Incidents At The Dog Park :-(

[Rebanne]

It's not a popular opinion with Sibe owners but any dog can be taught to have a 100% reliable recall.

I have the utmost respect for Steve, but 100% is a big call- there are very few things in life that can truly be 100% guaranteed. A rabbit or a cat might just be too tempting for the best trained Husky 100% of the time and at every place. I do believe that very good recall can be taught to any breed but 100% seems improbable to me :) Dunno. I happy to be proven wrong though.

You would need impeccable timing. I know with the greys, they can be running around flat out and then wham!, they are into a different mindset and are blind and deaf to anything outside their own little world. It's why they run into trees or each other and kill themselves. If you called them before that switch flipped you'd be fine, afterwards nope.

[twodoggies2001]

I think it would be important to mention to your trainer about the incident and possibly take some actions to prevent your pup becoming reactive in the future. I know there are fear periods in puppyhood and if things go wrong during that time lasting damage can be done. I own a dog who was possibly mismanaged through these periods and it's very hard to sort later and with a large dig Woukd be difficult to manage.

As for dog parks I think they should be paved over and turned into car parks. They seem to enable lazy owners to get away without training their dogs, no need for leash manners or training if you can just let the dog go for his own excercise at the park.

Not all of us who frequent dog parks just let our dogs go and do their own thing. I go with my two and for us it's quality bonding time as well as exercise for all of us. We are not all lazy, the same as we are not all lax in training our dogs. The worst thing the councils could do is as you suggest pave them over for car parks. What's wrong with greenery and grass?

[huski]

It's not a popular opinion with Sibe owners but any dog can be taught to have a 100% reliable recall.

I have the utmost respect for Steve, but 100% is a big call- there are very few things in life that can truly be 100% guaranteed. A rabbit or a cat might just be too tempting for the best trained Husky 100% of the time and at every place. I do believe that very good recall can be taught to any breed but 100% seems improbable to me :) Dunno. I happy to be proven wrong though.

To me 100% means the dog comes every time I call, the first time I call under any distraction.

I don't see prey drive as as barrier to developing a reliable recall. I've never seen a dog with more prey drive than ours, but they will recall mid-chase from live prey. It is definitely possible! :)

[Jed]

I don't understand why, if people must go to off lead parks, they don't take a stout stick - ie, a walking stick with a heavy knob on the end - or fly repellent or pepper. So they can protect their dogs from the attacks of other untrained dogs.

There is nothing like loudly walloping an attacking dog, whilst screaming "get off" to attract even the slackest owner.

And why do you not immediately obtain the name and address of the owner, or at least a photo, so you can report to the council?

I am sorry for attacked dogs, but think we all need to be more proactive about preventing and reporting attacks.

I let my pups interact - on lead - with other leashed dogs - at dog shows.

[Yonjuro]

I don't understand why, if people must go to off lead parks, they don't take a stout stick - ie, a walking stick with a heavy knob on the end - or fly repellent or pepper. So they can protect their dogs from the attacks of other untrained dogs.

There is nothing like loudly walloping an attacking dog, whilst screaming "get off" to attract even the slackest owner.

And why do you not immediately obtain the name and address of the owner, or at least a photo, so you can report to the council?

I am sorry for attacked dogs, but think we all need to be more proactive about preventing and reporting attacks.

I let my pups interact - on lead - with other leashed dogs - at dog shows.

I tried to get his name, and he wouldn't oblige, I didn't have phone or camera, I have reported the incident.

[Yonjuro]

It's not a popular opinion with Sibe owners but any dog can be taught to have a 100% reliable recall.

I have the utmost respect for Steve, but 100% is a big call- there are very few things in life that can truly be 100% guaranteed. A rabbit or a cat might just be too tempting for the best trained Husky 100% of the time and at every place. I do believe that very good recall can be taught to any breed but 100% seems improbable to me :) Dunno. I happy to be proven wrong though.

To me 100% means the dog comes every time I call, the first time I call under any distraction.

I don't see prey drive as as barrier to developing a reliable recall. I've never seen a dog with more prey drive than ours, but they will recall mid-chase from live prey. It is definitely possible! :)

I am not closed minded about this, but definitely have reservations. I do not doubt the prey drive of a Mal, but surely they must have a degree of biddability or they wouldn't be used in so many professional police and military services??

High prey drive, inherited lust to run long and hard, low biddability, low food desire are some of the traits of most huskies, surely these combinations make 100% recall, 100% of the time a false sense of security?

I am not trying to be obtuse, rather, I am trying to get my head around the big picture :) I don't believe that every human can be trained to do any thing, why is the possible that every dog can be trained to do any particular thing? So I suppose this is why the use of 100% doesn't sit comfortable with my thought process.

I also have in the back of mind a chap that would also claim his well trained Huskies had excellent recall all of the time, right up the day he didn't and was killed by a car

[Jed]

I don't understand why, if people must go to off lead parks, they don't take a stout stick - ie, a walking stick with a heavy knob on the end - or fly repellent or pepper. So they can protect their dogs from the attacks of other untrained dogs.

There is nothing like loudly walloping an attacking dog, whilst screaming "get off" to attract even the slackest owner.

And why do you not immediately obtain the name and address of the owner, or at least a photo, so you can report to the council?

I am sorry for attacked dogs, but think we all need to be more proactive about preventing and reporting attacks.

I let my pups interact - on lead - with other leashed dogs - at dog shows.

I tried to get his name, and he wouldn't oblige, I didn't have phone or camera, I have reported the incident.

They often wont give a name. Good on you for reporting him though!!

Edited March 5, 2014 by Jed

[Yonjuro]

I think it would be important to mention to your trainer about the incident and possibly take some actions to prevent your pup becoming reactive in the future. I know there are fear periods in puppyhood and if things go wrong during that time lasting damage can be done. I own a dog who was possibly mismanaged through these periods and it's very hard to sort later and with a large dig Woukd be difficult to manage.

As for dog parks I think they should be paved over and turned into car parks. They seem to enable lazy owners to get away without training their dogs, no need for leash manners or training if you can just let the dog go for his own excercise at the park.

Thanks hankdog, I will certainly be mentioning it to the trainer this arvo even though I will be somewhat embarrassed that I did so.

[Yonjuro]

I don't understand why, if people must go to off lead parks, they don't take a stout stick - ie, a walking stick with a heavy knob on the end - or fly repellent or pepper. So they can protect their dogs from the attacks of other untrained dogs.

There is nothing like loudly walloping an attacking dog, whilst screaming "get off" to attract even the slackest owner.

And why do you not immediately obtain the name and address of the owner, or at least a photo, so you can report to the council?

I am sorry for attacked dogs, but think we all need to be more proactive about preventing and reporting attacks.

I let my pups interact - on lead - with other leashed dogs - at dog shows.

I tried to get his name, and he wouldn't oblige, I didn't have phone or camera, I have reported the incident.

They often wont give a name. Good on you for reporting him though!!

Thanks Jed,

I obviously only reported the daly x incident as the GSD was not a big deal and the owner quickly got her dog under control - even if she was a bit uppity LOL. To my mind the GSD incident was such a small thing that only became a mild issue when she blamed me for my dog being on-lead LOL

[huski]

I am not closed minded about this, but definitely have reservations. I do not doubt the prey drive of a Mal, but surely they must have a degree of biddability or they wouldn't be used in so many professional police and military services??

High prey drive, inherited lust to run long and hard, low biddability, low food desire are some of the traits of most huskies, surely these combinations make 100% recall, 100% of the time a false sense of security?

I am not trying to be obtuse, rather, I am trying to get my head around the big picture :) I don't believe that every human can be trained to do any thing, why is the possible that every dog can be trained to do any particular thing? So I suppose this is why the use of 100% doesn't sit comfortable with my thought process.

I also have in the back of mind a chap that would also claim his well trained Huskies had excellent recall all of the time, right up the day he didn't and was killed by a car

A lot of people have a reliable recall and it fades over time because they become complacent with their training. Steve must have told me a million times that every dog needs to be taught, trained, proofed and maintained.

Training a reliable recall is more than possible but like anything you train it depends on how badly you want it, how much time and effort you are willing to put in to achieve it.

You probably can train any dog to do just about anything, but how well it can perform will differ as will how much time you have to put in to achieve it. It's not about whether it is possible, it is about how bad you want it.

I wouldn't say Mals are highly biddable or that bidability is the reason they are selected as MWDs etc, but they are highly driven, which means that they are easy to motivate and go harder, faster and better than most other dogs at any task they are given.

[Yonjuro]

I am not closed minded about this, but definitely have reservations. I do not doubt the prey drive of a Mal, but surely they must have a degree of biddability or they wouldn't be used in so many professional police and military services??

High prey drive, inherited lust to run long and hard, low biddability, low food desire are some of the traits of most huskies, surely these combinations make 100% recall, 100% of the time a false sense of security?

I am not trying to be obtuse, rather, I am trying to get my head around the big picture :) I don't believe that every human can be trained to do any thing, why is the possible that every dog can be trained to do any particular thing? So I suppose this is why the use of 100% doesn't sit comfortable with my thought process.

I also have in the back of mind a chap that would also claim his well trained Huskies had excellent recall all of the time, right up the day he didn't and was killed by a car

A lot of people have a reliable recall and it fades over time because they become complacent with their training. Steve must have told me a million times that every dog needs to be taught, trained, proofed and maintained.

Training a reliable recall is more than possible but like anything you train it depends on how badly you want it, how much time and effort you are willing to put in to achieve it.

You probably can train any dog to do just about anything, but how well it can perform will differ as will how much time you have to put in to achieve it. It's not about whether it is possible, it is about how bad you want it.

I wouldn't say Mals are highly biddable or that bidability is the reason they are selected as MWDs etc, but they are highly driven, which means that they are easy to motivate and go harder, faster and better than most other dogs at any task they are given.

Thanks for the explanation, what you say makes sense.

Off topic but I would like to get my head around and understand the terms drive and biddability better. I think based on what you have said is drive is a desire to achieve something and biddability is ability to oblige? Probably best for its own topic I suppose?

[huski]

Thanks for the explanation, what you say makes sense.

Off topic but I would like to get my head around and understand the terms drive and biddability better. I think based on what you have said is drive is a desire to achieve something and biddability is ability to oblige? Probably best for its own topic I suppose?

LOL yep this one is getting quite side tracked! :)

[HazyWal]

Tibbie tabbie they are everywhere. I think people like to blame or justify their dogs behaviour by attacking my one reactive Greyhound because it's easier to blame those bloody greyhounds. The thing that annoys me is Maddie was never reactive until she was harassed by offlead dogs to the point that she is now a nightmare with most dogs. So thanks to irresponsible arseholes I now have a reactive dog AND get abused for their stupidity.

(Waves at fellow sufferer). Brandi is now also protective of me thanks to the stupidity of others. So I have two reactive greys and one who also carries on between me and the person screaming abuse at me for having dogs who react poorly to being rushed by others. Thankfully Hermon is bombproof

Thank Dog I can take my greys to the local slipping track for a run

I used to take Stan to the slipping track in Gosford as another friend in was in greyhound rescue and she was a member but she has stopped going now. Here you have to apply to the track and then it has to go before the board and if you're accepted they give you a key as it's padlocked. Stan loved going there, he'd go nuts when we pulled in the gate, reliving his not so glory days :laugh:

[Rebanne]

Tibbie tabbie they are everywhere. I think people like to blame or justify their dogs behaviour by attacking my one reactive Greyhound because it's easier to blame those bloody greyhounds. The thing that annoys me is Maddie was never reactive until she was harassed by offlead dogs to the point that she is now a nightmare with most dogs. So thanks to irresponsible arseholes I now have a reactive dog AND get abused for their stupidity.

(Waves at fellow sufferer). Brandi is now also protective of me thanks to the stupidity of others. So I have two reactive greys and one who also carries on between me and the person screaming abuse at me for having dogs who react poorly to being rushed by others. Thankfully Hermon is bombproof

Thank Dog I can take my greys to the local slipping track for a run

I used to take Stan to the slipping track in Gosford as another friend in was in greyhound rescue and she was a member but she has stopped going now. Here you have to apply to the track and then it has to go before the board and if you're accepted they give you a key as it's padlocked. Stan loved going there, he'd go nuts when we pulled in the gate, reliving his not so glory days :laugh:

I pay $50 for the key and am lucky they are very supportive of pet greyhounds. Off to a meeting tonight about it actually. Mine go nuts too and they don't have any glory days :laugh:

[HazyWal]

I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial.

Yes you are right there will always be those menace owners that think they are above the law and don't leash their dogs, if I remember rightly you're one of them.

I have greyhounds, muzzled by law with skin like tissue paper. One nip that would prove as nothing to your average dog will result in stitches to a greyhound so no my dogs don't need interact with other dogs.

[grumpette]

I used to take Stan to the slipping track in Gosford as another friend in was in greyhound rescue and she was a member but she has stopped going now. Here you have to apply to the track and then it has to go before the board and if you're accepted they give you a key as it's padlocked. Stan loved going there, he'd go nuts when we pulled in the gate, reliving his not so glory days :laugh:

Ah ha just as I thought. Proof that poor Stan is not a couch potato. He just needs the right motivation

[RazorBlade]

I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial.

Yes you are right there will always be those menace owners that think they are above the law and don't leash their dogs, if I remember rightly you're one of them.

I have greyhounds, muzzled by law with skin like tissue paper. One nip that would prove as nothing to your average dog will result in stitches to a greyhound so no my dogs don't need interact with other dogs.

Bam!! Straight into a personal attack. Well done! If you don't need your dogs to interact with other dogs then more power to you. I wasn't trying to tell you what to do with your dog. I was just saying, in my experience, what had worked for my situation.

[HazyWal]

I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial.

Yes you are right there will always be those menace owners that think they are above the law and don't leash their dogs, if I remember rightly you're one of them.

I have greyhounds, muzzled by law with skin like tissue paper. One nip that would prove as nothing to your average dog will result in stitches to a greyhound so no my dogs don't need interact with other dogs.

Bam!! Straight into a personal attack. Well done! If you don't need your dogs to interact with other dogs then more power to you. I wasn't trying to tell you what to do with your dog. I was just saying, in my experience, what had worked for my situation.

A personal attack?? Oh dear I could've just asked you if you were thick as you did in a previous thread about the same issues of offlead dogs. I am agreeing with you RazorBlade, people that don't leash their dogs in areas where it is required by law ARE a menace.

[RazorBlade]

I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial.

Yes you are right there will always be those menace owners that think they are above the law and don't leash their dogs, if I remember rightly you're one of them.

I have greyhounds, muzzled by law with skin like tissue paper. One nip that would prove as nothing to your average dog will result in stitches to a greyhound so no my dogs don't need interact with other dogs.

Bam!! Straight into a personal attack. Well done! If you don't need your dogs to interact with other dogs then more power to you. I wasn't trying to tell you what to do with your dog. I was just saying, in my experience, what had worked for my situation.

A personal attack?? Oh dear I could've just asked you if you were thick as you did in a previous thread about the same issues of offlead dogs. I am agreeing with you RazorBlade, people that don't leash their dogs in areas where it is required by law ARE a menace.

Wow I feel like you are harbouring some angst. You should learn to let go of these things. It's bad for your blood pressure.

[Guest hankodie]

RazorBlade the last time a similar thread to this one came up you stated that you had no problem walking your dog off leash illegally and did so regularly. You also stated that you refuse to use a leash on him when you sit at cafés. Not sure how Hazy's reply is considered a personal attack when she was just stating the truth.