Pinchy Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm after some advice on the right type of collar or harness for my eleven week old border collie. Right now we are doing some lead work and I have just a flat collar. Pup pulls and chews the lead and jumps and tries to run in all directions and I'm feeling like the collar is not really suitable. I don't want to hurt him when I stop when he pulls or when I'm trying to hold him back from jumping for example. I have seen heaps of people around with the harness types. Would these be ok for me? Are they adjustable for while he is growing? Is there anything else I can use that is better? He is great - super mouthy at the moment which we are working on (i have many holes in my hands and feet from needle teeth)! He is very food motivated which is good but he is quite strong willed. We start puppy class this week :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) You can always give a harness ago. My pup walked on a harness and still does sometimes. They are adjustable, but he will still grow out of them quickly and are more expensive to be replaced than collars. I would recommend you leave the collar on him during the walk too, just so he gets used to it. If he is really bad at chewing on the lead you could go get a light weight chain leash, they don't like chewing on those so you could use that until he stops. When you are walking (he's only 11 weeks, so 15 minutes MAX a day), get a training bag or bum bag and fill it with lots of nice soft treats like tiny pieces of chopped cooked chicken. To begin with feed him right next to your leg every single step, keep the leash loose, extend it to every 2nd step sometimes, then mix it up a bit. When he pulls stop dead in your tracks, wait for him to stop, continue walking and reward again when he is next to you with a loose leash. You won't get very far on your walks for a while, but he will soon learn being nice on leash next to you gets rewarded and pulling gets him nowhere. It will get frustrating but if you stick to it is worth it. Edited February 7, 2014 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I would go for a good quality collar ..and LOTS of reading/research and help with training!!! Sounds like you and your pup are not communicating in the same language ;) harnesses have their place ... but IMO training a young pup isn't one of them. A puppy who is leaving holes in you, and chewing leashes etc is a puppy who has not yet been taught boundaries ..and , no matter if you are using a $100 harness, or a piece of string - it is what YOU are communicating to your pup which will change that :) Thefre are lots of things you can read to help you understand dog behaviour - which is what is needed to then help teach a pup . try some of these out - LINK LINK LINK LINK I suggest you buy a strong , but fine chain leash (a proper leash, with handle, etc) ..pups don't chew them for long! I use them for leash training in the early stages. Chewing leads , behaving like yours does on lead, can be frustration . to US it looks like 'bad behaviour' - to a puppy it is a reaction to being controlled ..and having not much idea of what they are supposed to be doing - I hope 'puppy school' is a help in getting you to understand why puppy is doing what they are doing :) LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 don't give in to puppy tantrums already, it's a slippery slope. Nice soft flat collar and a leash is all you need, and time and patience. Start in your front yard, stand still and call puppy to you, treat from your face level and have pup always look you in the face to get a reward. You need to teach focus, no equipment will help you with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Yep! What Persephone and Nekhbet said. BC person here - and trust me, you want to spend a lot of time teaching them - in a kind way - that there are boundaries they need to respect. They don't come knowing what's acceptable to us - it's our job to show them what we would like. A good way to think about it is .. for everything the pup is doing that you don't like - how can you pretty much straight away show the pup an acceptable behaviour .. so chewing me is not Ok - here - chew this ... (milk carton/cardboard tube/chew toy) ... instead - .. having a bit of a game with the chew object so that pup 'gets' that this is more fun. Means you need to have chew objects that you're happy with, within arm's reach just about everywhere you go. :laugh: But it's only for a few weeks, usually, if you get your timing right. But you have to be consistent about it. It's better to spend time at this stage teaching the pup, rather than thinking "must take the dog for a walk". Time spent teaching now will make the walks enjoyable later - and the brain work involved in the pup figuring out what you're teaching, will make for a contented tired pup much more than pulling you round the block. Again, it's consistency - the message to the pup always is .. if you pull, you don't get to go where you want to go. The best thing I find is to just change direction - no prompting to the pup, just turn and walk purposefully in a different direction - but be ready as the leash slackens, to mark the slackening and reward the pup for paying attention to the fact that you changed direction. Rinse and repeat. Most pups like this game if you do it with enough energy and you're quick to mark when the leash slackens - BCs in particular like the random movement. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Stick with the collar and get a lead made out of lightweight chain, not nearly as fun to chew on so pup will eventually give up :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Collar and TRAINING. I have no idea what the attraction is with harnesses You have no control over the dogs head, half the time dogs seem to be pulling like a train on them and in combination with a flexi-lead, it positively encourages pulling. With a longer coated dog, they will wear the coat. Harnesses are difficult to fit well and many of the more popular brand restrict a dog's movement. They shouldn't be left on dogs in offlead areas or when unsupervised but people do both. I'd strongly recommend some good training classes where you can teach your pup to walk on a loose lead - the earlier that lesson is learned, the better for both of you. Edited February 8, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Stick with a collar and lead at that age. And as everyone else has said lots of training!!! I use front attach harnesses on my BC's, but I don't use them til they are around 6 months old and only if needed. I need to use them when I walk the 2 of them together - they just have too much strength combined when we head out on a walk. When I walk them separately I don't need to use them so they just walk on a flat collar (and yes, it is my laziness in training them to walk nicely together on flat collars!). Mind you even when walking together probably 1/2 way through our walks I could take them off their harnesses as they are more in to the "zone"!! I don't think harnesses are an automatic answer, but they are a tool in the tool kit if and when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm not at all a fan of harnesses. They're fiddly and as others have said - don't actually give you that much extra control. Give me a flat collar any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinchy Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Thanks everybody for the replies. The chewing on the leash is not a huge issue, he does it only when he is in a silly mood. It's more the pulling and wanting to greet everyone and everything. I just thought a harness would stop him yrying to pull with his throat. More for his comfort than my control. I'll stick with the collar and find a chain leash this weekend. And just focus on some lead work a few times a day. The nipping and biting is actually really really frustrating me. He gets into a silly mood and starts to nip our feet and my hands and arms. I am treating calm behaviour, sitting, looking to me, on your mat, stay. But then he suddenly gets over it and gets silly and starts nipping and it bloody hurts. I usually ignore him. If it gets too much I pop him in another room for a few minutes to chill. Then we try again calmly. It's incredibly hard to stand still when he's gnawing on my ankles! Remember I have only had him for two weeks and I think he has learned heaps in this time. Maybe I am expecting too much. Though I admit the pulling and nipping are giving me trouble. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) I'll stick with the collar and find a chain leash this weekend. And just focus on some lead work a few times a day. Another tool I'm no fan of. Chain is uncomfortable in your hand and when you are teaching your dog to have no weight on the lead, they can't give you that 'weightless' feel you are going for. What happens if you ignore the leash antics? Edited February 8, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 a chain LEASH ..not just a bit of chain ... a nice smooth fine linked leash... is actually nice to use :) ..and I usually only have to use it a few times - just until pup discovers that chain is not nice to play with ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 You can get quite nice light weight chain leashes, they aren't really much heavier than a regular leash and I don't have a problem using them unless the dog is very averse to on leash walking and you are trying to desensitise them, in which case I go for something lighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinchy Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 He is not adverse to leash walking as such just wants to bound and investigate people or whatever. He's just really gung ho or stubborn/defiant. But not all the time. I feel like I'm painting a bad picture. If I ignore the leash antics he calms which is what I'm doing, then we step again and he bolts for something interesting. I think I am expecting him just to walk around with me ( yard/loungeroom etc.) I need to take more time with short steps I think. He just gets sick of the training quickly being so small and turns into a nip monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I would keep a close eye and end the training before he gets to the point of being silly, that way you are always ending on a high note and over time and with age he'll be able to concentrate longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinchy Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Thanks I'll try to keep the training really short and sweet:) Even first thing in the morning after a wee while we are getting coffee and hubby ready to go to work he has a silly nippy 15 minutes going after feet and work socks. Should I be putting him somewhere or giving him food/chew to distract him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 If you know that time is commonly a silly time I'd get to him before he goes silly and do something with him at that time like feed him breaky(spread it around so he has to find it and it takes longer) or if he has a nice spot he is being taught to be then put him there and give him something nice to chew on like a meaty bone for breaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Thanks I'll try to keep the training really short and sweet:) Even first thing in the morning after a wee while we are getting coffee and hubby ready to go to work he has a silly nippy 15 minutes going after feet and work socks. Should I be putting him somewhere or giving him food/chew to distract him? He's a puppy, first thing in the morning he is ready to go! I would have my morning coffee while baby pup is outside having his breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm a big fan of teaching dogs to have an 'off switch' and it's even more important with working breeds living in suburbia. My dogs know that everything good happens on their inside beds, they get fed there, they get treats there and if I tell them to get on their beds they are there in about 2 seconds flat, they love their beds and it's great to be able to switch them to calm mode when I need to. I also have a little fence I put around their beds so they know they stay in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 He's just really gung ho or stubborn/defiant. But not all the time. I feel like I'm painting a bad picture. He is untrained. What do you think he understands about being on lead beyond "I can't reach the things I want to because I'm attached to this thing"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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