VizslaMomma Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/256315-reacting-when-she-sees-other-dogs/ Just read the above thread. Decided to ask for guidance. Quick background: New puppy, nearly 5 months old male Hungarian Vizsla. Been over 10 years since we had a puppy in the home. TBF, I am only used to check chains. I fully understand matters have changed and do not want hassles with the puppy simply because 'I' am using old methods. The issue is he's a strong little critter, and going to be a bluidy big boy. Should I consider a harness? I can (just) manage him around the grounds. But I want to go further afield. I'm recovering from total knee replacement for both legs & now have a strained shoulder. His father is a tad slack with walking. Ya'll know the energy youngsters have. I want to be as proactive in getting him relaxed to walk. Would a harness or halti work better? We will be doing more lessons soon as well. One good thing, I have actually lost 7 kilos since he joined us. No complaints there. :D Edited March 30, 2014 by VizslaMomma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 if you know how to properly use a check chain and have had success , and are relaxed using that method - you'll get no complaints from me . Check chains in inexperienced and rough/untrained hands can be nasty . What I would suggest is to do HEAPS of work at home ..teach him heel ..get him really keen to stay with you , at your side , learn every little twitch of his, so you know what he's thinking ..and work on that... at home just walk around slowly ...have a toy or favourite treat with you ..and when he is by your side happily .. but not "begging"/jumping he gets praised . No other conversation ;) practice N I L I F ..and make sure "dad" does it too . That way you will have a youngster who watches and understand you much more ..and vice versa . This, to me, is far more important than any physical controlling of a dog's head/body . :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Thanks, persephone Appreciate the response. None of my older dogs ever have had problems with check chains. He will use one for showing. 'Dad' is fine with these chains as well. Actually, the image I have for the not to distant future is that of Huski's avatar................ the dog close by & happy to be there. Reckon that is something good to aim to achieve. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Actually, the image I have for the not to distant future is that of Huski's avatar................ the dog close by & happy to be there. Reckon that is something good to aim to achieve. Hehe, just opened this thread and saw your comment. Thanks VM! Do you have a trainer you are working with at the moment or classes you are going to? Training loose leash walking is not about the tool you use (that just gives you leverage) but understanding how to teach the dog that pulling doesn't get it where it wants to go. What are your goals for your pup? The pic in my avatar is my dog Daisy doing heel work for obedience which I train very differently to loose leash walking. When we are walking down the street she still walks happily next to me but she's calm and relaxed. Whereas in heel work I want a dog that is in a high state of arousal, working in drive with loads of focus and animation. You can have both but they are two very different things and we train them very differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Training loose leash walking is not about the tool you use (that just gives you leverage) but understanding how to teach the dog that pulling doesn't get it where it wants to go. The bolded bit is the important one :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Yep use a chain ,lets face in those good old days you saw far more better behaved dogs . Now with obedience classes insisting on flat collars only we see via the kennels more people giving up walking there dogs because it isn't working the dogs are slipping out & there terrified it may happen out on walks * for many clubs these days its there way or no way Harness i totally hate especially when used on an untrained dog . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 If you have had success use what you know. Things have not really changed there are just more drums being banged these days. Who said it was for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 sorry a bit OT but on the note of check chains in untrained hands... I was calling Didi away from a little Cairn Terrier puppy today at the reserve and they both came running straight at me when the terrier which was running in front of Didi tripped and Didi ran over it because they were going so fast and she couldn't stop. Poor little thing screamed and when it got up it had its little paw stuck in the check chain its owner had left dangling around its neck which is what tripped it The owner still ignored me and walked away as if it were Didi's fault her puppy got hurt but hopefully the little guy's okay/its owner realised why check chains are never to be left on the dog when not training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Can't tell you what a relief it is to get the info on chains. My dream is for Herbie to be a Theraphy Dog. I want to give him as much of a chance he can get to be a Good Canine Citizen. (even without that piece of paper too). Both parents need the guidance to get him there. When we decided to have another dog after Gabor went to the Rainbow Bridge, we selected a puppy with that in mind. Without being morbid, we know our other old boy may not be around much longer. We will look then to having a rescue dog join the family. So there's several considerations with making sure Herbie is trained correctly. Edited March 30, 2014 by VizslaMomma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Definitely nothing wrong with a check chain used correctly though I personally find a properly fitted martingale collar more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 All a harness does is let the dog pull harder unless it is one of the special no pull ones. With a puppy work on training it the right way from the start to walk on a loose lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 VizslaMomma I like the front attach harness - ie the one that attaches on the dog's chest. It is a training tool - not a good idea to leave it on all the time or when the dog is off for a run, just for when you're walking on lead. A harness that attaches behind and between a dog's sholder blades - is akin to a sled dog harness and encourages pulling. I'm not fond of the choke chains - it took two years plus to get my dog to like going for a walk after I ditched that item, and another couple of years before she started looking forward to walks - we use only a flat collar now. But I'd consider a martingale collar with a limited slip chain - if nothing else - it helps prevent escape if the dog decides to pull backwards away from you - my dog never figured out she could escape doing that, she always pulled facing away from me. This is an example of the front attach harness. It's not the only one available but I did use this one. http://www.softouchconcepts.com/ This is an example of a martingale collar. Some have a chain as the restricting loop and some don't. The amount the whole collar can reduce - is limited by the loop which limits the chance of the dog being strangled by it. Still not the best thing for the dog to run around in when you're not training or walking on lead. http://www.blackdog.net.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=84 blackdog also sell front attach harnesses with a front and rear attach point for double lead (no pull) training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Harness. No. I own a big boy of a similar age. A 28kg 5.5 month old pup :p Although I'm training him to be a sled dog, even if I didn't there was no way I could use him in a harness without getting my arm dragged out of it's socket. Even those front attach / no pull ones are just a tool. A strong puller will just pull into those. IMO they're just another tool, like a choke chain. And many people use the harnesses incorectly. The amount of people I see walking with their dogs dragging into haltis or harnesses is just incredible. Use what you're comfortable / knowledgeable with. Choke chain doesn't have to equal negative, you can take heaps of treaats and really reinforce the loose lead walk alongside using the chain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Harness. No. I own a big boy of a similar age. A 28kg 5.5 month old pup :p Although I'm training him to be a sled dog, even if I didn't there was no way I could use him in a harness without getting my arm dragged out of it's socket. Even those front attach / no pull ones are just a tool. A strong puller will just pull into those. IMO they're just another tool, like a choke chain. And many people use the harnesses incorectly. The amount of people I see walking with their dogs dragging into haltis or harnesses is just incredible. Use what you're comfortable / knowledgeable with. Choke chain doesn't have to equal negative, you can take heaps of treaats and really reinforce the loose lead walk alongside using the chain OT but seeing as you mentioned it Esky :D... How big (height/weight wise) do you expect Fritz to get? My little foster pup is allegedly mastiff mix x "bull Arab" - mum (mastiff mix), possibly dad too, actively used in pig hunting. She's 10kgs at 15 weeks and looks quite Dane-ish, but I don't think she'll reach anywhere near that size. Today at the park I met a Dane sized Bull Arab, he seemed big compared to the other "bull Arabs" I've come across and I wondered at the time what size the proper registered Bull Arabs are aiming to be. It doesn't matter at all re. foster puppy, I only ever say she's a bitsa, and will be large, but just curious about the Bull Arab breed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I don't have any issue with a properly used check chain either but i will say that if you are finding the check chain hard for yourself at the moment with your bodgy knee and shoulder a front attaching harness or halti might be a gentler option for YOU. i have a stuffed shoulder and injured it a number of times using a check chain before I threw it away and switched to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 My boys lines, I'm told, average around 27inches tall.. Weight I suppose can vary depending on muscle mass etc- some guys keen their dogs too lean. But anywhere from the mid 30s and I guess up to 50s Not sure what to expect with Fritz, neither of his parents seemed overly bulky. but he's a bit boy already! For comparision Fritz was about a kg a week for quite a while, but seems to have skyrocketed :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thanks Esky :) I think the boy I met today would be around that height, and probably 40ish kgs (totally based on my estimations). He was 12 mths max. Nice dog, foster puppy liked him and instigated chase but a clumsy 10kg 15 week old wasn't quite a match for the big boy :p I didn't ask about his pedigree of course so don't know his background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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