word . . . .

I was thinking about this thread and how come people have "blamed" to a certain extent the jogger for not keeping her distance.

There are a lot of arrogant and/or stupid dog walkers out and about who (like many cyclists) believe that rules and regularions are made for other people.

There is a man who walks around here and ALWAYS has his dog off lead. Passed him this morning .

And yesterday, I was exiting a cul de sac with my dogs and a couple with their off lead border collie walked up the top road. I slowewd down to keep my distance, but the allowed their border collie to rush at my dogs. He did this three times before I finally stopped walking and yelled at them to leash their dog. I left it until the third, because I thought the BC was only playing, but on the third rush, I could tell by the body language and look in his eyes that he was getting beyond playing. The man kept on walking and the woman took an inordinantly long time getting the lead on the dog.

And this morning, I picked up several poos left by walkers who think it is beneath them to pick up after their dogs.

So being dog savvy needs to be on both sides, Mrs Rusty Bucket :)

[Akayla]

IMO accidents happen. The most careful and dog saavy can have something go wrong. What it boils down to for me is the owner left and hasnt come forward. No matter whos fault there was a pretty badly injured lady and he left her and took no responsibility. Not very decent of him.

My mum was out late at night once with her small dog when a mans 3 greyhounds broke free and attacked the small dog. Mums hands were caught in the fight and bitten aswell as her knees being knocked out from under her. If it wasnt for the big czech shep the greys probably would have killed her dog. The man eventually got them back and left without a word. That upset her more than anything. She could shrug and say it was an accident but there was no excuse for him leaving a disabled woman knocked down and bleeding on a dark cold night.

Same with this guy. Accident or not he needs to take responsibility.

[Loving my Oldies]

The man eventually got them back and left without a word. That upset her more than anything. She could shrug and say it was an accident but there was no excuse for him leaving a disabled woman knocked down and bleeding on a dark cold night.

It is impossible to fathom what goes on in the heads of people like that man, Akayla.

You mum must have been distraught.

[teekay]

The facts are this regarding dogs IMHO: Given that you can't predict the handler's control or the dog's reactivity levels on approach, my advise for anyone to avoid the pain of a possible attack is to steer around leash range of the dogs in question. Regardless whether or not this dog handler is caught and prosecuted doesn't ease the pain the woman has suffered to her eye and face, but jogging around the dog's leash range would have saved her more than likely. We know that dogs shouldn't be lunging and we know that handler's should have effective control, but if they don't and you don't take preventative measures yourself, these incidents will sadly continue.

Having said that, I can't restrain two GSD's in defence mode effectively, so one person walking two large dogs if something was to happen greatly increases the physical control required to maintain safety.

She is the only victim in this story and it was not her fault.

When an owner knows they can't control their dogs, they are the ones who should be taking these 'preventative measures' you speak of. Expecting people to run in wide circles around every dog they pass just in case they get bitten is ridiculous.

Hazywal, I was wondering the same thing myself.

Gotta say, I don't think Amax was saying it was the joggers fault at all, just giving general advice on how to avoid potential injuries.

I know the law says a car has to stop when I am at a pedestrian crossing but I do not presume they are going to. Doesn't matter whose fault it is, I'd rather protect myself and not end up in hospital.

[Amax-1]

Sorry, double post.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Amax-1

[Amax-1]

FFS seriously? You're sticking to your ridiculous spiel about a victim bearing what.... 50% blame because she should have assumed she would be bitten on the face because of some idiot with uncontrollable dogs. Wake up.

The dogs were leashed not running free at large, so why was she so close to the dogs for them to make contact?. The dog handler was initially compliant by having them leashed and what happened from there is what holds my interest given that leashed dogs are technically community safe?.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Amax-1

[melzawelza]

FFS seriously? You're sticking to your ridiculous spiel about a victim bearing what.... 50% blame because she should have assumed she would be bitten on the face because of some idiot with uncontrollable dogs. Wake up.

The dogs were leashed not running free at large, so why was she so close to the dogs for them to make contact?. The dog handler was initially compliant by having them leashed and what happened from there is what holds my interest given that leashed dogs are technically community safe?.

No they are not. Just because a dog is leashed doesn't mean an attack can't happen and be prosecuted/actioned.

Section 13 of the Act in NSW (Which covers dogs being leashed in public) also has this note:

"Note. Just because a dog is not on a lead in an off-leash area, or is secured in a cage or vehicle or is tethered to a fixed object or structure, does not mean that an offence under section 16 is not committed if the dog rushes at, attacks, bites, harasses or chases any person or animal, whether or not any injury is caused."

So even if a dog is tethered somewhere, if it bites someone it is still an attack.

Edited April 5, 2014 by melzawelza

[Loving my Oldies]

The dogs were leashed not running free at large, so why was she so close to the dogs for them to make contact?. The dog handler was initially compliant by having them leashed and what happened from there is what holds my interest given that leashed dogs are technically community safe?.

There are ways and means of expressing yourself, Amax-1. Despite not having been there when the lady was so badly injured, you ask "why was she so close to the dogs." You have no idea and neither does anyone else posting in this thread.

The jogger might have been metres away from the man and his dogs and he was dragged along by them so they could jump up and give the lady some lovin'.

Unless someone knows this woman and can ask her, or has seen a press report where she is saying where she was running in terms of vicinity to the dogs, we don't know.

And as for stating that the dog handler was initially compliant by having them leashed - well that just leaves me . What a good and law abiding man and how awful for him now to face censure. Yeah, right.

[JulesP]

I read that they were on a narrow pathway. It was also 6.30am so would have been darkish, although there were lights on the oval. Quite possible that the dogs acted in a way that they never have before and took the owner by surprise.

[Amax-1]

FFS seriously? You're sticking to your ridiculous spiel about a victim bearing what.... 50% blame because she should have assumed she would be bitten on the face because of some idiot with uncontrollable dogs. Wake up.

The dogs were leashed not running free at large, so why was she so close to the dogs for them to make contact?. The dog handler was initially compliant by having them leashed and what happened from there is what holds my interest given that leashed dogs are technically community safe?.

No they are not. Just because a dog is leashed doesn't mean an attack can't happen and be prosecuted/actioned.

Section 13 of the Act in NSW (Which covers dogs being leashed in public) also has this note:

"Note. Just because a dog is not on a lead in an off-leash area, or is secured in a cage or vehicle or is tethered to a fixed object or structure, does not mean that an offence under section 16 is not committed if the dog rushes at, attacks, bites, harasses or chases any person or animal, whether or not any injury is caused."

So even if a dog is tethered somewhere, if it bites someone it is still an attack.

Could you explain to me how a leashed dog can make contact with someone beyond the range of the leash and furthermore, if someone remains outside of the dog's leash range, how can they be attacked by a restrained dog who can't reach them? The rationale behind the leash is to prevent the nuisance or attack potential of an unrestrained dog at large, that is placing oneself within leash range of a restrained dog contradicts the purpose of restraint when restraint provides the means to allow avoidance of contact with the dog.

There are ways and means of expressing yourself, Amax-1. Despite not having been there when the lady was so badly injured, you ask "why was she so close to the dogs." You have no idea and neither does anyone else posting in this thread.

Exercising GSD's in public for an excess of 30 years, I have had people cross the road to avoid them and had people brush past them and people approach them purposely to pat them when on leash, so I am interested what happened in this incident for a leashed dogs to make contact being the reason I asked the question. Personally when approaching leashed dogs, I keep out of their leash range not knowing their reactivity level to strangers or the control the handler has of their dogs purely for avoidance of the injuries like this woman sustained. It would be a foolish assumption to think that entering the leash range of a restrained dog by default will result in no consequence don't you think??

I read that they were on a narrow pathway. It was also 6.30am so would have been darkish, although there were lights on the oval. Quite possible that the dogs acted in a way that they never have before and took the owner by surprise.

That's a possibility and account for the close proximity perhaps. I have a had a couple of good stable dogs by history take a lunge at someone unexpectedly causing a fast leash action for further restraint.....one was a 4 year old with great exposure to people I thought was bullet proof prior to the lunge....it can happen.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Amax-1

[cavNrott]

Could you explain to me how a leashed dog can make contact with someone beyond the range of the leash and furthermore, if someone remains outside of the dog's leash range, how can they be attacked by a restrained dog who can't reach them? The rationale behind the leash is to prevent the nuisance or attack potential of an unrestrained dog at large, that is placing oneself within leash range of a restrained dog contradicts the purpose of restraint when restraint provides the means to allow avoidance of contact with the dog.

Have you never seen an inept handler being pulled along by a leashed dog, or in this case, two leashed dogs?

edited to fix quote.

Edited April 7, 2014 by cavNrott

[Amax-1]

Could you explain to me how a leashed dog can make contact with someone beyond the range of the leash and furthermore, if someone remains outside of the dog's leash range, how can they be attacked by a restrained dog who can't reach them? The rationale behind the leash is to prevent the nuisance or attack potential of an unrestrained dog at large, that is placing oneself within leash range of a restrained dog contradicts the purpose of restraint when restraint provides the means to allow avoidance of contact with the dog.

Have you never seen an inept handler being pulled along by a leashed dog, or in this case, two leashed dogs?

edited to fix quote.

Yes, it happened to me with 2 GSD's in defence drive and I couldn't restrained them easily and since then I have never walked 2 large dogs together for that reason. With knowledge of that, I tend to give 2 dog handlers greater distance on approach.

[cavNrott]

'Amax-1' Could you explain to me how a leashed dog can make contact with someone beyond the range of the leash and furthermore, if someone remains outside of the dog's leash range, how can they be attacked by a restrained dog who can't reach them? The rationale behind the leash is to prevent the nuisance or attack potential of an unrestrained dog at large, that is placing oneself within leash range of a restrained dog contradicts the purpose of restraint when restraint provides the means to allow avoidance of contact with the dog.

Have you never seen an inept handler being pulled along by a leashed dog, or in this case, two leashed dogs?

edited to fix quote.

Yes, it happened to me with 2 GSD's in defence drive and I couldn't restrained them easily and since then I have never walked 2 large dogs together for that reason. With knowledge of that, I tend to give 2 dog handlers greater distance on approach.

In which case I don't get why you asked the above quoted question.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

My dog has also been known to take advantage of the arc formed by my arm and about 50cm to 1m of lead - and just launch herself into the air to try to get - usually an animal but whatever it is she wants right now.

So your arm goes from being straight down at your side to straight out in front with another bit of lead and a bit of dog's head at the end of that...

If you've got two dogs launching as described in the report - the handler clearly wasn't prepared and the dogs would have had room to go 2m maybe more especially if it was UP (as described).

I know my dog's launch distance, and that's how far I have to be away from joggers, toddlers if we're going to be properly safe on lead. Mostly she leaves joggers alone but there's some things that set her off and I don't guess right which thing that's going to be.

[Amax-1]

'Amax-1' Could you explain to me how a leashed dog can make contact with someone beyond the range of the leash and furthermore, if someone remains outside of the dog's leash range, how can they be attacked by a restrained dog who can't reach them? The rationale behind the leash is to prevent the nuisance or attack potential of an unrestrained dog at large, that is placing oneself within leash range of a restrained dog contradicts the purpose of restraint when restraint provides the means to allow avoidance of contact with the dog.

Have you never seen an inept handler being pulled along by a leashed dog, or in this case, two leashed dogs?

edited to fix quote.

Yes, it happened to me with 2 GSD's in defence drive and I couldn't restrained them easily and since then I have never walked 2 large dogs together for that reason. With knowledge of that, I tend to give 2 dog handlers greater distance on approach.

In which case I don't get why you asked the above quoted question.

I don't know that the dogs dragging the handler was the case in this matter was it? Whilst it may have been the case, it may also have been that the handler had them by the collar and the jogger was so close to the dogs the handler was unable to prevent contact which makes a difference as to who's at fault.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Amax-1

[melzawelza]

'Amax-1' Could you explain to me how a leashed dog can make contact with someone beyond the range of the leash and furthermore, if someone remains outside of the dog's leash range, how can they be attacked by a restrained dog who can't reach them? The rationale behind the leash is to prevent the nuisance or attack potential of an unrestrained dog at large, that is placing oneself within leash range of a restrained dog contradicts the purpose of restraint when restraint provides the means to allow avoidance of contact with the dog.

Have you never seen an inept handler being pulled along by a leashed dog, or in this case, two leashed dogs?

edited to fix quote.

Yes, it happened to me with 2 GSD's in defence drive and I couldn't restrained them easily and since then I have never walked 2 large dogs together for that reason. With knowledge of that, I tend to give 2 dog handlers greater distance on approach.

In which case I don't get why you asked the above quoted question.

I don't know that the dogs dragging the handler was the case in this matter was it? Whilst it may have been the case, it may also have been that the handler had them by the collar and the jogger was so close to the dogs the handler was unable to prevent contact which makes a difference as to who's at fault.

Not really. There are a few defenses for dog attacks:

16 Offences where dog attacks person or animal

(2) It is not an offence under this section if the incident occurred:

(a) as a result of the dog being teased, mistreated, attacked or otherwise provoked, or

(b) as a result of the person or animal trespassing on the property on which the dog was being kept, or

© as a result of the dog acting in reasonable defence of a person or property, or

(d) in the course of lawful hunting, or

(e) in the course of the working of stock by the dog or the training of the dog in the working of stock.

(3) This section does not apply to a police dog or a corrective services dog.

Just walking close to a dog in public is not enough to be considered that the dog was provoked, or that it needed to defend it's owner.

If your dog gives someone stitches in their face and your excuse to the Council officer is 'but she walked close to us' - good luck avoiding a declaration.

[cavNrott]

'Amax-1' Could you explain to me how a leashed dog can make contact with someone beyond the range of the leash and furthermore, if someone remains outside of the dog's leash range, how can they be attacked by a restrained dog who can't reach them? The rationale behind the leash is to prevent the nuisance or attack potential of an unrestrained dog at large, that is placing oneself within leash range of a restrained dog contradicts the purpose of restraint when restraint provides the means to allow avoidance of contact with the dog.

Have you never seen an inept handler being pulled along by a leashed dog, or in this case, two leashed dogs?

edited to fix quote.

Yes, it happened to me with 2 GSD's in defence drive and I couldn't restrained them easily and since then I have never walked 2 large dogs together for that reason. With knowledge of that, I tend to give 2 dog handlers greater distance on approach.

In which case I don't get why you asked the above quoted question.

I don't know that the dogs dragging the handler was the case in this matter was it? Whilst it may have been the case, it may also have been that the handler had them by the collar and the jogger was so close to the dogs the handler was unable to prevent contact which makes a difference as to who's at fault.

I imagine we are of the opinion that the dogs were on lead because the report stated they were on lead.

It did not state the handler was holding the dogs by their collars. That idea has come right out of left field. If the dogs were on lead as reported we can probably safely presume the handler was holding the other end of the leads.

Are you attempting to blame the victim for this attack? If so, why?