Yonjuro Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 These dog owners are literally everywhere. EVERYWHERE. They outnumber the sensible, responsible and educated dog owners by a long shot. There is one man who walks his little dog without a lead every afternoon where I live. He follows it around while it trots along ahead of him. I've seen this dog dart across the road more than a handful of times now yet I have not once since it on a leash. Every time I come across the owner when I'm out walking my 2 he gives me a smug look, like he's so clever that he's walking his dog off lead while both of mine are leashed. He walks this dog along busy roads and I swear it's just an accident waiting to happen. Drives me nuts. Don't get me started on my local park/oval where I take Hank. SWFs and little dogs love to target him - not having a go at little dogs, I own one myself, but for some reason a lot of the SWF owners I encounter here are idiots who have never heard of a leash before. I had one charge Hank a few days ago (in an area where dogs were supposed to be on lead). The lady took her sweet time coming over and she laughed because Hank was hiding behind my legs while I was trying to pick up her snarling dog to keep it from attacking mine. When I called her out on it her retort was "what do you care, my dog couldn't do a thing to yours he's so small! YOUR dog on the other hand could do a lot of damage, you should be careful. If he's so unfriendly you shouldn't bring him to places with other dogs". Unbelievable. Sorry for going OT - I agree with the obedience club advice Yonjuro, they are a great place to go for some controlled socialisation and it's a much safer setting than a dog park. I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience with Ronin, hopefully he bounces back and forgets all about it! Thanks for your comments Hankodie. So, anyway, we just went for our afternoon walk and headed toward the little "strictly on lead only" park and sure enough there was a woman their with her kids and 2 off lead dogs! F^&^#^ing hell! So we just walked on by, I couldn't deal with another drama 2 nights running. Ya know, I used to read these type of threads and it has been only a year after my dog of 14 years was PTS from age related conditions. I used to think - "I don't know what all the fuss is about, I have never had a problem in that time". Now I am having the same issues of frustration, anger and despair at the general dog owning public that many here experience. Such is life I suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akristin Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Sorry this unfortunate situation happened to you .. hopefully you, your husky pup and your daughter all recover from this incident.. I'd say don't hesitate to take your puppy out and about! There will always be crazy owners out there just need to identify which ones they are so we can avoid them .. These dog owners are literally everywhere. EVERYWHERE. They outnumber the sensible, responsible and educated dog owners by a long shot. There is one man who walks his little dog without a lead every afternoon where I live. He follows it around while it trots along ahead of him. I've seen this dog dart across the road more than a handful of times now yet I have not once since it on a leash. Every time I come across the owner when I'm out walking my 2 he gives me a smug look, like he's so clever that he's walking his dog off lead while both of mine are leashed. He walks this dog along busy roads and I swear it's just an accident waiting to happen. Drives me nuts. Don't get me started on my local park/oval where I take Hank. SWFs and little dogs love to target him - not having a go at little dogs, I own one myself, but for some reason a lot of the SWF owners I encounter here are idiots who have never heard of a leash before. I had one charge Hank a few days ago (in an area where dogs were supposed to be on lead). The lady took her sweet time coming over and she laughed because Hank was hiding behind my legs while I was trying to pick up her snarling dog to keep it from attacking mine. When I called her out on it her retort was "what do you care, my dog couldn't do a thing to yours he's so small! YOUR dog on the other hand could do a lot of damage, you should be careful. If he's so unfriendly you shouldn't bring him to places with other dogs". Unbelievable. Sorry for going OT - I agree with the obedience club advice Yonjuro, they are a great place to go for some controlled socialisation and it's a much safer setting than a dog park. I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience with Ronin, hopefully he bounces back and forgets all about it! I totally agree with you especially in non off lead areas! Makes me seriously wonder about some people.... I'd like to share my story too! had me fuming At my local park it specifies no offleash dogs as I gather there had been a few incidents with dogs already at that park.. I was only walking one of my dogs, Marley who is a reactive dog. The parks path width is quite big it could probably fit about 6 people side by side but this lady a few meters away from her 3 offleash dogs. Two were quite large dogs, bigger than Marley, who is more or less the average sized lab. Now I had little problem with the dogs being offleash provided that they didn't come straight towards us.. however what I did have a problem was with was that the lady shouted from metres away out to me and asked if my dog was friendly I told her that she wasn't good with dogs and she has issues with unknown dogs resulting in tensed up behavior. But nope, that warning didn't deter her.. she caught up with her dogs which were already almost surrounding Marley and I (she had already tensed up with her hackles raised alarmingly, her tail straight BUT wagging so very slowly, her eyes locked on the closest dog.) The lady swiftly walked towards us-- as if she doubted me or just blatantly ignored what I had just said! She proceeded to then PAT Marley in her state and tell her she wasn't aggressive at all.. but in fact, Marley was quite happy and just wanted to play because her tail was wagging and that I didn't need the halti at all I didn't even bother explaining all the signs she was displaying.. it was just infuriating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Tibbie tabbie they are everywhere. I think people like to blame or justify their dogs behaviour by attacking my one reactive Greyhound because it's easier to blame those bloody greyhounds. The thing that annoys me is Maddie was never reactive until she was harassed by offlead dogs to the point that she is now a nightmare with most dogs. So thanks to irresponsible arseholes I now have a reactive dog AND get abused for their stupidity. (Waves at fellow sufferer). Brandi is now also protective of me thanks to the stupidity of others. So I have two reactive greys and one who also carries on between me and the person screaming abuse at me for having dogs who react poorly to being rushed by others. Thankfully Hermon is bombproof Thank Dog I can take my greys to the local slipping track for a run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I have a dog that is timid of people she hasn't met before, and will bark and carry on and hide behind me... but she's plenty happy to be approached by strange dogs... go figure? I would have the backward dog, wouldn't I? T. Yes but you don't have a muzzled dog T. I used to have a Rotti boy who was muzzled when out for a walk... people used to cross the road to avoid him. What they didn't know was that the muzzle was for HIS protection, not theirs. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwifeathers Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 There are a lot of places I don't dare take my two dogs to, particularly the main off leash "dog park" (a long stretch of river in town, not fenced just the main place people take dogs). I have one dog reactive terrier and one fragile italian greyhound who are walked on lead. Walks are very stressful no matter where I take them because people refuse to listen to leash laws or to me when I say one of them isn't friendly, and even friendly big dogs could accidentally hurt the other by bouncing on her. I used to take them to a lovely park thats on leash dogs only (probably because its got lots of flower beds, its next to a big golf course and people take their wee kiddies there a lot to feed the ducks and play, because its supposed to be somewhere safe being on leash only. Lo and behold last 4 times I've been there, out of control off leash dogs! A large x breed nearly knocked over a family with twin toddlers last time I was there, hooning around all over the place! The mother rightly gave them a verbal lashing, they grabbed the dog by the collar (not even carrying a lead!) and crept away. : Guess that's another safe place gone. The only place I can take them completely safely is the kennel club grounds, its locked so only members can get in, and large and fully fenced so they can have a run, and in a rural-ish area so I can take them for a decent on-lead run as well. And at least when I take them around the block I know most of the dogs and owners and can avoid who I need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorBlade Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial. Edited March 4, 2014 by RazorBlade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I avoid dog parks, it's bad enough walking our two around the suburb. There is a pit bull x that launches itself going nuts at the front fence (which it could easily clear if it wanted to), a SWF and two other little terrier x buggers which have rushed us on a number of occasions, snapping and snarling while my dogs just look on like WTF?, a rotti cross and GSD which try to leap their front fence to eat us.....and that's just a few examples. It's ridiculous. I hope your little man is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial. Sorry, I disagree. I don't believe in throwing young dogs into negative situations in order to teach them a "lesson". They are dogs, they think by association, they're not going to rationalise a negative experience by going "oh this is a negative experience and it won't happen again, good I've learned my lesson now". My frenchie had a couple of negative experiences (ones that I didn't intentionally put her in) during her puppyhood that have had an affect on her for life. And I'm not sure I understand your comment about "artificial" interactions. You could argue that all dog interactions are artificial, at least where humans are involved. A dog park is most certainly an artificial setting. Dogs of all different sizes, temperaments and breeds thrown together and expected to "sort it out" for themselves? Never mind that some of them haven't had proper socialisation or training. At obedience clubs dogs are still able to be amongst each other but the focus is primarily on the relationship between the owner and the dog which promotes the best kind of social skills in a dog IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I just wanted to say, it does seem like dogs onlead do attract more aggro responses from offlead dogs, so I wouldn't take him. There is no reason just because he is a husky he cant have recall, I know 2 who are fine offlead,i think its just a lot harder :laugh: Perhaps you could get a bike to exercise him with? Dog parks need to be entered with a great deal of caution, and you need to be prepared to step in fast if need be, all a lot of stress really. I go to one where my son skates sometimes, only if its empty or it has oodles inside, who are normally nervous nellies and don't come out from under the tables. It has 4 exit points and views all around, so I watch and if anything comes in I don't like the look of I get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial. I don't agree that dogs have to learn to interact in a "pack" situation. I aim to raise my pups to have a neutral or low positive value for other dogs, that is I don't want them to see another dog and get excited or see real value in other dogs. I don't have any purpose for a dog that has a high value for other dogs, it doesn't interest or benefit me. The only skill I really want my dogs to show around other dogs is mild to no interest. Dogs don't need to meet or play with 100 other dogs to learn how to interact with other dogs appropriately. More often than not, they will end up learning bad habits and developing a high value for other dogs. Edited March 4, 2014 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial. I am not sure how allowing a large dog to bolt at a puppy, then snap, growl bite down and pull, helps build a better dog citizen (for lack of a better term)?? All this incident has done has caused fear and pain. It wont be long and my dog will be around 30kg with a massive pulling force and very powerful. These types of events do not shape a confident and robust temperament from my understanding. Sure, if one wanted to develop an aggressive fighting dog then yes by all means subject the dog to constant attacks until he will attack first out of self preservation. I have no intention of wrapping my dog in cotton wool and am working with a trainer to help my dog be the best he can be, I will be talking to her about the incident at our session this arvo knowing full well that I should never have put my puppy in this situation. My previous dog experiences (some 45 years) probably would made me think similar to what you have posted. Now it doesn't. What my experience has taught me is that I don't know everything. The forum has shown me that several of my "definite" opinions on certain matters may actually not be the only way or even correct. I am happy to hear all opinions now, before making an informed decision, whether it be food and nutrition, health or training. In this instance I doubt I will be following your logic posted above as I don't think it will benefit my puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I just wanted to say, it does seem like dogs onlead do attract more aggro responses from offlead dogs, so I wouldn't take him. There is no reason just because he is a husky he cant have recall, I know 2 who are fine offlead,i think its just a lot harder :laugh: Perhaps you could get a bike to exercise him with? Dog parks need to be entered with a great deal of caution, and you need to be prepared to step in fast if need be, all a lot of stress really. I go to one where my son skates sometimes, only if its empty or it has oodles inside, who are normally nervous nellies and don't come out from under the tables. It has 4 exit points and views all around, so I watch and if anything comes in I don't like the look of I get out. I agree that on-lead do seem to attract the aggro off-lead ones. I do not believe that Huskies can have 100% recall all of the time. As a member of a huge husky forum many well and professionally trained huskies can have perfect recall up until the time they don't, and this normally equates to a dead husky. I do intent to try and teach 'perfect' recall with my trainer, but I will never ever rely on this. Regarding the bike, to exercise, I fully intend to run him, but he is too young for this until he is between 12 and 18 months. He will be trained to dry land mush when his body and joints are fully developed and the time is right, which is another reason I need to be careful with developing a good temperament. Edited March 4, 2014 by Yonjuro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I always said to the owner of the 2 I knew, they must be broken as they had great recall :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I always said to the owner of the 2 I knew, they must be broken as they had great recall :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 It's not a popular opinion with Sibe owners but any dog can be taught to have a 100% reliable recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 It's not a popular opinion with Sibe owners but any dog can be taught to have a 100% reliable recall. I have the utmost respect for Steve, but 100% is a big call- there are very few things in life that can truly be 100% guaranteed. A rabbit or a cat might just be too tempting for the best trained Husky 100% of the time and at every place. I do believe that very good recall can be taught to any breed but 100% seems improbable to me :) Dunno. I happy to be proven wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorBlade Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I never said that you should let your dog be attacked nor did I recommend throwing your dog into negative situations. What I was saying is that it's possible to use a less than ideal situation to train towards behaviours that you do find desirable. Glass half full type of thing. While there are bad experiences to be had at off lead parks there are also plenty of benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 For puppies and small dogs in particular I can see absolutely no benefit whatsoever in taking them to dog parks and plenty of negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think it would be important to mention to your trainer about the incident and possibly take some actions to prevent your pup becoming reactive in the future. I know there are fear periods in puppyhood and if things go wrong during that time lasting damage can be done. I own a dog who was possibly mismanaged through these periods and it's very hard to sort later and with a large dig Woukd be difficult to manage. As for dog parks I think they should be paved over and turned into car parks. They seem to enable lazy owners to get away without training their dogs, no need for leash manners or training if you can just let the dog go for his own excercise at the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial. yeah and who pays the vet bill? It is not normal for dogs to socially interact with other dogs who are not part of their pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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