When To Reward

[skinnygurl]

Hello

We have a 16week old mini schnauzer and we have started basic obedience training at home. He is our first dog.

Felix can sit, stay and down mostly at low to mid distractions (he is the only dog at home). What I would like to know is when do I start weaning off the food reward for the dog? I notice that when I have a treat he will nearly almost obey instantly when he knows I have it, but otherwise can take 20-30 seconds to obey. Sometimes instantly but mostly seems like he needs to 'process' it.

Is this because I have not made the word association well enough? Or possibly I have been overtreating so he doesn't do it without treats? Or do pups just need a few seconds to "think"?

Your reply is greatly appreciated to help us get on the right track!

[persephone]

:)

I don't use food rewards - but will suggest you have a look at this youtube video and others in teh series - I like the way she works!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PRT6r6d79OU&list=PLF26FD559887E7EA4

[huski]

These kinds of problems usually happen when you've let your dog learn the sight of the treats, treat pouch etc is part of the command sequence. Don't let your dog see you have treats before giving a command - have them in your pocket, have your treat pouch behind you never in front or to your side, or have the treats in a container on the bench and run over to the container to give your dog a treat once they do the right thing. Don't have the treat in your hand when you are giving the command.

Most people train sit, down etc by luring the dog with food which can quickly make the dog think the sight of food is part of the command sequence. If you use a lure to train behaviours make sure you fade it as fast as you can.

I personally never fade rewards from my training entirely, but if you work on eliminating the sight of the food reward as a part of the command sequence you will have a dog that will comply with a command whether you have food or not :)

[apocalypsepwnie]

Research a clicker.

I have started randomly giving treats with Vinnie and he is 13 weeks. I have the treats in my pocket and will get some in my hand when he isn't looking.

However he has learned the hand motions for me having a treat in my hand as part of the command. This isn't terrible as he will now sit and come by me using that hand action. He could never see the treat, just the way my hand was. I was shown to get the dog to do the command by hovering the treats to make him move so he could smell and not see.

So for example 'sit' is my hand in a duck head shape. 'Come' is my hand in the same shape upsidedown palm up. 'Down' is my hand in a duck head shape moving to the floor so he sits first and then lays down. 'Stay' is a stop signal hand with my thumb and forfinger together.

My treats are cut up tiny though lol.

[skinnygurl]

Thank you for your replies! I stopped using the treat bag and kept the treats in my pocket and had more success. However, still not 100% compliance all the time... I'm sure he knows the commands though! Just the basic sits, down & stay... kinda working on heel and loose leash walking atm but my confidence to train has taken a dive.

Felix is so excitable when we walk out the front door, I might as well not exist. Might need to get tastier treats?

Also, generally recommended to train the dog in short multiple sessions during the day. What about the times in between 'sessions' when we are just chilling and the dog is running around and needs to be told what to do? Do I reward when he obeys or just praise?

[apocalypsepwnie]

If he is really excitable when you go to walk, wait until he has calmed down before leaving. If he leaves the house excited he'll stay in that mind set.

Dogs can also worm their way into misbehaving on purpose so you'll treat them when they stop.

I just use praise for when I need him to do things during the day/night. Praise is still a reward.

[raineth]

Thank you for your replies! I stopped using the treat bag and kept the treats in my pocket and had more success. However, still not 100% compliance all the time... I'm sure he knows the commands though! Just the basic sits, down & stay... kinda working on heel and loose leash walking atm but my confidence to train has taken a dive.

Felix is so excitable when we walk out the front door, I might as well not exist. Might need to get tastier treats?

Also, generally recommended to train the dog in short multiple sessions during the day. What about the times in between 'sessions' when we are just chilling and the dog is running around and needs to be told what to do? Do I reward when he obeys or just praise?

Dogs are very cued to context, so you need to make sure you are training in different contexts. Otherwise he might literally not understand the command to sit, for example, because you are asking it in a different context. As Huski said, having treats on you can be part of that context.

While you do want your rewards to be very valuable to him, in some cases you may be better asking less of him rather than using higher value treats. Sometimes things are just too much to ask of them straight away and you are better working towards the goal. Your best bet may be to think of an incompatible behaviour, perhaps lying on his bed. Then you need to train it like you would any other command, until you get to the point where he will stay on his bed for duration even in high distractions (such as you getting ready for a walk).

Not all training is about 'sit' and 'stay' and 'shake paws'. Training is also about being a well behaved dog in the house, so train it like you would any other behaviour.

Except I would also say, that one of the best ways to teach good house behaviour is to continuously catch him being a good boy and reward that behaviour. You can do this with attention, praise and cuddles - if your dog likes that. Not all dogs care much for praise and body contact. I find it is best to use these forms of rewards for calmer behaviour, as you can deliver these rewards in a calm way and thus not excite the puppy out of the calm behaviour you were rewarding it for :laugh:

But if you know there are specific things, or times of day that are going to rile him up and cause some of that undesirable behaviour, then that is when you really need to step in and properly train him to do what you want him to do; or to set your schedule up to compensate. So if you notice he is always playful at 5pm, then take him outside and play with him at that time before bringing him back in and expecting good behaviour :)

Or if you know that every time you get the broom out he wants to attack it, then teach him an alternate behaviour :)