Additional Nutrients/medications For Older Dog With Arthritis

[Airedaler]

I would replace some of the kibble with more vegetables (preferably minced or crushed up) as these are anti imflamatory.

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

I've just switched Zeke onto Paws Osteocare powder. Will let you know my opinion in a week or so when I've had to judge the effectiveness.

I definitely think joint problems are one of those things where different dogs react better to different products. I've had customers at work swear by all different brands. Sasha's blend/pearnease powder is still a popular one but the Rose-hip vital is taking off, too.

[Christina77]

Thank you , have ordered the Rosehip ( got free postage offer after I forgot to finish the check out system as I was just comparing prices so they send me an email with free postage code ( Vet Products Direct )

I'll get the fishoil this week and add some more vegies , easy as / Let's hope it works both for weight loss and her sore leggies .

[trifecta]

Thank you , have ordered the Rosehip ( got free postage offer after I forgot to finish the check out system as I was just comparing prices so they send me an email with free postage code ( Vet Products Direct )

I have been buying from Stefmar on e-bay. 2 x 500g RHVC powder for $174.00 including postage

Steve, re the turmeric capsules, what dosage do you recommend? I was using it for a 36kg dog with cancer (who is no longer with us) giving 500mg capsule once daily. (Sorry to hijack thread!)

Getting back to arthritis, I would also advocate Bowen therapy from time to time.

[Steve]

Thank you , have ordered the Rosehip ( got free postage offer after I forgot to finish the check out system as I was just comparing prices so they send me an email with free postage code ( Vet Products Direct )

I have been buying from Stefmar on e-bay. 2 x 500g RHVC powder for $174.00 including postage

Steve, re the turmeric capsules, what dosage do you recommend? I was using it for a 36kg dog with cancer (who is no longer with us) giving 500mg capsule once daily. (Sorry to hijack thread!)

Getting back to arthritis, I would also advocate Bowen therapy from time to time.

I use the powder - each capsule has about 1/2 a teaspoonful and I recommend a level teaspoon which is about 2 capsules of turmeric powder in a cup and add a dash of freshly cracked pepper and a dessert spoon of Olive Oil,coconut oil or linseed oil Both the cracked pepper and oil increases the absorption of turmeric. These oils also have high omega 3s and low omega 6s which is best as high omega 6's can make inflammation worse

Pour boiling water over these ingredients until the cup is 1/3 full and then leave it to sit for a few minutes. Split this into half of the liquid given twice daily. You can add it to anything to make the dog more interested such as stock cubes add it to other food etc but most like it as it comes.

I caution against using vitamin C for dogs for more than a few days.

[Christina77]

I've been doing some more research and I don't think the Joint Saver Plus My link

I have been getting is what my dog needs , I noticed you mention the caution on Vit C Steve and this mix contains Vit C and I was starting to increase her dose to 1stp in the morning and 1tsp at night .

I'm after something that contains

Glucosamine

Vit a & E

Manganese

Boswelling

Yucco

Omega 3 , 6

Unfortunatly not knowing Brand names etc it's starting to get difficult to find something that contains these , or find products that fully list their ingredients so would someone know how I can find something that has these ingredients AND if I'm on the right track?

I read the article on My link

Also Steve if I try your Tumeric suggestion could I still use what I'm looking for in the above description ? Is it safe to combine that with Tumeric ?

Bear with me please while I read up about things :) does this link contain accurate info on theuse of Tumeric ? My link

Edited February 23, 2014 by Christina77

[trifecta]

I'm after something that contains

Glucosamine

Vit a & E

Manganese

Boswelling

Yucco

Omega 3 , 6

Unfortunatly not knowing Brand names etc it's starting to get difficult to find something that contains these , or find products that fully list their ingredients so would someone know how I can find something that has these ingredients AND if I'm on the right track?

You mean something like Synflex for dogs?

[Steve]

My link This one would be better but Ive never seen it in Australia.

Re Vitamin C - This is one of the big ways that dogs are not like humans. If humans dont eat foods or have supps with vitamin C they get sick and can die because they dont manufacture their own vitamin C within their body. Dogs however do manufacture their own vitamin C . Typically the dog makes as much vitamin C as it needs by using other nutrients it takes in via diet .When you supplement vitamin C for a dog the dogs own ability to do so is shut down - sometimes permanently. The liver and kidney of a dog do not handle an extra concentration of vitamin C and The dog's system works to rid itself of the over abundance , causing stress to the organs.A long-term excess of vitamin C can result in kidney and liver damage, which can threaten the dog's life and what you supplement is a different form to the one the dog makes for itself.

Now having said that - vitamin C can help dogs which are under stress , have an infection or an injury but it should be used as a medicine and only given for a few days. You shouldn't give it to your dog especially for a lengthy period without vet advice. It can work as an anti inflammatory and antioxidant but long term use is not something I recommend for anyone to play with for dogs without serious consideration for the alternatives first. If a dog isn't making enough Vitamin C then we should be looking at how its diet is deficient and not enabling it to produce it and fixing that rather than just trying to supplement it.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Steve

[kamuzz]

Interesting Steve. That would mean that the Canine Rose Hip Vital is not a good idea long-term.

[Steve]

Interesting Steve. That would mean that the Canine Rose Hip Vital is not a good idea long-term.

That is my opinion - but I know there are many here who disagree.

[ness]

The amount of vitamin C in the RHVC is only small and a number of other foods you also may feed your dog may contain small trace amounts of vitamin C. Plenty of people will have their dogs on various dry foods and if you look you will find they contain vitamin C.

eg Two examples of popular foods fed both of which contain vitamin C Holistic Select/Black Hawk

You will also find that small doses of vitamin C are present in at least 4 of the other well known and highly recommended joint supplements.

Edited February 24, 2014 by ness

[Steve]

The amount of vitamin C in the RHVC is only small and a number of other foods you also may feed your dog may contain small trace amounts of vitamin C. Plenty of people will have their dogs on various dry foods and if you look you will find they contain vitamin C.

eg Two examples of popular foods fed both of which contain vitamin C Holistic Select/Black Hawk

You will also find that small doses of vitamin C are present in at least 4 of the other well known and highly recommended joint supplements.

Yep you're right and that product is not JUST vitamin C - but when you have a dog that's helped by giving it vitamin C Id prefer that it was not a constant daily supplement that's all. On and off is better so the dog still remembers how to make the stuff itself. Any vitamin C in commercially made dog foods are long gone because its destroyed by heat and storage. Feeding fresh foods with vitamin C in is also usually not constant and small amounts with other nutrients needed to help it move out without causing as much damage. Im not saying this product or any other isnt a good thing Im suggesting that its not good given daily indefinitely for dogs without vet advice.

[ness]

You do come across as suggesting any product isn't good if it has any vitamin C - there are many such products that do and they don't do the dogs any harm and the benefit is huge. I would hate for people to be completely turned off even trying a product because they misunderstood and were fearful of a tiny dose of vitamin C based on reading your response and it has happened in other threads.

Its not a product specific issue either as i already said there are lots of very good joint supplements which contain a small quantity of vitamin C. Just as there are raw diets which also contain a small dose of vitamin C eg the vets all natural range.

Edited February 24, 2014 by ness

[Steve]

You do come across as suggesting any product isn't good if it has any vitamin C - there are many such products that do and they don't do the dogs any harm and the benefit is huge. I would hate for people to be completely turned off even trying a product because they misunderstood and were fearful of a tiny dose of vitamin C based on reading your response and it has happened in other threads.

Its not a product specific issue either as i already said there are lots of very good joint supplements which contain a small quantity of vitamin C. Just as there are raw diets which also contain a small dose of vitamin C eg the vets all natural range.

If people feel their dogs need extra vitamin C they need to consider why the dog cant make enough of its own and be aware that feeding vitamin C sups daily over a long time may have health risks associated which wont show for some time .Dogs are supposed to make enough vitamin C to give them all they need and if you give them this daily there are risks associated with that. I'm just the messenger. Dogs really do make their own vitamin C - as much as their bodies need and giving the supps over a long period of time makes them stop being able to make it themselves and makes their bodies have to work hard to get rid of any that they dont need - this puts pressure on kidneys and livers especially on a daily basis. .it should not be given to them every day for a long period of time. If you want to give it to them in short bursts or irregularly that's completely different to daily and for extended periods with out vet advice.

I would prefer people be fearful and check with their vets first. So its not about any product that has vit C in it it - its about how its used and how often its used for dogs.

[ness]

Each to their own - not going to argue the point anymore but maybe you should also jump in on the food threads and suggest people better also check before they intend on starting any diets which might have vitamin C added no matter what the quantity then if it really is as you say and such a problem for a dog. I don't think any of the joint supplements profess to be vitamin C supplements and potentially in huge quantities you might encounter a problem but I would suspect the percentage of vitamin C contained in the products as a percent of the amount a dog requires isn't great.

It could also be argued that a dog who is clearly suffering arthritic type symptoms is under stress so therefore could possibly benefit from supplementation since the body under stressful conditions will be depleted of vitamin C. I guess that is why it might be recommended for dogs undertaking performance activities because they are working and placing their bodies under physical stress to. There is also evidence that a dogs body doesn't produce as much vitamin C as it ages - again maybe a case in favour of having it included in a joint supplement for older dogs suffering from arthritis.

[Steve]

Each to their own - not going to argue the point anymore but maybe you should also jump in on the food threads and suggest people better also check before they intend on starting any diets which might have vitamin C added no matter what the quantity then if it really is as you say and such a problem for a dog. I don't think any of the joint supplements profess to be vitamin C supplements and potentially in huge quantities you might encounter a problem but I would suspect the percentage of vitamin C contained in the products as a percent of the amount a dog requires isn't great.

It could also be argued that a dog who is clearly suffering arthritic type symptoms is under stress so therefore could possibly benefit from supplementation since the body under stressful conditions will be depleted of vitamin C. I guess that is why it might be recommended for dogs undertaking performance activities because they are working and placing their bodies under physical stress to. There is also evidence that a dogs body doesn't produce as much vitamin C as it ages - again maybe a case in favour of having it included in a joint supplement for older dogs suffering from arthritis.

Yes but its all maybe and requires a vet to tick off whether one dog or another should be taking extra doses daily over a long period of time. I didnt say no matter what the quantity and it really is as I say - dogs are supposed to make their own vitamin C from other nutrients in their diet - it produces more in times of greater need such as hard work or stress etc. How much is in the product you give and how much would your dog ordinarily produce on its own?

And it doesnt need to be argued that dogs suffering arthritis etc are under stress because I and everyone else agree and they will do benefit by an addition of vitamin C to bring it back to a point where its able to cope and produce its own - Im saying dont use it over extended periods without vet advice - not never use it but its should be treated as if its a medicine and not a food when its given in this manner for dogs.

[ness]

Ok Steve i just found a website that suggests your dog makes about 18mg per lb of body weight a day. Taking my youngest girl as an example she is about 29lb so is therefore making 522mg of vitamin C a day. The amount of vitamin C in her size dosage of RHVC a day (since that is the product I use is 2.5mg). Not sure we are talking about a real significant amount.

[Dr Bruce Syme]

I'd increase the raw food, and just use the kibble in her kong toy. Natural ingredients like shark cartilage, green lipped mussel, ginger, omega 3 are all of benefit (see info attached). Magnetic collars can also be very effective (in some cases). Perhaps consider moving to a specific diet for Joint Support.

Arthritis treatment.pdf

[Dr Bruce Syme]

Vitamin C does act as an anti-oxidant, which will have anti-inflammatory properties above and beyonds its nutritional value, which is why you will find it in many foods, and joint support products. If your dog is getting too much, he/she will simply pass it in the urine.

[Lucy Woo]

Recently my vet recommended Glyde powder for dogs for my German Shepherd (Cheppy). I was bit hesitant to buy it as it is a little pricey but gave it a go anyways......and Im glad I did! Glyde has really worked for Cheppy, he is so much more active and not stiff (the poor thing). He's like a pup again :) I also put him on diet which helped too.