Dogs Queensland Wanting To Restrict The Limit Register

[JessicaM]

I dont have a problem with people who breed pets, it annoys me when I see the same kennels advertise pups every 4 months of a new litter and all go on LR with no requirements of desexing... they are part of the reason we are getting those stupid oodle cross things now. They are just in it for money. That is another story and we all have those people in our breeds lol

Yes it is a worry what is going to happen, my breed we dont really have a colour problem but I feel sorry for the breeders who do. You can only do the best for your dogs and even sometimes all the time and effort you put in isn't enough

[dragonwoman]

Discussing this topic with long term breeder the other day, they had a different slant, more I think about it, the more sense it makes, her solution was to make limited registration of new puppies DEARER than main...........................still thinking about it but it..........................

[oakway]

It has nothing to do with Main or limited register.

It is all to do with people that want a pet pup and do NOT WANT TO SHOW.

When this happens some breeders put the pups on the limited register. If the bitch had six and we keep two what do you think we do with the other four ?. You really don't think breeders put them on the main register, (when we are continually warned about BYB's and Puppy Farmers getting hold of them) do you. Of course you don't you possibly do as most of us do, render them useless for breeding and then put them on the main register and sell them and hope that the new owner may show at a later date in the neuter class as they have a main register puppy. Any puppy not suitable for main is neutered and placed on the limited register.

Take a big look around and just see how many new/young people there is showing. Not a lot !!!!!!!.

It appears that most people want a healthy well reared pure bred puppy to have as a pet, to love and grow old with, not to show.

We as breeders have lots of pups that are capable of winning in the show ring but we can not MAKE their owners show them so we the breeders and the owners do the next best thing for them....they de sex them and give them great lives as loving companions.

[Angeluca]

I must be in minority, I breed and sell on limited, if asked about main for breeding a few nice questions and information about health testing, politics (certain people out their who don't like the prefixs in my dogs), ANKC eithics, genetics and then financial aspect (health test, prog testing stud fees and c sections) and ask then is that something they want to do. If they are keen and seem to have a financial income that would support the worst case scenario we go to the next step of if I have a quality pup available. This may take a few phone calls and or meetings but its no different to selling a pet pup, you gotta trust a pet pup is going to be looked after.

It is not that hard,

As for showing there are a lot of forums out their the bitching and politics is there for all to see, why would anyone want to get involved in that. No one want to show cause it isn't fun and thats how Most show people have made it. And thats not even getting into show fixing. It cost a lot of money to show, fees transport grooming just to name a few. Who the hell wants to go to all that trouble to go to a show to see the same dog win all the time. Sometimes the so called corruption is rubbish and sometimes its just thats damn obvious.

I saw on FB show people site people talking of a exbitior yelling at a judge no repercussions for it. And speaking of overweight dogs winning BIS as they always do.

Why would anyone want to do that.

As for obedience that is a long time worth of effort, and life is busy these days I have trouble keeping up with training.

[sandgrubber]

.....

However, in those days, every fourth person who wanted a pup didn't want to make lots of bucks studding their second rate dog, or breeding 10 litters out of their bitch to recoup the purchase price.

Perhaps it varies by breed, but I think this is a gross exaggeration.

When I lived in WA I registered around 100 pups. I was entirely consistent. If people wanted main register, I agreed to switch after the dog or bitch was evaluated at 1 year. If hips and elbows were above breed average and eye tests ok, and the dog didn't look awful, I would grant main register. Only TWO of the pups I sold, one bitch and one dog, were switched to Main, and the dog was only used at stud twice. The bitch went on to establish a line that some would call BYB pups -- no showing, but not bad looking dogs and decent healthy pets -- I have no problem with that.

When I bred my first litter, in 2005, pedigree Labrador pups were going for $600 in the Perth metro area. Now they are going for $1800. This would not be happening if a large number of people were trying to recoup the purchase price.

If there's a choice between retaining genetic diversity, by breeding from stock who are not the type-of-the-year or whose owners are not interested in showing, or restricting breeding to the creme de la creme, I know where I'm going to cast my vote.

p.s. I had more problems in the opposite direction. There were a few dogs I would have loved to see the owners keep entire so they might have been used at stud. But no, most puppy buyers want to desex.

Edited March 3, 2014 by sandgrubber

[Steve]

.....

However, in those days, every fourth person who wanted a pup didn't want to make lots of bucks studding their second rate dog, or breeding 10 litters out of their bitch to recoup the purchase price.

Perhaps it varies by breed, but I think this is a gross exaggeration.

When I lived in WA I registered around 100 pups. I was entirely consistent. If people wanted main register, I agreed to switch after the dog or bitch was evaluated at 1 year. If hips and elbows were above breed average and eye tests ok, and the dog didn't look awful, I would grant main register. Only TWO of the pups I sold, one bitch and one dog, were switched to Main, and the dog was only used at stud twice. The bitch went on to establish a line that some would call BYB pups -- no showing, but not bad looking dogs and decent healthy pets -- I have no problem with that.

When I bred my first litter, in 2005, pedigree Labrador pups were going for $600 in the Perth metro area. Now they are going for $1800. This would not be happening if a large number of people were trying to recoup the purchase price.

If there's a choice between retaining genetic diversity, by breeding from stock who are not the type-of-the-year or whose owners are not interested in showing, or restricting breeding to the creme de la creme, I know where I'm going to cast my vote.

p.s. I had more problems in the opposite direction. There were a few dogs I would have loved to see the owners keep entire so they might have been used at stud. But no, most puppy buyers want to desex.

Yep agreed. If you have everyone in a breed breeding the same dogs the same way all breeding for the same thing an elite few have determined is what is best for the breed - it isn't what is best for the breed .It keeps the gene pool small, keeps new people out if they don't suit the core group criteria.

[Jed]

.....

However, in those days, every fourth person who wanted a pup didn't want to make lots of bucks studding their second rate dog, or breeding 10 litters out of their bitch to recoup the purchase price.

Perhaps it varies by breed, but I think this is a gross exaggeration.

When I lived in WA I registered around 100 pups. I was entirely consistent. If people wanted main register, I agreed to switch after the dog or bitch was evaluated at 1 year. If hips and elbows were above breed average and eye tests ok, and the dog didn't look awful, I would grant main register. Only TWO of the pups I sold, one bitch and one dog, were switched to Main, and the dog was only used at stud twice. The bitch went on to establish a line that some would call BYB pups -- no showing, but not bad looking dogs and decent healthy pets -- I have no problem with that.

When I bred my first litter, in 2005, pedigree Labrador pups were going for $600 in the Perth metro area. Now they are going for $1800. This would not be happening if a large number of people were trying to recoup the purchase price.

If there's a choice between retaining genetic diversity, by breeding from stock who are not the type-of-the-year or whose owners are not interested in showing, or restricting breeding to the creme de la creme, I know where I'm going to cast my vote.

p.s. I had more problems in the opposite direction. There were a few dogs I would have loved to see the owners keep entire so they might have been used at stud. But no, most puppy buyers want to desex.

Of course it was an exaggeration!! However, if you breed a breed beloved of puppy farmerS, many of the enquiries are not from people wanting pets, they are from people wanting to breed, but they don't want to tell you that, nor do they want you to mentor them; they want to continue their dodgy ways, with the pup you sold them and they wanted the papers because they can get more for the pups if they are registered. There was a lovely lady with a little boy going around looking for a pet for him. She bought 7 altogether.

What a lucky little boy he is.

Are you sure none of your Labradors are not in dodgy breeding establishments, Sandgrubber? How do you know?

I haven't got a problem with genuine people buying my pups and breeding them.

Sadly, there are very few genuine people out there wanting to breed to improve the breed. I received 86 emails for the last litter I advertised, all seeking pets (or so they said). When I said the pups were not for breeding, the interest reduced drastically.

I don't think selling a pup to a 200 dog puppy farm does anything to widen the gene pool.

[oakway]

.....

However, in those days, every fourth person who wanted a pup didn't want to make lots of bucks studding their second rate dog, or breeding 10 litters out of their bitch to recoup the purchase price.

Perhaps it varies by breed, but I think this is a gross exaggeration.

When I lived in WA I registered around 100 pups. I was entirely consistent. If people wanted main register, I agreed to switch after the dog or bitch was evaluated at 1 year. If hips and elbows were above breed average and eye tests ok, and the dog didn't look awful, I would grant main register. Only TWO of the pups I sold, one bitch and one dog, were switched to Main, and the dog was only used at stud twice. The bitch went on to establish a line that some would call BYB pups -- no showing, but not bad looking dogs and decent healthy pets -- I have no problem with that.

When I bred my first litter, in 2005, pedigree Labrador pups were going for $600 in the Perth metro area. Now they are going for $1800. This would not be happening if a large number of people were trying to recoup the purchase price.

If there's a choice between retaining genetic diversity, by breeding from stock who are not the type-of-the-year or whose owners are not interested in showing, or restricting breeding to the creme de la creme, I know where I'm going to cast my vote.

p.s. I had more problems in the opposite direction. There were a few dogs I would have loved to see the owners keep entire so they might have been used at stud. But no, most puppy buyers want to desex.

Of course it was an exaggeration!! However, if you breed a breed beloved of puppy farmerS, many of the enquiries are not from people wanting pets, they are from people wanting to breed, but they don't want to tell you that, nor do they want you to mentor them; they want to continue their dodgy ways, with the pup you sold them and they wanted the papers because they can get more for the pups if they are registered. There was a lovely lady with a little boy going around looking for a pet for him. She bought 7 altogether.

What a lucky little boy he is.

Are you sure none of your Labradors are not in dodgy breeding establishments, Sandgrubber? How do you know?

I haven't got a problem with genuine people buying my pups and breeding them.

Sadly, there are very few genuine people out there wanting to breed to improve the breed. I received 86 emails for the last litter I advertised, all seeking pets (or so they said). When I said the pups were not for breeding, the interest reduced drastically.

I don't think selling a pup to a 200 dog puppy farm does anything to widen the gene pool.

Now Aint that the truth.!!!!!.

It happens here a lot of the time and the new so called PET purchases soon disappear when told pets only leave here de sexed.

As so many of us say......it has nothing to do with what register they are put on. It is more to do with the lack of honesty of some purchasers.

Many of us could sit here all day and write stories of what we have been told by other breeders let alone what happens to us. Most breeders are not protecting blood lines they are doing their best to protect the puppy.

[Jed]

Yep, if someone genuinely wants to show and breed, welcome to the pick of the litter. Last time I sold one to breed and show, it cleaned up. Others in the breed thought I was a bit simple to sell it, or I didn't realise it was any good. Not true. Why should others not do well with my stock? Let them do the work and bear the expense, I will take the kudos, thanks.

And then there was the woman wanting a bitch on main --- so she could breed one litter so she could keep a pet and give one to her sick sil. She already had a bitch, alas, not registered, and she wouldn't breed with that. there was only 1 pup remaining, not breeding quality. I finally gave in, sold it to her on MR, and then learned she did have 1 bitch, and another 20 odd. Now she is a big time CCCQ accredited breeder, churning out 3 - 6 litters a month.

How does that widen the gene pool?

Luckily, she sold the one she got from me to a real pet home.

There are less than few enquiries from genuine people wanting to show and breed. You can use as much imp semen from magnificent dogs o/s and not get one call from a new person wanting to enter dogs, and not one from any existing breeders either, they want to continue with their own lines.

CCCQ has missed the boat.

[WreckitWhippet]

.....

However, in those days, every fourth person who wanted a pup didn't want to make lots of bucks studding their second rate dog, or breeding 10 litters out of their bitch to recoup the purchase price.

Perhaps it varies by breed, but I think this is a gross exaggeration.

When I lived in WA I registered around 100 pups. I was entirely consistent. If people wanted main register, I agreed to switch after the dog or bitch was evaluated at 1 year. If hips and elbows were above breed average and eye tests ok, and the dog didn't look awful, I would grant main register. Only TWO of the pups I sold, one bitch and one dog, were switched to Main, and the dog was only used at stud twice. The bitch went on to establish a line that some would call BYB pups -- no showing, but not bad looking dogs and decent healthy pets -- I have no problem with that.

When I bred my first litter, in 2005, pedigree Labrador pups were going for $600 in the Perth metro area. Now they are going for $1800. This would not be happening if a large number of people were trying to recoup the purchase price.

If there's a choice between retaining genetic diversity, by breeding from stock who are not the type-of-the-year or whose owners are not interested in showing, or restricting breeding to the creme de la creme, I know where I'm going to cast my vote.

p.s. I had more problems in the opposite direction. There were a few dogs I would have loved to see the owners keep entire so they might have been used at stud. But no, most puppy buyers want to desex.

Of course it was an exaggeration!! However, if you breed a breed beloved of puppy farmerS, many of the enquiries are not from people wanting pets, they are from people wanting to breed, but they don't want to tell you that, nor do they want you to mentor them; they want to continue their dodgy ways, with the pup you sold them and they wanted the papers because they can get more for the pups if they are registered. There was a lovely lady with a little boy going around looking for a pet for him. She bought 7 altogether.

What a lucky little boy he is.

Are you sure none of your Labradors are not in dodgy breeding establishments, Sandgrubber? How do you know?

I haven't got a problem with genuine people buying my pups and breeding them.

Sadly, there are very few genuine people out there wanting to breed to improve the breed. I received 86 emails for the last litter I advertised, all seeking pets (or so they said). When I said the pups were not for breeding, the interest reduced drastically.

I don't think selling a pup to a 200 dog puppy farm does anything to widen the gene pool.

Nor does allowing them to end up in the hands of someone who breeds unregistered pets. Any value the animal may have had in regards to the contribution to the gene pool is lost forever.

The gene pools of many breeds have been raped by the BYBer and puppy farmer, who essentially contribute nothing. Just as bad are those ANKC breeders who produce pets with the attitude of near enough is good enough, so long as it looks like an ok example of the breed.

[Steve]

Well Kindee ANKC registered breeder - busted as a puppy farm - had around 300 dogs certainly added to the gene pool. Lots and lots of people in the breed not only bought her dogs but also showed them with much success and bred them a lot. Her dogs are very well represented still in many pedigrees in the breeds she owned and bred the terrible poodle lady from Queensland also contributed A LOT to the breed both here and internationally. Hard to argue she didnt add to the gene pool when so many went on to championships and breeding. The person who may breed a litter or two from their main registered bitch without showing her and registers the puppies may not do wondrous things for a breed but they don't do much harm either especially if the person who sells them their main register bitch is careful about giving them a bitch which wont do any harm to the breed and is open to allowing them to use a good stud dog.

[Mystiqview]

Even if the rule is pushed through and near all and sundry can get a MR dog from QLD breeders. It is not going to stop those who just want to make a buck from an entire dog. If the person does not want to spend the money ($133 application fee) and time getting a prefix then spending a further $109 per year on single membership with prefix maintenance (until they up the fees next year again) then a further $40/pup for litter registration and do it correctly and responsibly then they won't.

If they only want to breed "family pets" they will. What register the dog is on doesn't really matter nor play in influence. Placing more dogs on the MR is not going to automatically make these group of people suddenly decide to spend more money on becoming an ANKC Registered breeder.

The problem is, many don't when they can still get $500 - $800 for a puppy from "pedigree parents with papers" (Whether they be main or limit) and not have the further expense of membership for what?? A $40 certificate saying your pup is pedigree??

Most pet people don't really care about that piece of paper. Many pet people don't think the paper is REALLY WORTH anything USEFUL! I often get asked "how much for unregistered/unpapered" - they just don't get it is only $40 to register a pup - they seem to think the "pedigree" certificate is hundreds of dollars. It is not more in QLD to place on Main or Limit. We can register straight into the new owner's name. We don't have to pay an extra Litter Registration fee as in Western Australia.

If the pet person is genuine and really only wants a loving family pet - they are going to desex it anyway. It won't open up the gene pool any more just as much as if it was sold on the LR.

What it will do is increase those who do breed for the fad pet market and who are registered gain access to better quality dogs. Are they going to automatically start to REALLY improve their breeding program to breed better animals, enter into showing, sports etc - especially if they are not doing it now or even doing the health testing etc now? Of course not!! They will cash in on the large kennel prefix's saying they have "XYZ" Champion lines as they do now - does not matter the the XYZ Champion was 5 generations ago.

And how will this go with Southern Stud dog owners - will QLD breeders then have access to the same quality studs if to abide by QLD rules we have to put everything on MR and open it up to the "registered" dodgy ANKC breeders.

Times have changed. Like it or not. If people were not so keen to make a quick buck - we would not be in this position. It would be as it was 20 years ago. Old breeders mentoring young ones and encouraging them into the sport and teaching them the lines/genetics etc. It also comes down to a supply vs demand. IF the pet people are willing to fork out stupid sums of money for dogs, then the breeder will cater and supply the market at the inflated prices.

[sandgrubber]

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<br>.....<br> However, in those days, every fourth person who wanted a pup didn't want to make lots of bucks studding their second rate dog, or breeding 10 litters out of their bitch to recoup the purchase price.<br>

<br>Perhaps it varies by breed, but I think this is a gross exaggeration. <br>When I lived in WA I registered around 100 pups.  I was entirely consistent.  If people wanted main register, I agreed to switch after the dog or bitch was evaluated at 1 year.  If hips and elbows were above breed average and eye tests ok, and the dog didn't look awful, I would grant main register.  Only TWO of the pups I sold, one bitch and one dog, were switched to Main, and the dog was only used at stud twice.  The bitch went on to establish a line that some would call BYB pups -- no showing, but not bad looking dogs and decent healthy pets -- I have no problem with that.  <br>When I bred my first litter, in 2005, pedigree Labrador pups were going for $600 in the Perth metro area.  Now they are going for $1800.  This would not be happening if a large number of people were trying to recoup the purchase price.<br>If there's a choice between retaining genetic diversity, by breeding from stock who are not the type-of-the-year or whose owners are not interested in showing, or restricting breeding to the creme de la creme, I know where I'm going to cast my vote.<br><br>p.s. I had more problems in the opposite direction.  There were a few dogs I would have loved to see the owners keep entire so they might have been used at stud.  But no, most puppy buyers want to desex.<br>

<br><br>Of course it was an exaggeration!!  However, if you breed a breed beloved of puppy farmerS, many of the enquiries are not from people wanting pets, they are from people wanting to breed, but they don't want to tell you that, nor do they want you to mentor them; they want to continue their dodgy ways, with the pup you sold them and they wanted the papers because they can get more for the pups if they are registered. There was a lovely lady with a little boy going around looking for a pet for him.  She bought  7 altogether.  <br><br>What a lucky little boy he is.<br><br>Are you sure none of your Labradors are not in dodgy breeding establishments, Sandgrubber?  How do you know?<br><br>I haven't got a problem with genuine people buying my pups and breeding them.  <br><br>Sadly, there are very few genuine people out there wanting to breed to improve the breed.  I received 86 emails for the last litter I advertised, all seeking pets (or so  they said).  When I said the pups were not for breeding, the interest reduced drastically.<br><br>I don't think selling a pup to a 200 dog puppy farm does anything to widen the gene pool.<br>

<br><br><br><br>Now Aint that the truth.!!!!!.<br><br>It happens here a lot of the time and the new so called PET purchases soon disappear when told pets only leave here de sexed.<br>As so many of us say......it has nothing to do with what register they are put on.  It is more to do with the lack of honesty of some purchasers.<br><br>Many of us could sit here all day and write stories of what we have been told by other breeders let alone what happens to us.   Most breeders are not protecting blood lines they are doing their best to protect the puppy.<br>

<br><br><br>I<b> don't have</b> a breed beloved by puppy farmers and began my post with a statement that this may vary by breed.  If I had Frenchies or Bostons or miniature poodles, I might see things differently.<br>I've heard a lot about protecting bloodlines in DOL posts over the years, and heard many complaints from newbies about the difficulty of buying a quality bitch or dog on Main register.  It's not like there's an explosion of people looking to become new registered breeders.  Difficulty of getting started is one of many factors contributing to the decline of pedigree dogs, and protection of lines is one factor weighing in on the side of narrowing gene pools and pushing the norm of various breeds to the most typey examples of the day.<br>As for whether some of my dogs were in dodgy breeding establishments, if there were dodgy mass breeders of Labradors in WA, it would be well known in Labrador circles.  You'd be insane to look to WA for breeding stock for a puppy farm when the abundance and diversity of pups available is so much higher over East.  It's possible that someone has chosen to have a litter from a much beloved girl, off-pedigree.  (I know one puppy buyer produces a Lab x kelpie litter by accident).  So what?  I see no threat to the breed.<br>I think conversation would be more productive if breed-specific frustrations were labelled as such.  If there are demonstrable problems with some breeds, perhaps DQ would be willing to make exceptions.  Or perhaps the clubs for the breeds involved could have a serious look at their health requirements and write them in a way that denies breeding unless requirements are met.<br>Main vs Limited only deters breeders who care about selling registered pups.  It doesn't hinder the DD segment of the puppy farm industry, or those selling pups without pedigrees.<br>Because some breeds suffer from predation by unscrupulous breeders does not mean all breeds should be encouraged to limit their populations of pedigree breeding dogs.  If decisions are to be made to remove some dogs from the breeding population, I think it preferable that those decisions be made when the dog approaches adulthood and both conformation and health problems are more apparent.  <br><br><br>p.s. I don't think the UK has made a distinction between Main and Limited Register.  Is that true?  Has it caused problems? And I think the Scandinavians tend in the opposite direction, to limiting the number of times an individual dog can be used and requiring paperwork before desexing, with the intent of preserving diversity.  At least in my breed, there are some lovely dogs coming out of Sweden and Finland these days.

<div><br></div><div>p.p.s. If I were a dodgy mass breeder I'd fight tooth and nail to keep highly restrictive registries.  Limiting supply and increasing the exclusivity of your product is a great way to improve profit margins.  And lets not kid ourselves, there are some rotten apples among registered, show-winning breeders, including even judges.</div>

Edited March 5, 2014 by sandgrubber

[marina]

Restricting the limit register will help the breeds but some kind of requirement for people wanting to breed said dogs needs to be established confirming health stats and conformation requirements. This needs to be done by Dogs Qld with a pass required before breeding with any pedigree dog. I won't hold my breath though :)

[Possumeyes]

I unfortuantely think restricting the LR will only mean more breeders desex their pups before they go to new homes. There are already a number of breeders that I know of doing this. So yes they go on Main Register but they cant be bred from registered or not.

DOgs Qld need to approach this differently ... numbers are dropping not becuase breeders wont sell but becuase the show world is no long fun its a win at all cost caper. I dont need to purchase a dog (have several "pets" of my own) how ever i regularly choose not to enter shows as I can mark the catalogue before i turn up so why waste the money. Yes its a cynical view but its honest ... the numbers will not increase until people treat it like a hobby to be enjoyed and not a competition for sheep stations.

I will sell on main and have done but when a new potentional show person turns up and views my litter and says they wont be good enough I get a bit upset. Thankfully the pup found a wonderful home and is doing relatively well in the ring.

LR is the least of QLD's problems and there are far greater issues that need to be addressed.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Possumeyes

[Mystiqview]

I unfortuantely think restricting the LR will only mean more breeders desex their pups before they go to new homes. There are already a number of breeders that I know of doing this. So yes they go on Main Register but they cant be bred from registered or not.

DOgs Qld need to approach this differently ... numbers are dropping not becuase breeders wont sell but becuase the show world is no long fun its a win at all cost caper. I dont need to purchase a dog (have several "pets" of my own) how ever i regularly choose not to enter shows as I can mark the catalogue before i turn up so why waste the money. Yes its a cynical view but its honest ... the numbers will not increase until people treat it like a hobby to be enjoyed and not a competition for sheep stations.

I will sell on main and have done but when a new potentional show person turns up and views my litter and says they wont be good enough I get a bit upset. Thankfully the pup found a wonderful home and is doing relatively well in the ring.

LR is the least of QLD's problems and there are far greater issues that need to be addressed.

Here here!!!

I used to show. I walked away 18 months ago. Too many who thinks a judge is an idiot just because they did not put up their dog - even if their dog did not perform on the day. It's a hobby and supposed to be fun. It's turned into a dog eat dog world where some go to all lengths to just get that win. Then a dog is no good unless it has a CH infront of its name. Yet if you are prepared to travel you can get that important CH for showing up with the only dog there by collecting 6 point show up money. (Rare breed excluded but for popular breeds, yes). Then even for a rare breed, you can still get a 6 point CH on an inferior dog, just because it is the only one there, not because it is necessarily a rare breed.

The attitude for breeding has changed. Too many now just want to make a quick buck. Local councils are toughening up their rules, looking at people breeding who are not CCC members. Once upon a time CCC breeders used to have a decent name for breeding quality dogs. Even despite some recent shows painting a different picture. With the spotlight on BYB and puppy farmers, I think the some BYB's now are turning to CCC membership to get "respectable" even though some actions are far from respectable. Their traits have not changed, they are now just "registered" breeders on paper.

[Christina]

What it will do is increase those who do breed for the fad pet market and who are registered gain access to better quality dogs. Are they going to automatically start to REALLY improve their breeding program to breed better animals, enter into showing, sports etc - especially if they are not doing it now or even doing the health testing etc now? Of course not!!

This annoys me somewhat. Don't pet people deserve a decent, healthy as possible, quality dog that looks like the breed should & whose health history is known & tested ?

One doesn't have to do sports or show to have good knowledge & breed quality dogs. One must however take an interest, study, research & go to shows even as a spectator to know their breed.

I learned more about the conformation of poodles by working in a groomers & seeing so many wet, shaved & feeling them than I would ever do at a show where they have tons of coat,specifically shaped, that can disguise many faults.

My breed aren't ideally suited for sport & I don't enjoy showing them. I have done.

The weather, the coat, the long traveling & they are much happier in a nice pet clip too.

For my breed particularly a title may not mean a great dog but it does mean a great effort. I see so many bad & wrong poodles on main registration. Long bodies, short legs, short muzzles, wide faces, big round eyes& the dreaded luxating patella.

Pet people deserve good dogs too & if they are limited register it doesn't mean the breeder is an idiot.

I would never breed a dog like the pet I had 20 years ago & it was that poor darling disaster that made me determined to learn & breed better. I love poodles.

I do show my cats in indoor venues with suitable heating or cooling according to weather & in their comfortable coat.

I have no interest in adding to the gene pool of oodles, noodles, schnoodles shitty poos or whatever the current anything goes trend is so I am a bad breeder & desex pups & limited register.

Rant over.

[Mystiqview]

Christina

Cccq seem to think that everyone selling on MR will increase numbers in the show ring. This is not necessarily going to happen.

Those who breed bad dogs now and have bad practices now are not automatically going to improve their habits if the number of eligible MR dogs start to come into the market.

The choice to breed responsibility is a conscious choice by the individual. Not just the quality of the dogs being used.

Those who take shortcuts to make money will not necessarily change their attitude.

Every breed have their great breeders and bad apples. Those who do great work I am sure will continue to

do so