mini girl Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I have been struggling with a puppy for two weeks tomorrow wrote about him in a previous thread. Am helping a new breeder out with her two pups . Since being born he has had milk coming out of the nose whenever he would drink from his mother. I have been tube feeding for nearly two weeks and taken him to the vet a few times to have his lungs checked. One of the vets said that it could be a soft palate problem as he has definitely not got a cleft palate. He is gaining slowly and is very strong, his heart is good and even though he makes a bit of rattling sound when breathing at times especially when he does get on a nipple with mum. Took him to the vet again yesterday morning and she said as his lungs sounded clear sounds like its in his nose or throat. I have been trying to read up on soft palate problems and wonder what is I store for him. I guess at nearly 3 weeks when I try to feed him may tell. I am finding myself wondering if it would have been kinder to let him fade away at a few days but hate to give up on him. The vet that suggested it may be partial loss of the soft palate did say he knew a dog that inI fact had no soft palate and did manage to lead a reasonable life. Anyone out there with experience in this would be wonderful to hear from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I think you need a definitive diagnosis before making any decision. It can be extremely difficult to see a tiny split at the rear of the soft palate in a baby pup, particularly in small breeds. If this is the problem I was told $3000 to a specialist to operate, and because of the soft tissue the stitches could pull out. Try to get a vet to give you an accurate diagnosis. So many things to go wrong!! Breeding is not for the faint hearted! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 What kind of vet specialist would that be. Ear nose throat? Yes agree with you and mostly have had good luck and results rearing my pups. Have bred well over 100 over the years and never have come across this before. Took him to very experienced dog breeder vet as well as the normal. All said no cleft palate anywhere even down the throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I PTS immediately any pups with palate issue or hare lips. I would euth now and focus on the healthy thriving puppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I PTS immediately any pups with palate issue or hare lips. I would euth now and focus on the healthy thriving puppy I agree with this. As hard a decision as this may be. I would find it very hard to sell this puppy knowing there was an issue with him. I think it is unfair to pass the problem on to a new puppy buyer ---- assuming of course that he would be sold or even given away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 I know so well what you mean. I have sadly got so attached to the pup. The pups do not belong to me but will talk to the owner of the bitch. Hard as it sounds sometimes its the only thing to do. One other alternative is to surrender him to Furkids vets also breeders - when speaking to them they said that they can have one of their staff care for a pup like this and they keep it as a pet if it survives being in a vets they would also have access to vetinary help. My husband said we can't not try a bit longer will see how he is when I give him some food if he can get it down. If he can't then we know we have given it our very best shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I don't see the point in putting time and energy into animals that fail tho thrive on their own. It's easy to get attached but surely in the best interests of "dogs" as a whole it's best to let the weak one's go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 This poor little mite would have been given his wings that first day if her were mine .... of course there is a possibility he may be able to survive ... but IMO, breeding is to provide healthy, robust and happy puppies ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 This poor little mite would have been given his wings that first day if her were mine .... of course there is a possibility he may be able to survive ... but IMO, breeding is to provide healthy, robust and happy puppies ... I agree with you but in over100 pups have never struck one like this. Rang my old breeder mentor who has been breeding over 40 years very early and she thought maybe he was just hungry. Spoke to my reproduction vet, 3 other vets from the same practice and vets who are also dog breeders. None said pts. So I have persevered. I am hoping, maybe in vain that coming this far it may be something that improves. I had been hopeful someone may have had a pup that survived this kind of thing to at least give me hope. He is very healthy in every other way. I will just give him his chance and see how he goes when given solid food. If he can't manage to eat then he will have to go. I know it's going to be a heartbreak but I just have to do it in case he can eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Sometimes an animal does need a helping hand to get going & often there is a happy result. Its difficult to be so hard hearted as to practise survival of the fittest, never intervene however you have intervened for quite a while now & not being able to eat & feed is not a little problem & the prognosis for this puppy does not sound good. It may be the kindest thing to euthanise now. Its heartbreaking but sometimes for the best. I have intervened successfully in the past with great results but never for a problem like this one & with this scenario I would PTS I am almost sure its the pits sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 ..maybe I've perservered with too many over the years , only to have them PTS a later stage ..I won't do it nowdays , I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 ..maybe I've perservered with too many over the years , only to have them PTS a later stage ..I won't do it nowdays , I'm afraid. The vet gave this little one a shot & some fluid when she went right downhill & said take her home & try if you wish but she will die. Down to 50 grams 5 days & nights of hourly & 2 hourly feeds 24/7 almost gave up & then she bounced back. Never knew what went wrong 9 years later here she is. Still with me & never had a problem with anything. Sometimes miracles happen :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I often wonder if part of the reason we seem to have so many dogs with health issues is not because breeders struggles with the best of intentions to save them when they probably should have been let go. Unfortunately we don't know if other issues are caused or develop because we are so focused on pushing the pup through the obvious problem that we may overlook other less obvious issues. It almost becomes a badge of honour that we managed to keep the poorly pup alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 I often wonder if part of the reason we seem to have so many dogs with health issues is not because breeders struggles with the best of intentions to save them when they probably should have been let go. Unfortunately we don't know if other issues are caused or develop because we are so focused on pushing the pup through the obvious problem that we may overlook other less obvious issues. It almost becomes a badge of honour that we managed to keep the poorly pup alive. Please don't think l am out for any badge of honour or anything at all like that but he is not my pup at the end of the day to decide I must leave this to his mothers owner to make the final decision. Maybe I am letting emotion get in the way of common sence but I feel I must give him another week and start him on some solid food and see what transpires if it proves to not work out at lease I will know and not always wonder could that pup have come good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 ..maybe I've perservered with too many over the years , only to have them PTS a later stage ..I won't do it nowdays , I'm afraid. The vet gave this little one a shot & some fluid when she went right downhill & said take her home & try if you wish but she will die. Down to 50 grams 5 days & nights of hourly & 2 hourly feeds 24/7 almost gave up & then she bounced back. Never knew what went wrong 9 years later here she is. Still with me & never had a problem with anything. Sometimes miracles happen :) That is a lovely story Christina I would love to think this possible for this baby. I will put it in the hands of the almighty and see what happens. It is not like he is in any pain or discomfort or suffering. If he has to go a week more will be no more or less sad for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 minigirl - yes, I can understand that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I often wonder if part of the reason we seem to have so many dogs with health issues is not because breeders struggles with the best of intentions to save them when they probably should have been let go. Unfortunately we don't know if other issues are caused or develop because we are so focused on pushing the pup through the obvious problem that we may overlook other less obvious issues. It almost becomes a badge of honour that we managed to keep the poorly pup alive. Please don't think l am out for any badge of honour or anything at all like that but he is not my pup at the end of the day to decide I must leave this to his mothers owner to make the final decision. Maybe I am letting emotion get in the way of common sence but I feel I must give him another week and start him on some solid food and see what transpires if it proves to not work out at lease I will know and not always wonder could that pup have come good. Apologies mini girl I was making a general statement rather than directing it at you but I did not make that clear. How you deal with this situation is your choice and not for me or anyone else to condem you for doing whatever you believe is necessary. I can understand your attachment to this pup and particularly as there are only two in the litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I often wonder if part of the reason we seem to have so many dogs with health issues is not because breeders struggles with the best of intentions to save them when they probably should have been let go. Unfortunately we don't know if other issues are caused or develop because we are so focused on pushing the pup through the obvious problem that we may overlook other less obvious issues. It almost becomes a badge of honour that we managed to keep the poorly pup alive. What an odd perception. Badge of honour Of course for some there is no chance, depending on the problem, & its kinder to let them go But there is nothing wrong with giving a helping hand for a short time to see. One reason for poor health in breeds may be that when a breeder has a problem, as I did with that kitten & litter mates, is that they do not desex the parents or even the baby with the problem & continue to breed on from them. That cats mother was never bred from again & neither was her father. The cat herself is desexed too. My take on this is that if the parent has trouble conceiving, whelping or caring for the litter after one or two tries what is the point of breeding from the animal but many breeders do carry on however I can see the point of helping one that is already born if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 I often wonder if part of the reason we seem to have so many dogs with health issues is not because breeders struggles with the best of intentions to save them when they probably should have been let go. Unfortunately we don't know if other issues are caused or develop because we are so focused on pushing the pup through the obvious problem that we may overlook other less obvious issues. It almost becomes a badge of honour that we managed to keep the poorly pup alive. Please don't think l am out for any badge of honour or anything at all like that but he is not my pup at the end of the day to decide I must leave this to his mothers owner to make the final decision. Maybe I am letting emotion get in the way of common sence but I feel I must give him another week and start him on some solid food and see what transpires if it proves to not work out at lease I will know and not always wonder could that pup have come good. Apologies mini girl I was making a general statement rather than directing it at you but I did not make that clear. How you deal with this situation is your choice and not for me or anyone else to condem you for doing whatever you believe is necessary. I can understand your attachment to this pup and particularly as there are only two in the litter. Thank you will let you know how he goes .you just never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 If he has no palate problem, perhaps he is simply drinking the milk too fast. I have had them do that with the bottle, when there has been nothing wrong with them. I have had a few over the years which had problems, but no palate problems could be seen when they were first born - as the puppy grew - and with a torch - it was possible to see a hairline fault at the rear of the palate. On the question of keeping them alive. The outcome is never known when you begin with a puppy with a problem - particulary when you don't know what the problem is. With a hare lip,deviated septum, or palate problem I would probably send them over the bridge. However my experience with "difficult" pups - such as this one - is that I have a good success rate in raising them, albeit with a few more wrinkles and grey hairs. This pup sounds to me as if he is a bit overexcited, and there is no point in a vet saying "he has a palate problem" without being able to point out where the problem is - or what it is. It's easy enough to chuck them on the scrap heap, when with a bit of extra care, they would be have been ok. In the absence of a crystal ball to tell me which is which, I shall continue to give special attention to the difficult ones - where I cannot see any reason for the problem.I think sometimes there is lack of development in some area of the brain, or a minor brain injury which repairs as the pup grows. Perhaps a repro and neo nate specialist would be able to give you better advice. It is so difficult without seeing the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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