Wundahoo Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 This puppy may have a problem with the innervation to its pharynx..... possibly a problem called crycopharyngeal dysphagia. I have seen this before. The newborn pup will suckle well but will have milk coming from its nose and may snuffle and splutter. It looks very much like a mildly affected cleft palate puppy which can suckle but gets milk going through the cleft into the nasal area. Puppies with crycopharyngeal dysphagia DO NOT have a cleft anywhere in the palate. However they do have a problem with the coordination of the act of swallowing. Sometimes the correct sequence doesnt happen because the nerves to the muscles which control the act of swallowing are not properly developed. It's all about timing. In order to swallow milk, firstly they must suck until they get a bolus of milk into their mouth. These puppies can do this because they dont have a cleft palate. Once they have a bolus of milk in their mouth they must force the milk into the pharynx, then the oesophagus must open and the trachea must close over so that the milk can enter the oesophagus and flow into the stomach. If the oesophagus doesnt open when it should and at the same time, the tracheal opening remains closed, the milk is forced into the nasopharynx and then through the nostrils because the opening to the oesophagus has not released to allow for the milk to flow into the oesophagus and into the stomach. The milk has to go somewhere and if it cant get through into the oesophagus it will go into the trachea (if this is open when it shouldnt be) or into the nasopharynx and then enter the nasal passages. If the milk comes out of the nose this is not a huge problem, but if it enters the trachea and then the bronchi, the puppy will often die of inhalation pneumonia. Affected puppies that seem to direct the milk through the nose can sometimes do OK either through careful monitoring of their feeding, or by tube feeding until weaning age. Once they have reached weaning age some can be managed on a dry food diet. Some puppies will improve with age and can go on to live normal healthy lives and seem to "grow out" of the problem. There is no predictor for which pups will do well and which will not. It seems to affect some breeds more frequently than others and in my breed I believe that there is a mode of inheritance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thank you Jed and Wundahoo I really appreciate this information. They are 2weeks today. Eyes open trying to stand on wobbly legs and with the tube feeding gaining weight. I feel he is worth a try he is a very strong pup and quite active. Even if he just goes to a loving carer free of charge if he does have a few special needs I know it's not about money with the owner of the mother. I have read where birth defects can be just as common in very young mothers as old mothers. This litter was not ment to happen. But I know myself from experience accidental makings can and do happen. I bred the mother and she is just a year old. The father turns a year today. Will continue with hope for a good outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Some clefts in the soft palate cannot be seen in a live puppy. My vet found some in the hundreds of autopsies she did for her PHD in Puppy Mortality. In some the cleft can only be found at autopsy when the jaw is cut through and opened up. It isn't possible to open a live puppy's mouth that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Some clefts in the soft palate cannot be seen in a live puppy. My vet found some in the hundreds of autopsies she did for her PHD in Puppy Mortality. In some the cleft can only be found at autopsy when the jaw is cut through and opened up. It isn't possible to open a live puppy's mouth that far. Have heard this also. But today I thought well I have nothing to loose so decided to try him on some divetalact with farex and he ate it off a teaspoon very happily he seemed hungry. Have given him 3 feeds today along with tube feeding between. I am still not going to get my hopes up but he does seem to be going ok His owners came to visit today and they will keep him as a pet so at least he will be loved. His sister meanwhile is going great still having tube feedings and what milk her mother has which isn't much but she is gaining well and no problems. He does make a bit of noise like he is congested but the vet said its not coming from his lungs sounded more from nose and the throat and that he also must be getting enough oxygen as gums and tongue are good pink colour no blue tinge. Maybe when he is older it may be possible to know his problem or even better he grows out of it. I keep hoping. Edited March 2, 2014 by mini girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well done Minigirl -- once they begin on solids, it all seems more hopeful. Hope you have success. Thanks for that info Wunda. :) dancingbcs, I have had a couple of pups which died, and after death it was possible to open the mouth enough to see the cleft which had not been visible in life ... couldn' t open the mouth enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 You are putting in so much - it's good you can see him growing :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well done Minigirl -- once they begin on solids, it all seems more hopeful. Hope you have success. Thanks for that info Wunda. :) dancingbcs, I have had a couple of pups which died, and after death it was possible to open the mouth enough to see the cleft which had not been visible in life ... couldn' t open the mouth enough And it is something most vets have never seen unless they deal with a lot of breeders who ask for an autopsy when they lose a puppy. Other possibilities with this puppy if it can eat thicker food is laryngeal paralysis or megaesophagus or some similar congenital defect of the throat. Google them and see if the symptoms match. If they do talk to the vet about it asap. Dogs with these conditions are at huge risk of inhaling liquid and developing pneumonia. They are usually fed wet food with the head expended up, a piece at a time and are not allowed access to water, ever. Keeping a dog like this alive is a full time job but apart from the food/water aspect can be happy and appear normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 This poor little mite would have been given his wings that first day if her were mine .... of course there is a possibility he may be able to survive ... but IMO, breeding is to provide healthy, robust and happy puppies ... Final note on this little fellow It was a long sad struggle and in the end he didn't make it I ended up surrendering to a carer who was wonderful and kept me updated he had a lot of care and veterinary help but developed breathing problems and was lost. I have learned the hard way and although feel we tried so hard if I ever have this particular problem in the future will do as you say and give him his wings early. Thank you for all who did respond during this sad time we went through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 sad for you, but puppy is now free of discomfort and struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 sad for you, but puppy is now free of discomfort and struggling. Thank you totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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