mini girl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have been trying to hand raise a pup mini poodle she is now 4 and a half weeks old. We were tube feeding but tried to get her to eat and lap at about 3 weeks as mother lost her milk. She does not want to lap milk and all I can get her to eat is raw mince. I give her some milk sponge method but she will only take about 10 mils. I am giving her a little nutrigel and she should be gaining around 28 grams a day but only gaining about half that. She weighs around 650 grams. Adult weight should be 7 or so klos. She was very small born only 121 grams. I have tried her with farex and divetalact, soaked advance rehydratbel puppy food and raw good mince. She eats a bit of the mince but I feel not enough. She seems strong and active and wees and poos ok. I am wondering if we should go back to the tube feeding for a week or so to bring her on a bit. Any suggestions would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Poor little thing. What does the vet say ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'd be getting a full vet check. At 4 and 1/2 weeks old she should be well able to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Puppies can usually work out how to lap from 2 weeks if need be. As soon as they can see and stand, lapping should be possible and I have never heard of any being tube fed after that. With the slow start this little one has had, maybe she wasn't at that stage until 3 weeks but by now she should be able to eat well. To get a puppy to lap hold a saucer up under the chin with a little milk in it. Dip your finger in the milk and then in the puppies mouth. Then dip her chin in the milk. In most cases the puppy will lap. If that doesn't work and she will eat mince, mix some with a little milk and gradually increase the amount of milk until she has to lap rather than pick up the meat. You can gradually add other stuff like dry food soaked in milk to the mix and then start varying the texture. She should also have water available at this age so watch and see if she works out what to do with the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Puppies can usually work out how to lap from 2 weeks if need be. As soon as they can see and stand, lapping should be possible and I have never heard of any being tube fed after that. With the slow start this little one has had, maybe she wasn't at that stage until 3 weeks but by now she should be able to eat well. To get a puppy to lap hold a saucer up under the chin with a little milk in it. Dip your finger in the milk and then in the puppies mouth. Then dip her chin in the milk. In most cases the puppy will lap. If that doesn't work and she will eat mince, mix some with a little milk and gradually increase the amount of milk until she has to lap rather than pick up the meat. You can gradually add other stuff like dry food soaked in milk to the mix and then start varying the texture. She should also have water available at this age so watch and see if she works out what to do with the water. Tried all of the above. It's just like at times she has no interest in food whereas usually pups hoe in and really have a good old guts. When she is awake she walks around and appears happy enough. I may take her to the vet for a check up. I know she should be lapping and eating about 4 meals a day. She sleeps a lot and never cries. She also doesn't come running to the side of her pen wanting to get out. I think with all the handling to do with food maybe she doesn't like feeding time. Last meal at night and first thing in the morning she isn't too bad but through the day doesn't seem interested. She has only put on about 9 grams since last night. She doesn't seem dehydrated though. I am really at my wits end. Her mother went home to her owner on Sunday evening. I wonder if she misses her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozwildflower Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Puppies can usually work out how to lap from 2 weeks if need be. As soon as they can see and stand, lapping should be possible and I have never heard of any being tube fed after that. With the slow start this little one has had, maybe she wasn't at that stage until 3 weeks but by now she should be able to eat well. To get a puppy to lap hold a saucer up under the chin with a little milk in it. Dip your finger in the milk and then in the puppies mouth. Then dip her chin in the milk. In most cases the puppy will lap. If that doesn't work and she will eat mince, mix some with a little milk and gradually increase the amount of milk until she has to lap rather than pick up the meat. You can gradually add other stuff like dry food soaked in milk to the mix and then start varying the texture. She should also have water available at this age so watch and see if she works out what to do with the water. Tried all of the above. It's just like at times she has no interest in food whereas usually pups hoe in and really have a good old guts. When she is awake she walks around and appears happy enough. I may take her to the vet for a check up. I know she should be lapping and eating about 4 meals a day. She sleeps a lot and never cries. She also doesn't come running to the side of her pen wanting to get out. I think with all the handling to do with food maybe she doesn't like feeding time. Last meal at night and first thing in the morning she isn't too bad but through the day doesn't seem interested. She has only put on about 9 grams since last night. She doesn't seem dehydrated though. I am really at my wits end. Her mother went home to her owner on Sunday evening. I wonder if she misses her. Was she eating okay before the mother went home? Have you tried adding a bit of wombaroo puppy to the mince? I would definitely be getting the vet to have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Just back from the vet. He checked her all out and even though she is small said nothing wrong with her infact said she is quite feisty Has enough fat on her bones and not dehydrated. He said perhaps with the trauma of tube feeding and me trying to push her into eating so much she may have developed a bit of a fear of food and also the smell of the divetalact. He said she is probably a pup that knows what she wants even at 4 and a half weeks. He gave me a tin of royal canin recovery to try I tried her on some in the car while my husband dropped into our local shop and you know she loved it. She ate a fair bit actually off my fingers. My vet thinks she will come good and try her with a few things and see how she goes. Maybe I have one fussy girl on my hands. But good to know she has no health issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 that sounds positive ...perhaps she has never been hungry ..and has not had to work for her food, or had opportunity to taste smell other things at all? it would still concern me that she is so tiny , tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 that sounds positive ...perhaps she has never been hungry ..and has not had to work for her food, or had opportunity to taste smell other things at all? it would still concern me that she is so tiny , tho. You know I think that could be right. She had her mother to herself while she did have milk. Then tube feeding where we fed her every 3 or 4 hours no work for her. Earlier on she would eat on her own but I felt not quite enough. She was hungry this morning and did eat a litte. Then went back to sleep. Gave her some milk with syringe. Hope when she starts playing with the other pups she may be better. She put on a few grams overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjosa Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I wonder if the following recipe will help her get interested in lapping. I use it for bitches that have just whelped and for my puppies when they are being weaned, it works everytime for puppies who are slow at wanting to lap, it is a total food in itself, the problem puppies soon get their head over the bowl. 1 Cup Lactose free milk (it is on the shelf in the longlife milk) 1 egg yolk 1dessertspoon of natural yoghurt 3 drops of vanilla essence 1teaspoon of cold press Flaxseed oil, from health shop. The smell of this compared to ordinary milk seems to stimulate the will to lap and as she is by herself she has no competition to make her want to do it. Lactose free milk is fine for a puppy of 4.5 weeks. She may have a bit of a sore throat from all of the prolonged tube feeding, I do not do that past two weeks of age, they need to be able to learn to suck to develop their jaws. Best of luck with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temperamentfirst Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'd try her on goats milk and yoghurt rather than divetelact - it does wonders for puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Going against the general opinion here but I don't think giving her anything special or different is going to make any difference or trying to show her how. She either really can't lap, which is doubtful as she has eaten, although liquid may take a bit more practise, or she isn't hungry enough to help herself. Yesterday I put food down for 3 week old puppies & today was hot & mum wasn't inclined to go in with them when they whined so I put a shallow dish of cold water in there & they all drank. No showing them how, helping them or anything & these are tiny toy poodles. I would put a tiny selection of 3 or 4 foods down & some water & then leave her alone to help herself or not. She will not die or dehydrate for say 10 hours or so & usually a healthy puppy will not starve. She probably hates feed times & you probably stress if she doesn't have something very often so its been a hard & horrid time for both of you. Its hard not to fuss but I would try the above. Maybe food is such a nightmare issue now. Hope your next post is better news. Its all so stressful when it goes wrong Edited March 20, 2014 by Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 I wonder if the following recipe will help her get interested in lapping. I use it for bitches that have just whelped and for my puppies when they are being weaned, it works everytime for puppies who are slow at wanting to lap, it is a total food in itself, the problem puppies soon get their head over the bowl. 1 Cup Lactose free milk (it is on the shelf in the longlife milk) 1 egg yolk 1dessertspoon of natural yoghurt 3 drops of vanilla essence 1teaspoon of cold press Flaxseed oil, from health shop. The smell of this compared to ordinary milk seems to stimulate the will to lap and as she is by herself she has no competition to make her want to do it. Lactose free milk is fine for a puppy of 4.5 weeks. She may have a bit of a sore throat from all of the prolonged tube feeding, I do not do that past two weeks of age, they need to be able to learn to suck to develop their jaws. Best of luck with her. Will try this thanks She is eating better but still doesn't want to lap the divetalact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 but still doesn't want to lap the divetalact. she may want to ..but her muscles have no idea HOW :) She hasn't used her jaws/tongue much . puppies exercise their tongue/jaw/throat/neck and shoulder muscles during suckling - think about it :) they work pretty hard , and strengthen a lot of their body muscles ..including the back & hind legs ,as they push !! She has not done this ..and so has no "muscle memory" or pathways in her brain to help her .... IMO. Lapping is not an easy task, really ...... have you tried putting a TINY dob of nutrigel or something on her lips/nose ? that may help get her tongue working :) I would also put in some meaty lamb ribs/or a large beef vertebra .. she may well start to gum/suck/lick that when she has nothing else to do ( I would also be nasty and do this for an hour before the next meal..so she has hunger to help) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjosa Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Fingers crossed mini girl, I know that any puppies I have had that are slow to lap do take to this, just put her by the bowl put your finger in the milk and put it in her mouth with a bit of the mixture, do this for awhile but gradually put your finger/s closer to the bowl so as she will follow and she should then start to lap it. Oh I forgot an ingredient, a teaspoon of honey, did that recipe without getting my brain in gear :laugh: the honey of course makes it sweeter and they love that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Get rid of the divetalac, it's horrendous and I've never had pups that have consumed it willingly. Try goats milk, veanavite or animalac. You might also have better success with scrapping any mush that you are trying to prepare and going human grade mince. Offer some fresh human grade raw, I've never seen normal puppies refuse that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Going against the general opinion here but I don't think giving her anything special or different is going to make any difference or trying to show her how. She either really can't lap, which is doubtful as she has eaten, although liquid may take a bit more practise, or she isn't hungry enough to help herself. Yesterday I put food down for 3 week old puppies & today was hot & mum wasn't inclined to go in with them when they whined so I put a shallow dish of cold water in there & they all drank. No showing them how, helping them or anything & these are tiny toy poodles. I would put a tiny selection of 3 or 4 foods down & some water & then leave her alone to help herself or not. She will not die or dehydrate for say 10 hours or so & usually a healthy puppy will not starve. She probably hates feed times & you probably stress if she doesn't have something very often so its been a hard & horrid time for both of you. Its hard not to fuss but I would try the above. Maybe food is such a nightmare issue now. Hope your next post is better news. Its all so stressful when it goes wrong She is eating better and just give her a little milk with syringe never had a pup like this girl before. I am going to try the recipe with lactose free milk, etc suggested. I have another litter of 4 were two weeks last Wednesday. Don't think I will have any problems with these guys they are big and strong. When these pups are walking around may put the little girl in with them. Feel so sorry for her all alone. She is such a pretty little pup and already attitude and personality. She is5 weeks tomorrow . She now weighs 718 grams so she is coming on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Fingers crossed mini girl, I know that any puppies I have had that are slow to lap do take to this, just put her by the bowl put your finger in the milk and put it in her mouth with a bit of the mixture, do this for awhile but gradually put your finger/s closer to the bowl so as she will follow and she should then start to lap it. Oh I forgot an ingredient, a teaspoon of honey, did that recipe without getting my brain in gear :laugh: the honey of course makes it sweeter and they love that. Thanks so much getting all the ingredients today. Good to see the scales going up. Will feel a lot better when she reaches a kilo. Here she is in the bowl on the scales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Get rid of the divetalac, it's horrendous and I've never had pups that have consumed it willingly. Try goats milk, veanavite or animalac. You might also have better success with scrapping any mush that you are trying to prepare and going human grade mince. Offer some fresh human grade raw, I've never seen normal puppies refuse that. She is eating mince very well also some cheese (slices). The recovery tin food. She is a real little sweetheart but looks so awful after all the trying to get her to lap she has dried milk all over her chest. Looks quite funny. Would love to bath her but don't dare a pup this young will just wipe her over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Had a little brea through she just lapped water out of a teaspoon. Had the water running to wipe her over and seemed interested and she lapped two teaspoons. Good girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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