Anxiety At Dog Club

[kirst_goldens]

hello!!

My golden has been attacked 3-4 times while at training, twice as a baby and once or twice as an adult as a result now i arrive at dog club (different club) it take her a good 15-20 minutes to relax enough that she will respond and accept a treat. Visibly she looks ok people wonder what im talking about... but i can tell her tiny little signs(ears back, that anxious smile, tail wagging low, panting) that say 'i hate it and if a dog comes close she will have a go at it. she has an attitude of ill get u before u get me, and often the other dog wont have done anything wrong and she will wag her tail etc but if they touch her it will set her off. Because of this i know i am part of the problem and i am working on it, i have sussed out a few nice doggies and owners with good manners etc and i always keep her near these dogs and let her have a quick friendly sniff and reward her very fast with food, pats and a game etc... however i can only do this at the end after training. She also hates the loud dogs who bark non stop at everything we had one in our class and everytime he barked i would spend 5 minutes getting her back in training mode as she would start to stress again. 45 mintues later at the end of the class she is perfectly fine she will lay on the grass and jump in the bath (they have a bath there to cool the dogs off)say hi to a few dogs and wont pull on the lead she is so relaxed.

she was such a happy go lucky girl and i really hate seeing her so scared and worried how can i work on her confidence?

[Erny]

Why make it that you must let other dogs near her (regardless of the fact they are known friendly) or take her up near other dogs?

I'd suggest you begin re-building her trust in you by using distance as your friend and working motivational exercises which yourself and your Golden share the fun and joy of. Let her begin to relax at training by building her understanding that *presence* of other dogs does not equate to an anticipation of "pressure", which is what she would be feeling at the moment. Give her time to learn that *presence* is ok, before you begin to focus on *proximity*.

[Leah82]

Does the club you go to have yellow bandanas for dogs that need a bit of space? This would tell other handlers not to approach you and your dog without asking permission.

A lot of people assume the yellow bandana means the dog is aggressive but there are a number of reasons a dog may need space and your example would fit the bill perfectly.

In regards to noisy dogs, this tends to go away in the more advanced obedience classes, so do lots of practice at home and get your girl up through the ranks as quickly as possible

[kirst_goldens]

It's funny Erny, she acts like she really wants to play she will drag me over to the other dogs and happy and overly excitable and then freak out when we get there so should I allow this or just keep her away for a while?? It's almost like she has forgotten how to meet friends and play? She is fine with my boy and several other dogs she has grown up with and also doesn't have this reaction to goldens she seems to be a bit breedist lol

I have thought about the yellow bandana I'll ask them on Wednesday night :)

I need to work on proximity for the sit stay group exercise at CCD level, she has started a bit of this already but I have to really watch the class and pick the dogs to sit between or I can see her shutting down as she sits there and she will drop and refuse to recall - should I put more of a distance to start and build up to the correct distance?

[Leah82]

I wouldn't let her drag you over to meet dogs, if you are in control of all her doggy interactions then this should help her confidence. It sounds like she's not particularly sure about her own choices so best to take them away altogether and have her rely on and focus on you more.

Edit: not sure about the sit stay and recall, personally I would get the skill down and slowly introduce distractions, which in this case would be decreasing the distance between her and other dogs

Edited February 24, 2014 by Leah82

[Staffyluv]

I wouldn't let her drag you over to meet dogs, if you are in control of all her doggy interactions then this should help her confidence. It sounds like she's not particularly sure about her own choices so best to take them away altogether and have her rely on and focus on you more.

Edit: not sure about the sit stay and recall, personally I would get the skill down and slowly introduce distractions, which in this case would be decreasing the distance between her and other dogs

I agree with this..

Also as stated above - I would be working on your relationship with the dog. So that she feels comfortable no matter what other dogs or things are around..

You can be away from other dogs - we have a couple of dogs that have issues around other dogs. So their owners take both ends of the line of dogs.. They both stand further away than the rest of us stand..

I used to stand about 10 metres away from our class when he was younger because he was so dog focused and didn't listen to a thing I said.. As he got better, we moved closer and closer to the class..

[persephone]

Regarding her advanced training ... perhaps in the long run it would be more beneficial to help her with the anxiety/confusion ..and so become calm and confident enough to attempt this training at a later date ?

it's like working with a human who has PTSD ... baby steps..and lots of support before being put into a confronting place maybe ?

[kirst_goldens]

thanks guys :) I dont let her drag me over, but she tries! i pretty much just avoid it all at the moment but want to know that i was doing the right thing!

i get annoyed when i ask people to give her some space and say she has been attacked and needs some room etc and they say 'oh but ralph is really friendly!' sigh!!!! i found Black dog have a harness looking vesty thing that is yellow and says please give me space i might look into that as u can clearly see what it says, i always bring her soft crate if i will need to leave her to avoid tying her up and leaving her unprotected and out in the open.

she has only done four weeks at dog club but is advancing at a really fast pace, should i maybe stay on the one level longer and work on her confidence? i dont want her to get bored is all... so hard to keep her interested as it is!

[Erny]

It's funny Erny, she acts like she really wants to play she will drag me over to the other dogs and happy and overly excitable and then freak out when we get there so should I allow this or just keep her away for a while??

Keep her away - just outside her reaction threshold (even though it does appear as excitement/play). Work for "neutralisation" rather than "socialisation" per se and begin to teach her self control and appropriate approach - and these two things come from being calm and that's something you need to teach her first. Being calm in approach has her thinking in her front brain rather than in the hind brain and will see her taking her time to assessing a situation before she gets there, rather than getting there and then freaking out because she is so uncertain.

ETA: If she's ready for the next level of training then don't hold her back. Use your training to keep her mentally stimulated and occupied. If you hold her back, she'll be bored (finding the exercises too easy) and will have more time to focus on her worries over the proximity of other dogs. Work with her so that YOU are the one she is excited and happy to be with, rather than her preferring to investigate other dogs. Also, maintain a sense of realistic expectations on your part. Ask for what you know she is capable of giving taking into account the different environments you are in at any given time.

Having said that, make sure your training is solid before you move on. "Too far, too fast" is a problem I often see and results in training falling apart and problems setting in.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Erny

[Staffyluv]

It's funny Erny, she acts like she really wants to play she will drag me over to the other dogs and happy and overly excitable and then freak out when we get there so should I allow this or just keep her away for a while??

Keep her away - just outside her reaction threshold (even though it does appear as excitement/play). Work for "neutralisation" rather than "socialisation" per se and begin to teach her self control and appropriate approach - and these two things come from being calm and that's something you need to teach her first. Being calm in approach has her thinking in her front brain rather than in the hind brain and will see her taking her time to assessing a situation before she gets there, rather than getting there and then freaking out because she is so uncertain.

ETA: If she's ready for the next level of training then don't hold her back. Use your training to keep her mentally stimulated and occupied. If you hold her back, she'll be bored (finding the exercises too easy) and will have more time to focus on her worries over the proximity of other dogs. Work with her so that YOU are the one she is excited and happy to be with, rather than her preferring to investigate other dogs. Also, maintain a sense of realistic expectations on your part. Ask for what you know she is capable of giving taking into account the different environments you are in at any given time.

Having said that, make sure your training is solid before you move on. "Too far, too fast" is a problem I often see and results in training falling apart and problems setting in.

Exactly my point - you are at training, not at a trial and it doesn't matter what level you are at, you don't have to stand right in the group.

Stand your ground with 'friendly owners' - tell them, no - don't come closer, she needs space.. Firm but polite, will get you what you need.. You also don't have to explain why she needs space.. People should respect that you know what is best for your dog and act accordingly..

Zig is so much calmer after learning he can be in a group without being in every dogs face. He is the friendly mutt.. Working outside our group and getting closer and closer as his behaviour improved has what has made it possible for him to sit in a group of dogs, without running up to each of them (even off lead).

[Erny]

Stand your ground with 'friendly owners' - tell them, no - don't come closer, she needs space.. Firm but polite, will get you what you need.. You also don't have to explain why she needs space.. People should respect that you know what is best for your dog and act accordingly..

Yes - and if those people don't respect your request that they don't approach closer, walk away with your Goldie before the threshold is breached. You are your Goldie's "voice" and it's up to you to stand up for her when others disrespect even a polite request to give space. Your Goldie needs the space she needs, so take it for her if need be.

Zig is so much calmer after learning he can be in a group without being in every dogs face. He is the friendly mutt.. Working outside our group and getting closer and closer as his behaviour improved has what has made it possible for him to sit in a group of dogs, without running up to each of them (even off lead).

This is exactly it. Where I find people fall down with this is that they just don't seem to 'get' that by doing nothing they are doing something, and in the best way possible. They think that because they're dog is not reacting and seemingly indifferent, they should push the threshold until the dog does react ….. and THEN try to deal with it. It is quite the opposite until the dog has properly learnt that working with the owner is the best fun and that other dogs are, in effect, neither here nor there.

[Staffyluv]

I used to get so frustrated being way out of the class but we slowly moved closer and closer and by the end of beginners (just 8 weeks), he could sit in the group of dogs and not want to get in each and every one of their faces..

See I have the opposite problem - I have that overly friendly dog.. That dog that will get right up in another dogs space..

He needed to learn that it was OK to just be around the other dogs without doing that. It was hard for us because everyone knew he was super friendly and submissive, so they all wanted to socialise with him - this used to throw his excitement levels off the scale..

He came first in his beginners obedience assessment. So it can be done... Patience, persistence and use your voice or walk away from the others..

[kirst_goldens]

an update! we have been to four classes since i posted and she is doing so much better i have found that she is great if i stay out on the grass, the club room is too much for her which sucks because thats where the water trough is lol so i have to take a bowl for her but thats fine! she is doing much better in class now with the other dogs she still gets a bit over excited and tries to drag me but i am working on her focus, in the show ring i say 'whats this?' and she looks at my hand and shows expression etc so for obedience i say 'watch' and reward her for looking me in the eye. I have found she is dropping off interest and enthusiasm in class now her heeling is a bit slow and she is moving further and further away from me as a result we are now stuck in our class and she is getting bored doing the same stuff over and over. she is great at home and if she is lacking i just let my boy out while we train and the competition seems to get her moving as she wants to do better them him even though i totally ignore him lol not sure how to handle this in class though? i am doing lots of high happy talking and praise etc... her main motivator is food - she will tug like a mad woman at home or away from the group when its just me and her but she wont play when we are with the class even if a distance away, now the instructors are telling me to feed her less but im worried if i do she will drift off into no mans land and ill never get her back

any ideas? am i doing something wrong or is there pressure im not seeing that i need to relieve? i used to say her name and she would react like ok im ready, now she is staring off into the distance... she does love to work so i really hope i can get her past all this, thanks everyone :):)

[kirst_goldens]

an update! we have been to four classes since i posted and she is doing so much better i have found that she is great if i stay out on the grass, the club room is too much for her which sucks because thats where the water trough is lol so i have to take a bowl for her but thats fine! she is doing much better in class now with the other dogs she still gets a bit over excited and tries to drag me but i am working on her focus, in the show ring i say 'whats this?' and she looks at my hand and shows expression etc so for obedience i say 'watch' and reward her for looking me in the eye. I have found she is dropping off interest and enthusiasm in class now her heeling is a bit slow and she is moving further and further away from me as a result we are now stuck in our class and she is getting bored doing the same stuff over and over. she is great at home and if she is lacking i just let my boy out while we train and the competition seems to get her moving as she wants to do better them him even though i totally ignore him lol not sure how to handle this in class though? i am doing lots of high happy talking and praise etc... her main motivator is food - she will tug like a mad woman at home or away from the group when its just me and her but she wont play when we are with the class even if a distance away, now the instructors are telling me to feed her less but im worried if i do she will drift off into no mans land and ill never get her back

any ideas? am i doing something wrong or is there pressure im not seeing that i need to relieve? i used to say her name and she would react like ok im ready, now she is staring off into the distance... she does love to work so i really hope i can get her past all this, thanks everyone :):)

[kirst_goldens]

an update! we have been to four classes since i posted and she is doing so much better i have found that she is great if i stay out on the grass, the club room is too much for her which sucks because thats where the water trough is lol so i have to take a bowl for her but thats fine! she is doing much better in class now with the other dogs she still gets a bit over excited and tries to drag me but i am working on her focus, in the show ring i say 'whats this?' and she looks at my hand and shows expression etc so for obedience i say 'watch' and reward her for looking me in the eye. I have found she is dropping off interest and enthusiasm in class now her heeling is a bit slow and she is moving further and further away from me as a result we are now stuck in our class and she is getting bored doing the same stuff over and over. she is great at home and if she is lacking i just let my boy out while we train and the competition seems to get her moving as she wants to do better them him even though i totally ignore him lol not sure how to handle this in class though? i am doing lots of high happy talking and praise etc... her main motivator is food - she will tug like a mad woman at home or away from the group when its just me and her but she wont play when we are with the class even if a distance away, now the instructors are telling me to feed her less but im worried if i do she will drift off into no mans land and ill never get her back

any ideas? am i doing something wrong or is there pressure im not seeing that i need to relieve? i used to say her name and she would react like ok im ready, now she is staring off into the distance... she does love to work so i really hope i can get her past all this, thanks everyone :):)

[Nekhbet]

Dont put focus on command or it becomes provisional. Build your focus into your commands and everything you do. So your heeling, short fast bursts that engage the dog. Remember too heeling is NOT a walking command it is a positioning command, start stock still and just move your right leg around keeping the dogs focus - Mark - reward with food ONLY if she's giving focus. Put tighter parameters on the behavior. Keep the heeling dynamic, say 3 steps, fast sit WOW YES! Then heel backwards. Then sideways. Excitement from you will help a lot and encouraging speed will keep her interested.

How do you actually train?

[kirst_goldens]

Not really sure how to describe how I train? Positive reinforcement and tug games etc at home I use class basically as a way to have the trainers see what we have worked on and see if they suggest improvements etc it learn a new exercise all the work is done at home, she is ace at home but the issue is more at training, even on her own at training she is better then in the group, she did really great one minute drop and sit stays tonight, the trainer decided to put extra pressure on and walk behind the dogs during the sit and she got up but I just put her back in place seeing as this is not done etc

[Staffyluv]

For the water issue, we use a water bottle with a pop up top - I keep it behind us in class, so it is near whenever he wants a drink.. I just squirt it and he drinks it like drinking from a hose..

I do a bit of static work with Zig in class (I think most dogs get bored in a class environment, when not 'working'). We also do quiet tricks (like pick the hand the treat is in). His favourite at the moment is springing from heel position to front, then do a return back to heel..

Zig is also having fun with the dumbell retrieve and sometimes in class, I will toss it just half a metre in front, let him retrieve it, give it and return to heel (we are usually at the end of the group when doing this one as it can be distracting for some other dogs).

Another of his fave things is to catch stuff - so I might use his tennis ball or a tiny bit of treat and say 'ready' when he focuses, I count to three and toss it on three - he jumps to catch it..

This stuff just breaks up the formal training and stops him getting bored..

Maybe give her less food or no meal at the meal before training.

Zig would get half a meal the night before training and never have breakfast (we train at 10am on Sundays) - this was the only way, I could get him to work for food..

However, I usually only train with tools, not food as he will always work for his tennis ball or a game of tug...

It sounds like you are making great progress..

[kirst_goldens]

Sorry for the delay in reply!!

I do try to keep her doing fun stuff when we arnt actively working but as a first time obedience person I also really need to listen to what the instructor is saying, I have taken two weeks off seeing as they arnt letting us progress in classes until testing day it's not an issue so hopeful she will be happy and keen again after a break

Want her to get up into the next class so I can start training my boy, he actually NEEDS to be trained lol

Thanks for all the help I appreciate it

[Erny]

I think you should be focusing on the behaviour problem first, worry about the sits, drops, recalls etc. later. You can always get private lessons for the latter to keep that side of things going. But over pushing your dog for the sake of instruction in sit, drop, etc. is going to regress progress on the behaviour aspect.