Agility Conflict

[akristin]

Hi everyone, I am one of those people who hasn't joined a dog club long story short my parents disagreed on my will to join a dog club but now since I'm finally 20 they see I'm old enough to make my own decisions entering the adult world etc.. Anyway!

If you're not bothered to read my essay down below on why I'm worried about joining the dog club here's the question I'm basically asking:

I want to join my local dog training club and do some agility with Marley my lab at my local dog club for both mental and phsical stimulation

but am worried that she will react badly towards the dogs at the club if we do end up joining. I'm just wondering if anyone's dog has reactivity/issues with dogs at their own dog club and how you curb that whilst doing an agility trial?

Here's the detailed explanation :

Whilst worrying about this dilemma last night I have contacted Steve via email from K9 pro to evaluate her issues so I'm just going to paste what I wrote so I don't need separately to reiterate her issues

I have a Labrador who is reactive to dogs on lead when a dog walks by with its owner- I walk with a halti fitted so I have better control of where she looks and gives me time to correct her if she stares down a dog. If we walk past them quite swiftly she's fine but will have her hackles and tail up. At an instance when a dog was greeting her on-lead she lets them sniff but same thing, hackles up tail straight (but wagging very very slowly which I've learnt quite quickly is not a safe signal at all!)- once she has tried to go for a nippy and yappy dog however the halti allowed significant control to ensure that nothing further happened.. Lucky I wasn't walking her on a flat collar or something more could have happened in that scenario.

When we went to an off-lead in the dog park (which we don't go to anymore) she seemed to be displaying quite tensed up behaviors when meeting a dog for the first time(hackles up, tail straight, looking the other dog straight in the eye) lets them sniff then she walks off. If she then walks off and the dog follows her perhaps wanting to play she will growl, bark and bare her teeth if the dogs persist! However, She forgets about them when I call her, she comes and will forget any other dog around her if we play fetch or practice obedience such as sit and stay.

In saying that, she has never attacked a dog but most dog that we see frequently on walks or what not are now of us when we go take her out because she displays this type of behavior, really just want to know why she displays this type of behavior, and how we can overcome this. This only happens to dogs that she's unfamiliar with, when we introduce her to dogs in our home and they hang around she has no problem and within a day or two she starts playing with them.. so I know she's not crazily aggressive but shows big warning signs for me.

Sorry for the lengthy email but would really appreciate your expertise!

If you read this far into this post thanks for taking the time to read it! :D

Edited March 3, 2014 by akristin

[korbin13]

Good to see you have contacted someone.

Have you gone down to the dog club you want to join (without your dog) and discussed it with them? They may be able to help.

[Kavik]

How old is your dog?

With a reactive dog, good engagement is essential. Your dog does not have to meet other dogs, but does need to be able to be around them without causing a problem, so having fun with you, focus and attention on you will help. I think before you try a club atmosphere, you should work on that first. Knowing your dog's critical distance and how to work and keep your dog under threshold is also very important. This will help you to know how much space you need to give other dogs to keep your dog's attention.

It also depends on the club. Some clubs are better than others at educating members about giving space to some dogs, and some clubs are better organised than others.

[RiverStar-Aura]

It can also depend on the dog. Zeus is reactive on lead in that he barks and lunges at other dogs, however, he is fine off lead. I too was worried about joining agility because of his reactivity, but I've found the complete opposite. He really thrives in the learning environment and I guess that because he is being engaged with other things, he's quite happy to behave beautifully around the other dogs. Even when we're all standing in line, Zeus's focus is on me and not the other dogs.

Reading your longer post though it does sound like Marley is a little different, especially if she's uncomfortable around other dogs. In saying that, Marley sounds like she has excellent engagement if she's able to ignore the other dogs around her when you're training or playing with her. You might find that because of this connection you have with Marley that she'll be fine at agility (like Zeus) because her focus will be on other things rather than the dogs around her.

Good to read that you've contacted someone for help too; Steve is fantastic and if anyone can get results, he can!

[dotdashdot]

A have a slightly similar story, less reactive though. My girl Cleo was attacked on lead by a little dog and is now on lead reactive. As such I don't let her close to dogs on lead now, we did basic obedience fine as my club has as rule of 2 second hello only. She is fine off lead, but I have trust issues - I don't want to be responsible for an attack around dogs I don't know.

We started agility about 4 weeks ago, and she was quite narky on the first night and I made sure everyone knew that she was reactive on lead. The trainer also helped by asking around the group (we were all newbies) who had reactive dogs, i'm the only one, and she said to everyone to be aware of Cleo's space.

We haven't had one single growl since that first week, and dogs have come much closer to her and the others in my group have commented on how good she is. She is great doing runs off lead, she focuses well on food (Dalmatian's, what can I say they have a food drive to rival a lab's) and doesn't give two hoots about the other dogs when I ask for her attention (except when it was raining last Monday.....then she didn't want to leave the tunnel, not even for ham! )

I think what helped in our case was the initial beginners obedience that we did, it taught her to focus on me and not the other dogs around us. A good club will go a long way in helping you, it has with me!

[sheena]

A have a slightly similar story, less reactive though. My girl Cleo was attacked on lead by a little dog and is now on lead reactive. As such I don't let her close to dogs on lead now, we did basic obedience fine as my club has as rule of 2 second hello only. She is fine off lead, but I have trust issues - I don't want to be responsible for an attack around dogs I don't know.

We started agility about 4 weeks ago, and she was quite narky on the first night and I made sure everyone knew that she was reactive on lead. The trainer also helped by asking around the group (we were all newbies) who had reactive dogs, i'm the only one, and she said to everyone to be aware of Cleo's space.

We haven't had one single growl since that first week, and dogs have come much closer to her and the others in my group have commented on how good she is. She is great doing runs off lead, she focuses well on food (Dalmatian's, what can I say they have a food drive to rival a lab's) and doesn't give two hoots about the other dogs when I ask for her attention (except when it was raining last Monday.....then she didn't want to leave the tunnel, not even for ham! )

I think what helped in our case was the initial beginners obedience that we did, it taught her to focus on me and not the other dogs around us. A good club will go a long way in helping you, it has with me!

A bit off-topic....but D toD, did you join our club cause I havn't seen you down there (Monday nights) or are you doing Canine College on Saturdays

[dotdashdot]

A have a slightly similar story, less reactive though. My girl Cleo was attacked on lead by a little dog and is now on lead reactive. As such I don't let her close to dogs on lead now, we did basic obedience fine as my club has as rule of 2 second hello only. She is fine off lead, but I have trust issues - I don't want to be responsible for an attack around dogs I don't know.

We started agility about 4 weeks ago, and she was quite narky on the first night and I made sure everyone knew that she was reactive on lead. The trainer also helped by asking around the group (we were all newbies) who had reactive dogs, i'm the only one, and she said to everyone to be aware of Cleo's space.

We haven't had one single growl since that first week, and dogs have come much closer to her and the others in my group have commented on how good she is. She is great doing runs off lead, she focuses well on food (Dalmatian's, what can I say they have a food drive to rival a lab's) and doesn't give two hoots about the other dogs when I ask for her attention (except when it was raining last Monday.....then she didn't want to leave the tunnel, not even for ham! )

I think what helped in our case was the initial beginners obedience that we did, it taught her to focus on me and not the other dogs around us. A good club will go a long way in helping you, it has with me!

A bit off-topic....but D toD, did you join our club cause I havn't seen you down there (Monday nights) or are you doing Canine College on Saturdays

Yea i'm there, i'm a bit shy still so you may not see me (I've seen you and your two beauties!) I was missing yesterday because I had my wisdom teeth out on Friday. I sit on the benches near the shed watching everyone in your class until everyone is there for my class, and I leave Cleo in the car with my husband until then (which may make it harder to spot me, without my dog). If you're looking for me, I usually wear bright pink shoes and black and pink pants.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

My girl is reactive and generally we have on leash issues, but I really don't trust her a great deal off lead in formal environments (at dog parks we are fine and she plays with the dogs, but she can get distracted by moving things and dogs if she is not engaged in fun focussed activities).

Anyway, I have done bundles of work with her playing LAT and getting her focussed. We used to do agility training, but it was at a specific agility club. For the first few rounds of lessons I didn't take her off lead unless I absolutely had to, would set up barriers between myself and the other dogs or would move further away from the other dogs so we were at a distance she could focus. As she became more comfortable with the dogs in her classes we were able to do more off lead work. But I also had great people in my class and my instructors were aware of her issues, so other people would give us space, if we knew she couldn't work beside another dog we would make sure they were well away from each other, at times we would do things one dog at a time to minimise distractions for all. When we finished up at the club we were almost at the point of being able to do most things off lead and even while another dog was doing things near us. we had to finish up there because we moved house.

I think it's really important to have some great management techniques for your dog, be aware of your environment, be upfront with the instructors and other class members. I would happily go back to training in agility, but I don't think we will ever trial in agility - the environment is just so highly charged and there is so much going on everywhere; reactive dogs nightmare!!!! But we have taken up other sports to get the mental stimulation. I have to say since we've started dog dancing she has become so much more attentive and engaged in training and it has helped me be more comfortable in the training environment (which is obviously good for her!). I now figure I'm just going to work with my dogs strengths and weaknesses, even though when I got her she was going to be my agility dog!!

[zeebie]

Joining any dog sports club totally depends on the people in the club, if you find one where there is an high number of advanced members to help the new members this is an excellent beginning, also some have motivation and control classes where very small group or one on one with a good instructor to help you get through the early stages. We have several 'problem dogs' at our club but strategies have been put in place to help the owners deal with the various issues. One is just walking aorund during class with dog on lead treating dog and giving praise as passing another dog etc this often takes time but eventually all the dogs who have done this plus confidence boosting skills program have gone on to make great agility dogs. Good luck and stay positive, dogs feel us and our reactions through their leads ;)

[akristin]

Good to see you have contacted someone.

Have you gone down to the dog club you want to join (without your dog) and discussed it with them? They may be able to help.

Not yet, am planning to call them tonight as I've already missed out on their weekly training session on Tuesday nights

How old is your dog?

With a reactive dog, good engagement is essential. Your dog does not have to meet other dogs, but does need to be able to be around them without causing a problem, so having fun with you, focus and attention on you will help. I think before you try a club atmosphere, you should work on that first. Knowing your dog's critical distance and how to work and keep your dog under threshold is also very important. This will help you to know how much space you need to give other dogs to keep your dog's attention.

It also depends on the club. Some clubs are better than others at educating members about giving space to some dogs, and some clubs are better organised than others.

Marley is two at the moment, turning 3 this year

One of the only places I've done an exercise where I get her to pay attention to me was at our trip to the beach where some dogs had zoomed right to us. I got her to sit down and focus on me. I'd say that her attention span and focus is pretty on point when asked to do something such as just staying.. But she goes over thethreshold when she's not being asked to do something

It can also depend on the dog. Zeus is reactive on lead in that he barks and lunges at other dogs, however, he is fine off lead. I too was worried about joining agility because of his reactivity, but I've found the complete opposite. He really thrives in the learning environment and I guess that because he is being engaged with other things, he's quite happy to behave beautifully around the other dogs. Even when we're all standing in line, Zeus's focus is on me and not the other dogs.

Reading your longer post though it does sound like Marley is a little different, especially if she's uncomfortable around other dogs. In saying that, Marley sounds like she has excellent engagement if she's able to ignore the other dogs around her when you're training or playing with her. You might find that because of this connection you have with Marley that she'll be fine at agility (like Zeus) because her focus will be on other things rather than the dogs around her.

Good to read that you've contacted someone for help too; Steve is fantastic and if anyone can get results, he can!

That's a relief to hear that Marley could have potential in a dog-surrounded environment!

Yes, I heard about Steve on this very forum and have read very positive reviews about his work so we're quite excited! I've already gotten a reply from the k9 pro coordinator so all we need is to organize a specific time!

A have a slightly similar story, less reactive though. My girl Cleo was attacked on lead by a little dog and is now on lead reactive. As such I don't let her close to dogs on lead now, we did basic obedience fine as my club has as rule of 2 second hello only. She is fine off lead, but I have trust issues - I don't want to be responsible for an attack around dogs I don't know.

We started agility about 4 weeks ago, and she was quite narky on the first night and I made sure everyone knew that she was reactive on lead. The trainer also helped by asking around the group (we were all newbies) who had reactive dogs, i'm the only one, and she said to everyone to be aware of Cleo's space.

We haven't had one single growl since that first week, and dogs have come much closer to her and the others in my group have commented on how good she is. She is great doing runs off lead, she focuses well on food (Dalmatian's, what can I say they have a food drive to rival a lab's) and doesn't give two hoots about the other dogs when I ask for her attention (except when it was raining last Monday.....then she didn't want to leave the tunnel, not even for ham! )

I think what helped in our case was the initial beginners obedience that we did, it taught her to focus on me and not the other dogs around us. A good club will go a long way in helping you, it has with me!

I feel the same way! Really don't want to have an accident and will avoid one at all costs..

At first I thought that Marley may have been attacked by a dog before we got her although I have a feeling now it may be that she hasn't been properly socialized when we first got her at 7 months because she seems confused as to what to do when faced with another dog ..

Good to hear your girl has integrated into joining a club just fine .. :laugh: Yes you may be right! Marley is very very food driven hopefull shes as driven with food when faced with a room full of dogs!

My girl is reactive and generally we have on leash issues, but I really don't trust her a great deal off lead in formal environments (at dog parks we are fine and she plays with the dogs, but she can get distracted by moving things and dogs if she is not engaged in fun focussed activities).

Anyway, I have done bundles of work with her playing LAT and getting her focussed. We used to do agility training, but it was at a specific agility club. For the first few rounds of lessons I didn't take her off lead unless I absolutely had to, would set up barriers between myself and the other dogs or would move further away from the other dogs so we were at a distance she could focus. As she became more comfortable with the dogs in her classes we were able to do more off lead work. But I also had great people in my class and my instructors were aware of her issues, so other people would give us space, if we knew she couldn't work beside another dog we would make sure they were well away from each other, at times we would do things one dog at a time to minimise distractions for all. When we finished up at the club we were almost at the point of being able to do most things off lead and even while another dog was doing things near us. we had to finish up there because we moved house.

I think it's really important to have some great management techniques for your dog, be aware of your environment, be upfront with the instructors and other class members. I would happily go back to training in agility, but I don't think we will ever trial in agility - the environment is just so highly charged and there is so much going on everywhere; reactive dogs nightmare!!!! But we have taken up other sports to get the mental stimulation. I have to say since we've started dog dancing she has become so much more attentive and engaged in training and it has helped me be more comfortable in the training environment (which is obviously good for her!). I now figure I'm just going to work with my dogs strengths and weaknesses, even though when I got her she was going to be my agility dog!!

Thank you for the advice! Will definitely keep your words in mind.

A reactive dogs nightmare those words make me a little bit nervous! Will have to see the behaviorists advice on weather it's a wise decision on if we should join agility or not before we join .. Dog dancing - I've checked it out and it looks quite fun! although I am horrible at dancing so may not be the perfect fit for us

Joining any dog sports club totally depends on the people in the club, if you find one where there is an high number of advanced members to help the new members this is an excellent beginning, also some have motivation and control classes where very small group or one on one with a good instructor to help you get through the early stages. We have several 'problem dogs' at our club but strategies have been put in place to help the owners deal with the various issues. One is just walking aorund during class with dog on lead treating dog and giving praise as passing another dog etc this often takes time but eventually all the dogs who have done this plus confidence boosting skills program have gone on to make great agility dogs. Good luck and stay positive, dogs feel us and our reactions through their leads ;)

Will have to use my intuition if this is the club for us! Thanks for the advice will stay positive for sure .. haha Yes I realise when I'm tense Marley definitely feels that and reacts 3x worse- sometimes I don't even have to keep an eye on here because it's me that's the problem.. I have to keep checking myself on walks for my nerves!

Thanks everyone for the lovley input and advice, will keep you all posted!

Edited March 4, 2014 by akristin

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

There's lots of dogs around here that don't like other dogs in their space but they won't rush up to another dog to pick a fight. They will react badly to one that rushes up to them.

So they're fine for most of what we do by way of agility training - dogs are usually separated, or run the course one at a time so as long as each dog stays with their boss - it's all good.

Every now and again you get a dog that will forget the boss and go after another dog. Those ones - aren't such good candidates for agility. Not until the running off and attacking random dogs is sorted.

But part of agility training is training your dog to work with you no matter what the distraction - from other dogs, to thrown toys, running people, barking dogs, bowls of food, model planes, possums running across the course, magpies on course. frustrated people having temper tantrums - it all happens...

[Vickie]

With a reactive dog, good engagement is essential. Your dog does not have to meet other dogs, but does need to be able to be around them without causing a problem, so having fun with you, focus and attention on you will help. I think before you try a club atmosphere, you should work on that first. Knowing your dog's critical distance and how to work and keep your dog under threshold is also very important. This will help you to know how much space you need to give other dogs to keep your dog's attention.

It also depends on the club. Some clubs are better than others at educating members about giving space to some dogs, and some clubs are better organised than others.

This

I think it's a good idea to start some foundation exercises for agility at home first...reward system, recall games, startling procedures, building value for a jump etc. there is plenty of information on the Internet to get you started.

That way when you get to take her to club she already has some value for the activities and understands that they will be rewarded.It's also important to go to a club that manages dogs effectively. I would avoid those who encourage dogs to play before & after class.

I teach a number of reactive dogs & we have never even been close to having an incident. Dogs are crated between runs & all emphasis is on strong engagement & focus between dog & handler. Any dog that has a strong history of reactivity starts off with private lessons until they are ready to integrate into class and we make sure that they are placed in a class of already stable & focused dogs.

Hope this helps :) good luck, agility is awesome fun :)

[akristin]

There's lots of dogs around here that don't like other dogs in their space but they won't rush up to another dog to pick a fight. They will react badly to one that rushes up to them.

So they're fine for most of what we do by way of agility training - dogs are usually separated, or run the course one at a time so as long as each dog stays with their boss - it's all good.

Every now and again you get a dog that will forget the boss and go after another dog. Those ones - aren't such good candidates for agility. Not until the running off and attacking random dogs is sorted.

But part of agility training is training your dog to work with you no matter what the distraction - from other dogs, to thrown toys, running people, barking dogs, bowls of food, model planes, possums running across the course, magpies on course. frustrated people having temper tantrums - it all happens...

Thankyou for your insight! Yes, Marley does reasonably well with all sorts of distractions because I take her down to a few of our local parks where there's varying degrees of activities going on like football and soccer matches, cricket practice, kids riding bikes and skate boarding on the concrete areas.. The only distraction I found was with large kites that soar up from the ground she tries to chase them! With other dogs the only problem is really when the dog initially comes into sight however when she knows the particular dog distraction is there and the dog has introduced themselves there's no shift in her focus- we'll have to work on initial distractions...

[akristin]

With a reactive dog, good engagement is essential. Your dog does not have to meet other dogs, but does need to be able to be around them without causing a problem, so having fun with you, focus and attention on you will help. I think before you try a club atmosphere, you should work on that first. Knowing your dog's critical distance and how to work and keep your dog under threshold is also very important. This will help you to know how much space you need to give other dogs to keep your dog's attention.

It also depends on the club. Some clubs are better than others at educating members about giving space to some dogs, and some clubs are better organised than others.

This

I think it's a good idea to start some foundation exercises for agility at home first...reward system, recall games, startling procedures, building value for a jump etc. there is plenty of information on the Internet to get you started.

That way when you get to take her to club she already has some value for the activities and understands that they will be rewarded.It's also important to go to a club that manages dogs effectively. I would avoid those who encourage dogs to play before & after class.

I teach a number of reactive dogs & we have never even been close to having an incident. Dogs are crated between runs & all emphasis is on strong engagement & focus between dog & handler. Any dog that has a strong history of reactivity starts off with private lessons until they are ready to integrate into class and we make sure that they are placed in a class of already stable & focused dogs.

Hope this helps :) good luck, agility is awesome fun :)

Will definitely practice before joining the dog club.. Haha google is now my best friend I've seriously googled non stop these 3 days with methods and initial introduction to agility.. The dog club that I was going to join does have activities of socialisatiin after the classes (what ive been told anyway) I think it's time to search for another club?

Your agility class sounds very effective in keeping the dogs focused! The clubs that I search integrate the beginners class first so all newbies start from the first level..

Thanks for the advice, it helps! Definitely sounds like fun, very keen to start my first dog sport! :D