Brain Tumor?

[IGGYZ]

Hello all, firstly a bit of background, our 4 and a half year old staffy, has been a great dog, when we first got her at 8 weeks we had a old dog so she always had a mate, when she was about 3 we lost the old boy to cancer and she coped ok, then suddenly a couple of months ago she started to escape our yard and our neighbour would ring to say she was over there playing with there dogs, thinking she was lonely we started to think about getting another dog, we put plans in place for a new puppy, one day when I was out in the yard with her, she went crazy tring to escape after hearing a gunshot nearby, we live out of town and she had never been bothered by loud noises before, then when we were going away for a couple of days our neighbour rang to say she was over there, thankfully we were only an hour in to our two hour trip and we went home and got her and took her away with us, lucky we were going camping, so taking her was fine, whilst camping some people let of some crackers in the camp and thankfully she was on a lead as she took of like a shot and was terrified, when we got home from camping, we took her to the vet to see if they could figure out what was going on, she seemed to think it was behavioural although I thought it was strange to change so suddenly, she prescribed prozac. We decided to bring her to work with us so she was rarely alone, one day at work the kids were there and they said she was shaking all over, by the time I got over to her she was having a head tremor, I rang the vet and told them I was concerned about her, I also noticed she had two different sized pupils, I mentioned I had also noticed the different sized pupils in the past say six months previously, but stupidly thought it was just the lighting as she was inside at the time, they said just keep an eye on her and see how she goes, i asked to see the vet so they can see her pupils, so we seen the vet a few days later and sure enough the pupils were different, one hardly reacts at all, she really didnt know what was going on and was going to get back to me, in the mean time she had a few more of the head tremor episodes as well as a few funny turns were she just acts strange and a funny little turn were she put her nose into the ground then almost did a head stand, she has also had a couple of times when her mouth appears to be having a seizure, so today the vet nurse rings me and says that they can do a referal to specialist for mri or cat scan, the specialist is about 3 hours away and diagnosis is obviously is very costly, dont get me wrong I dont have a problem spending money on my beloved pets but spending a couple of thousand dollars to confirm what I am pretty sure I already know and reading about so many people speading 10's of thousands of dollars on treatment to still have a devistating outcome, this worries me, we have in the past spent 3,500 dollars to try and save a dog only to have her still passaway, so I guess that is playing on my mind, I guess I am interested to hear from anyone that has dealt with this type of thing and anyone that has any clues as to what maybe going on with our girl, thanks in advance.

[Erny]

Really sorry to hear your story - it's an awful 'place' to be in when you just don't know which way to turn. Yes, it's a lot of money and yes, it's normal to be ok about spending it if you can expect a good outcome.

I don't speak from experience - others here will follow this post I'm sure, with their own stories and you can take what you prefer to take from those.

Personally, I think it is a "crystal ball" matter until and unless you get an MRI done. The MRI should be able to tell you (a) confirmation that it is tumour or not and (b) the specialist should be able to give a reasonable prognosis from that and from there you would be able to make a decision as to whether you proceed or not. But yes - I believe MRI's are exxy too.

I think that's your first step, if you're looking for some definitive direction. Unless you take this, it will just be a guessing game.

Just my thoughts - not based in personal experience. I trust others will be able to be a bit more informative than I am here.

ETA : I had a different case which began with a tumour on the adrenal gland. My girl was being readied for surgery (had to be on certain drugs for a certain number of days before surgery could be done) - it was tricky dicky surgery requiring a team of surgeons, but the prognosis was promising. She threw to seizures a few days before surgery and the specialist Vet at the time very confidently ruled in that the brain was now affected. For my girl, given the complications, running an MRI would have been an academic exercise. I maintained Kal (bhcs) on seizure medication for a few months or so but due to the adrenal gland tumour (which would have eventually erupted causing a dreadful end) I had to make the ultimate choice to give her freedom before such suffering. I'm not suggesting this is the case for your dog - the specialist should be able to help you draw some conclusions/judgements/decisions.

I would at the very least consult with the specialist and let him/her help to guide your thinking.

Again, sorry. My heart goes to you. It's so hard when you don't know a direction to take.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Erny

[Rebanne]

My dog recently had a MRI and the cost was $1500, this was in Melbourne. There were other costs involved, vet consult, day boarding etc.

[JulesP]

Sorry you are in this situation.

I would only only be getting an MRI if there was a chance that there was something else wrong apart from a brain tumor and that thing was fixable. If the vets were fairly sure that it was a brain tumor I wouldn't be doing any further treatment. I've paid a fair bit of money on 3 pets now to get further testing done but in each case the vet didn't really know what was going on and in each case there was a chance that it was a fixable condition.

The being scared might not be related btw. My older dog didn't care about storms at all until her brother died and since then she has been very worried about storms and loud noises. He was quite cool about storms and must have given her confidence.

[essentialdog]

Sorry to hear about your dog. The only way to really know if it's a brain tumour is through an MRI scan. If she does has a brain tumour, another thing you will want to find out is if it is benign or malignant. Brain tumours are often diagnosed after having a seizure and it is common at the onset of a brain tumour for it to reside on one side of the brain. If the tumour is on the left hand side of the brain, you may find impaired function (depending on what part of the brain the tumour is in) on the right hand side of the body or vice versa. If the tumour is in the occipital lobe, you may find vision is impaired. I know for humans, those that have cancer of the brain, 95% die in the first year and although operable, the surgery is only to increase lifespan and not a cure. If the tumour is not cancerous, it can be removed and your dog may live a fairly good quality of life.

I'm sorry for sounding all "science-y" about this, but I've studied neuroscience and wanted to give you as much information about your options if your dog does in fact have a tumour.

Another possibility is your dog may be having adverse neurological side effects from the antidepressants, or the antidepressants are interacting with another medication. Side effects can include tremors, seizures and believe it or not - increased depression! If you decide it is the anti deps and you want to take your dog off it you'll need to speak to your vet and come up with a plan to wean your dog off them.

I really hope your dog is ok and let us know how you go!

[~Anne~]

Such a hard place to be in. I hope you can get some answers. I agree that an MRI and other diagnostics are the only way to determine what is happening.

Encephalitis also comes to mind.

The issue with neurological issues, that seem as progressive as what your dog is suffering, is that often recovery is not possible. So you spend large amounts of money for a diagnoses and not a cure.

Good luck wit whatever decision you make.

[IGGYZ]

Thank you everyone for your replies, a couple of other things I forgot to mention, she has times when she shivers and shakes all over, like she is cold or scared, she sleeps alot, she doesn't seem very happy, like she is really sad all the time, (prehaps a side effect of the medication), her face/lips even look sad, not her happy staffy smile she used to have, she is certainly not herself, her temprement has changed, from being the most placid, nothing fazes dog, even to the point were chickens could eat from her bowl, now she wants to kill the chooks, she is more protective and not as easy going, We along with the vets are pretty sure she has a brain tumor or lesions of some sort, I guess we need to decide whether getting a definate diagnosis is going to help much, hubby is convinced that it wouldn't be worth it, my heart aches......

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I have been through a brain tumour with my Foxie back in 2007.

I didn't have the MRI as it would have cost thousands and wasn't easily accessible either in those days. I did consider it though as my boy was aged about 7.

My vet's advice was ok so if it is a brain tumour, maybe we could remove it but he will not be the same dog.

He wasn't the same dog at the time which is why I'd gone to my vet (and 2 other vets for their opinions). I experienced similar behaviour to what you describe - he'd always been a very happy dog but suddenly he was experiencing periods of shaking, hiding away from everyone and looking miserable. Sometimes the old Wonder dog would appear.

He also had turns, suddenly became aggressive with his canine bestie and finally urinary incontinence. He'd always been a very active dog, jumping around but he began to fall instead of landing where he'd planned.

He bit me 3 times which was all unprovoked and out of character. All of this went on over a couple of months.

I was on the phone to a friend one night when blood curdling noises came from the garden, he was lying in the bushes with his eyes wide open, having a fit.

We were near the end and the next night when he went for my face and nearly got my eye - for no apparent reason, that was it, I knew it was time to let him go.

Your dog is very young to have a brain tumour but it sounds very possible and I would let her go, you need to be ready - I had a great deal of trouble coming to terms with the diagnosis as I adored my boy and the worst part for me was that I'd only had him for 2 years and he'd been terribly abused previously, he'd blossomed in my home.

It seemed so very unfair but sadly life is never fair and we have to do our best for our pets, that's all we can do. I wish you strength and send you a hug.

[IGGYZ]

I am sorry that you went through this, thankfully she hasn't shown any aggression towards any people, she normally loves people and other animals, but as her behaviour has changed so much, I am very mindful of the kids putting there faces near her and how they interact with her incase she snaps, thanks for telling me what you went through.

[persephone]

The only time I have seen brain tumours in dogs ..their temperament changed fairly quickly , they became aggressive ..and one bit a human, completely out of the blue ! these were labs ... youngish , and well socialised etc .

it was confirmed they had tumours .Both were euthanased .

[JulesP]

My parents had to put their Goldie down. He had always been a bit strange but one day he totally turned and attacked my Dad. The vet said that was a brain tumor. He was pretty young.

I would be very careful of your dog now as aggression is very common with brain tumors.

If she is as sad as you say I would be thinking of letting her go. I know it is a horrible thing to have to do.

[Trishm]

I had a doberman years ago, who suddenly attacked one of my cats, they had previously been great friends, then he attacked a friend, and 10 minutes later turned on my husband who he loved.

Sadly she was diagnosed with a brain tumour and pts, but it all happened very quickly in a very short period of time.

I'm sorry for what you are going through.

[IGGYZ]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, she comes to work with me and loves travelling in the car, she is happy to lay at work on her bed during the day although she has had enough by the afternoon and wants to go home, while she has quaility of life I will keep her going, she has good days and bad days, we are becoming familiar with her behaviour indicating that things are not so good, in some ways I guess we are lucky that we can spend almost every day together but this is also not so good as you get to see there off moments more and more, it sounds like alot of people have been down this road before me and I appreciate there stories and what they have been through.

[2boxer]

My old girl was pts for a suspected brain tumor. She started with the head seizures which increased in frequency and duration over a few weeks. She also was increasing scared of loud noises, and towards the end started restless circling. I chose not to do an MRI as I didn't feel that a diagnosis would change anything for her. It was a hard decision but thinking back and looking at short videos I'd taken to show the vet, I do wish I'd made the decision earlier than I did

I hope you enjoy the time you have left with your girl, give her a hug from me x

[essentialdog]

This post is making me cry. I wish you all the best for you and your dog IggyZ and cannot begin to imagine what you have all been through. Could you speak to the vet about taking her off the anti depressants? I am seriously hoping her behaviour is a side effect of the anti depressants. It may be worth a try.

[kayla1]

My 14yr old dog has a suspected brain tumour or lesion. Fortunately she hasn't shown any sign of aggression though.

I chose not to proceed with MRI because in her case it won't change the treatment - she is on medication already, and because she is really showing her age now, I won't be putting her through major surgery regardless of the MRI results. However if it was one of my younger dogs, I'd be getting an MRI done for a proper diagnosis and going from there.

Sorry you are going through this.

[SueM]

Just reading the possible side effects could your dog be having a bad reaction? But I am sure your vet would of already discussed the possibility.

Side Effects of Prozac For Dogs

As with any other medication, there is a chance your pet will experience mild to severe side effects while taking Prozac for dogs. This drug is known to alter blood glucose levels and should be carefully considered for dogs with diabetes mellitus. The drug has also shown to produce aggression and/or biting in rare cases. This includes enhancing the side effect in dogs already experiencing the problem, or creating aggression in dogs that were previously non-aggressive. Other side effects to consider are the following:

Lethargy or over-calmness

Gastrointestinal disturbances

Anxiety

Irritability or aggression

Sleeplessness

Hyperactivity

Excessive panting

Loss of appetite

[essentialdog]

Just reading the possible side effects could your dog be having a bad reaction? But I am sure your vet would of already discussed the possibility.

Side Effects of Prozac For Dogs

As with any other medication, there is a chance your pet will experience mild to severe side effects while taking Prozac for dogs. This drug is known to alter blood glucose levels and should be carefully considered for dogs with diabetes mellitus. The drug has also shown to produce aggression and/or biting in rare cases. This includes enhancing the side effect in dogs already experiencing the problem, or creating aggression in dogs that were previously non-aggressive. Other side effects to consider are the following:

Lethargy or over-calmness

Gastrointestinal disturbances

Anxiety

Irritability or aggression

Sleeplessness

Hyperactivity

Excessive panting

Loss of appetite

That's what I'm hoping - that it's a side effect of the anti depressants. It seems her dog wasn't displaying any symptoms before her other dog died. I hope it is a case of depression from the loss of her friend and a bad side effect to the anti deps and not a brain tumour. Anti depressants can also bring on psychosis, twitching, body tremors and depression.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I think it's a good point about the Prozac, but please speak to your Vet about tapering the dose down slowly, as stopping the medication without slowly weaning her off may create other symptoms.

A lot of what you describe could be noise phobia, which can show itself in middle-old age.

Some of what you describe sounds very strange but I will go against the grain and say I would spend the day in Melbourne, get full bloods done (particularly on the liver) and have the MRI done.

You'll never know if it's her brain or her eyes otherwise. Unfortunately MRI's will never be cheap but thankfully now we have animal scanners that are readily accessible.

You do need a specialist.

For me, I wouldn't put her to sleep without finding out, I would always wonder whether I'd made the right decision. You are under no obligation to do further treatment or surgery, other than your obligations as a pet owner to alleviate undue suffering.

[Sheridan]

Did the vet do any tests for epilepsy or dementia? Prozac seems an odd drug to prescribe.